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Re-Building year

I'd like to know the names of the Butler kids who were "stolen" from the BCS guys...
nope, all the best kids Butler has were nice jobs of recruiting the hidden gems, but they haven't been outrecruiting Indiana, Ohio State, and Notre Dame
 
SaintLouBrave22 said:
You have me extremely confused here because everything you said about Bradley minus the injuries is 100x better than at SIU...

They do play in Carbondale remember....in poor facilities including their arena which they apparently are trying to renovate (AGAIN)...

Be thankful to be .500?! I'm sorry but thats just not good enough!

Still has a program? You act as though basketball may be cut out of the budget...may I ask what reasoning you have for these comments?

Yes Creighton may be on a higher scale, but w/ a good coaching staff that can recruit, develop players, and win games (biggest of the 3), we should have no problem competing w/ Butler...

I do recall that Butler plays in a VERY old facility...so that isn't always the reason...

1) They have won lately and quite a bit at that

2) According to current results, they have a better coaching staff

3) They have simply outrecruited us...taking players we really wanted.

4) Yes they may be in a BIGGER market in Indy, but they are also grabbing players that at one point either went to Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, or Cincinnati....can we honestly say we're stealing players away from Illinois, Missouri, or DePaul....I really doubt that!

In their case, they have a good young head coach that could take them around the level Gonzaga was at a few years back.


Us, I would like to hope we get their eventually, but many things need to be re-evaluated and realized before that even has a chance of occuring...


But to say we should be lucky to have a .500 team is ridiculous and insulting to our university and our fan base:!:
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I think part of his post might have been in jest...
 
Scouter said:
Did I really just see two posts that partially blamed the local newspaper for Bradley's lack of success? You're kidding, right? :confused: This place has gone to the loony bin.
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I do not think they were blaming the local rag for the lack of success but it would be nice if they were a bit more positive about what BU could offer a recruit just maybe we could recruit more local kids. There's a few reason we are not getting the best recruits out of Peoria and the PJS is just not really helping us. If anything they are helping that big state funded school east of Peoria. I have though, seen a better tone and realistic reporting this year from them then in years past. I guess a lot of it has to do with the way the slammed us for the DR incident.

Our lack of success this year has more to do with injuries and the lack of a shooting game IMHO.
 
SFP said:
I do not think they were blaming the local rag for the lack of success but it would be nice if they were a bit more positive about what BU could offer a recruit just maybe we could recruit more local kids. There's a few reason we are not getting the best recruits out of Peoria and the PJS is just not really helping us. If anything they are helping that big state funded school east of Peoria. I have though, seen a better tone and realistic reporting this year from them then in years past. I guess a lot of it has to do with the way the slammed us for the DR incident.

Our lack of success this year has more to do with injuries and the lack of a shooting game IMHO.
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Unfortunately not everything can be colored in roses....


Just ask the Tribune and IL's governor ;-)
 
D.Reynolds just stole my article and without Warren and Egolf we are rebuilding as we have so many 1st year players. GTD, how can you compare our center to D.Moore who was all conference and led his team to the championship? He would be better compared to J.Baptist.
 
SFP said:
I do not think they were blaming the local rag for the lack of success but it would be nice if they were a bit more positive about what BU could offer a recruit just maybe we could recruit more local kids. There's a few reason we are not getting the best recruits out of Peoria and the PJS is just not really helping us. If anything they are helping that big state funded school east of Peoria. I have though, seen a better tone and realistic reporting this year from them then in years past. I guess a lot of it has to do with the way the slammed us for the DR incident.

Our lack of success this year has more to do with injuries and the lack of a shooting game IMHO.
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I just want to get a few things you mentioned in this post cleared up.

- You think the PJStar should be a PR rag for BU so it can get more local recruits.
- You think the PJStar IS a PR rag for ISU (or U of I).
- You think the PJStar has "a better tone and more realistic reporting" this year because a columnist formed an opinion about Daniel Ruffin's arrest.

OK ... I'd love some reasoning for how you came to those opinions.
 
tornado said:
I'd like to know the names of the Butler kids who were "stolen" from the BCS guys...
nope, all the best kids Butler has were nice jobs of recruiting the hidden gems, but they haven't been outrecruiting Indiana, Ohio State, and Notre Dame
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OK, Matt Howard for one...
Matt Howard was not a hidden gem.
He was a 4-star recruit.
He was #91 in the Rivals top 150 HS players in 2007.
He had offers from both Indiana and Purdue before committing to go to Butler.
 
