FarmerClone
New member
Missouri State is being rumored to have been extended an invite to CUSA. Basketball now and football in a few years. Anyone think it will happen?
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MVC losing a team?
- Thread starter FarmerClone
- Start date
The rumor was tweeted by an incoming freshman...which was then deleted and followed up with: “Me and another teammate read it off somewhere, so (I don’t know).”
Sorry, it may be possible, but I'm not believing Shayok, Hodges, Stewart, Crawford or Wells on things in that light regarding BU either.
AD also (quickly) posted a full denial.
http://blogs.news-leader.com/msu/2011/06/21/moats-no-truth-to-msu-to-conference-usa-rumors/
But who knows, it could happen. Wouldnt bother me...
Sorry, it may be possible, but I'm not believing Shayok, Hodges, Stewart, Crawford or Wells on things in that light regarding BU either.
AD also (quickly) posted a full denial.
http://blogs.news-leader.com/msu/2011/06/21/moats-no-truth-to-msu-to-conference-usa-rumors/
But who knows, it could happen. Wouldnt bother me...
The Missouri Valley Conference was founded in 1907 by Drake, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa State, and Washington University (St. Louis, MO). There have been numerous changes in the collection of schools that have been in the MVC since then. Missouri State has been a member of the Missouri Valley Conference since the start of the 1990-1991 season. That means the MVC survived 83 years before Southwest Missouri State/Missouri State joined, and I am sure they will survive fine if they leave.
Actually, the last changes in the MVC were when Evansville joined in 1994-1995, and Tulsa left in 1995-1996. So we have gone 15 years without any changes in the teams in the MVC, so we are currently in the longest interval in the 104 year history of the MVC without a change.
Interesting note- Butler was actually a member of the MVC for two years, back in 1932-1933---1933-1934. DePaul has never been a member.
Here are all the teams that have ever been part of the MVC:
Drake (1907-08 season through 1950-51 season; 1956-57 season through present)
Tulsa (1934-35 --1995-96)
Wichita State (1945-46 -- present)
Bradley (1948-49 -- 1950-51; 1955-56 --present)
Creighton (1928-29 -- 1942-43;1944-45 -- 1947-48; 1976-77-- present)
Washington (Mo.) (1907-08 -- 1909-10; 1946-47)
Saint Louis (1937-38 -- 1942-43; 1944-45 -- 1973-74)
Oklahoma A&M (1925-26 -- 1956-57)
Southern Illinois (1974-75 -- present)
Indiana State (1976-77 -- present)
Grinnell (1918-19 -- 1938-39)
Iowa State (1907-08 -- 1927-28)
Kansas (1907-08 -- 1927-28)
Missouri (1907-08 -- 1927-28)
Nebraska (1907-08 -- 1918-19; 1920-21 -- 1927-28)
Illinois State (1980-81 -- present)
North Texas State (1957-58 -- 1974-75)
West Texas State (1970-71 -- 1985-86)
Kansas State (1913-14 --1927-28)
New Mexico State (1970-71 -- 1982-83)
Cincinnati (1957-58 -- 1969-70)
Louisville (1964-65 -- 1974-75)
Houston (1950-51 -- 1959-60)
Southwest Missouri State (1990-91 -- present)
Oklahoma (1919-20 -- 1927-28)
Detroit (1949-50 -- 1956-57)
Northern Iowa (1991-92 -- present)
Washburn (1934-35 --1940-41)
Memphis State (1967-68 -- 1972-73)
Evansville (1994-95 -- present)
Butler (1932-33 -- 1933-34)
Actually, the last changes in the MVC were when Evansville joined in 1994-1995, and Tulsa left in 1995-1996. So we have gone 15 years without any changes in the teams in the MVC, so we are currently in the longest interval in the 104 year history of the MVC without a change.
Interesting note- Butler was actually a member of the MVC for two years, back in 1932-1933---1933-1934. DePaul has never been a member.
Here are all the teams that have ever been part of the MVC:
Drake (1907-08 