Scouter I was just pointing out what I believed others were thinking and yes I believe the PJS should really think about a bit of loyalty to a local institution that does a hell of a lot of good things for the local community. Feeding into negativity in the long run does not help anyone. The PJS lambasted BU, JL and DR in that incident last year, they do cover the U of I so why did they not blast them for some of their transgressions as hard as they did ours? I'm just asking for equality on both sides of the plate.

I'm not sure if JL had a conversation with KW but his reporting is taking on a journalistic attitude, facts with the story then his usual throwing everything out there that feels like his opinion and grievance toward BU then anything else. Dave Reynold IMHO has always maintained a degree of decorum and impartiality that is refreshing. That is all I ever ask from reporters. State your claims with substantiated facts otherwise you look and feel like The Inquirer!
 
At Milwaukee on the floor for much of the second half were a 2 freshman guards, a sophomore guard, a first year juco, and a freshman 4 who was playing the 5 (TB). At this point I would call it a rebuilding year. It wasn't at the beginning of the year but we have been destroyed by injuries.

To the rest of the Valley:
Better get us while we are down this year, IMO for the next 3-4 years we are going to very dangerous. And hopefully angry.
 
SLB22 and Scouter,

You must not pay much attention to my posts, or maybe you don't get to read them before they are deleted. I should have put this :rolleyes: after my post.
 
braves12 said:
SLB22 and Scouter,

You must not pay much attention to my posts, or maybe you don't get to read them before they are deleted. I should have put this :rolleyes: after my post.
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Unfortunately B12 you may have to because many ppl who state the same things are being 110% serious about it...
 
Rusty 54 said:
At Milwaukee on the floor for much of the second half were a 2 freshman guards, a sophomore guard, a first year juco, and a freshman 4 who was playing the 5 (TB). At this point I would call it a rebuilding year. It wasn't at the beginning of the year but we have been destroyed by injuries.
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True, but at some point you must consider that maybe those players are on the floor because they were the best players Rusty...

They gave us the best chance of hanging in the game and making a comeback...which at one point was down to 6 before we brought Collins back...although I'm pretty sure that lineup at the time was McCain, Maniscalco, Dunson, Wilson, Brown...

Even w/ Egolf playing before his injury and playing well he is only a Soph.

We do in fact have a very young team, but I myself don't find a problem with that because young teams with talent can compete as well as anyone else...

I've said it before and I will say it again...give me a good Freshman player over a great JuCo player any day and I could develop him into a star...give me a Freshman with talent and the ability to adapt well over a returning player that could be a role player at best...thats what we seem to have right now...

And it would only help this team in the future to get our younger guys plenty of minutes and have guys like Dodie and Sammy lead this team because they will both be back next year and hopefully this season will be progress towards the main goal next season, and that is to finally win a MVC title under Jim Les...

We will certainly have the talent to do it...and next season I'd love to have the opportunity to see a fresh Will start at the beginning of the season and see him get some time next to AT, Milos, and Prosser...which is why we should go to a more traditional motion offense next season...we will have the bigs to bang the glass.

The real simple question will be whether we can combine the talent we have with the coaching staff and mesh things to work.
 
SaintLouBrave22 said:
True, but at some point you must consider that maybe those players are on the floor because they were the best players Rusty...

We do in fact have a very young team, but I myself don't find a problem with that because young teams with talent can compete as well as anyone else...
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I agree, i think that our young guys are the best players we have available. But that is also why I would consider this a rebuilding year.

To you other point, I think that it has become clear that our young team cannot compete as well as some of the teams we play. We got rung up by Butler at home. I dont think our young guys are as talented at this point as their's. We got beat badly on the road to UWM, so I dont think our team is as talented as their's is at this point. This doesn't mean I don't love and support our team, but that I might need to adjust my expectations for this season.

I discovered something that surprised me at the Milwaukee game. Their program has had considerably more success then ours since 2002. They have won the Horizon Tournament 3 times and have made it to the Sweet Sixteen. I'm not sure about how many 20 win seasons they have had or their success in the NIT (and we have the CBI) in comparison to us, but I guess I was under the impression that we were a better program then UWM recently and I guess I was wrong. We do have a lot more fan support if that game is any indication, so thats to our credit. And we are not even close to Butler's level of success. I hope that as our young guys develop, we can start winning some titles and getting some more championship banners of our own. I believe we can and that Les is the coach to get us there.
 
Rusty 54 said:
I agree, i think that our young guys are the best players we have available. But that is also why I would consider this a rebuilding year.

To you other point, I think that it has become clear that our young team cannot compete as well as some of the teams we play. We got rung up by Butler at home. I dont think our young guys are as talented at this point as their's. We got beat badly on the road to UWM, so I dont think our team is as talented as their's is at this point. This doesn't mean I don't love and support our team, but that I might need to adjust my expectations for this season.

I discovered something that surprised me at the Milwaukee game. Their program has had considerably more success then ours since 2002. They have won the Horizon Tournament 3 times and have made it to the Sweet Sixteen. I'm not sure about how many 20 win seasons they have had or their success in the NIT (and we have the CBI) in comparison to us, but I guess I was under the impression that we were a better program then UWM recently and I guess I was wrong. We do have a lot more fan support if that game is any indication, so thats to our credit. And we are not even close to Butler's level of success. I hope that as our young guys develop, we can start winning some titles and getting some more championship banners of our own. I believe we can and that Les is the coach to get us there.
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Rusty, you also have to remember they had Bruce Pearl until recently....Jim Les is certainly no Bruce Pearl from a coaching standpoint...

Also, I don't really truly believe that Butler has much more talent than we do...they just seem to utilize their talent better and play better as a team....something that I have fully noticed that we have lacked consistently since 1/4 of a season during the Sweet 16 run...

We don't coach team ball and we don't play team ball...and obviously Butler has been smart enough to tweak the nuances of their team to the strengths of the players they have, not the players they wish they had...just look at the difference in style of offense from when they had Graves and Green to what they have now in Mack and Howard and so on...they have changed things ever so slightly to attack through their strengths...

Certainly that is something we should take notice of...

Playing the right style of offense suited to "this" team and not jacking up 30 3's a game, playing a more team oriented dribble less pass more offense, and most of all, playing the "right" players...we shouldn't be in a rebuilding mode...

As I stated before, Butler's players are just as young as we are...they aren't rebuilding are they? We should be able to take exactly what I wrote in the previous paragraph, apply, and repeat...its not over until we have exhausted all ways to fix this mess...and as has been said....we've only just begun.
 
Rusty 54 said:
I discovered something that surprised me at the Milwaukee game. Their program has had considerably more success then ours since 2002. They have won the Horizon Tournament 3 times and have made it to the Sweet Sixteen..
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If you dissect most programs' history, there might be a segment of their history that could be parsed out and looks great. UWM had basically 4 very good seasons when Pearl was there (from '02-'03 to '05-'06). '03, '05, and '06 are the only 3 times in their school's history they have made the NCAA. Other than that, they have had an awful lot of losing years.
 
SaintLouBrave22 said:
Rusty, you also have to remember they had Bruce Pearl until recently....Jim Les is certainly no Bruce Pearl from a coaching standpoint...

Also, I don't really truly believe that Butler has much more talent than we do...they just seem to utilize their talent better and play better as a team....something that I have fully noticed that we have lacked consistently since 1/4 of a season during the Sweet 16 run...

We don't coach team ball and we don't play team ball...and obviously Butler has been smart enough to tweak the nuances of their team to the strengths of the players they have, not the players they wish they had...just look at the difference in style of offense from when they had Graves and Green to what they have now in Mack and Howard and so on...they have changed things ever so slightly to attack through their strengths...

Certainly that is something we should take notice of...

Playing the right style of offense suited to "this" team and not jacking up 30 3's a game, playing a more team oriented dribble less pass more offense, and most of all, playing the "right" players...we shouldn't be in a rebuilding mode...

As I stated before, Butler's players are just as young as we are...they aren't rebuilding are they? We should be able to take exactly what I wrote in the previous paragraph, apply, and repeat...its not over until we have exhausted all ways to fix this mess...and as has been said....we've only just begun.
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I agree with most of the points, but I do think our coaches attempt to play "team ball." A very difficult to (properly) execute or confusing team ball which results in the other problems because our coaches cannot properly teach their system...
For instance, we use the whole team to set screens (bigs) penetrate and try to kick out to the remaining open man for 3, and our defence breaks down when one guy misses an assignment..
 
ph said:
I agree with most of the points, but I do think our coaches attempt to play "team ball." A very difficult to (properly) execute or confusing team ball which results in the other problems because our coaches cannot properly teach their system...
For instance, we use the whole team to set screens (bigs) penetrate and try to kick out to the remaining open man for 3, and our defence breaks down when one guy misses an assignment..
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You explained the defense quite well there as yes, there is no reason whatsoever Collins should ever wander out past the FT lane...

What you didn't explain is how they've made our offense so bad this year as we just don't have the personnel to run the weave, screen and roll, or any other method to get 3-pt shots...simply put, we just don't have the players (i.e shooters) to have the run n gun offense.
 
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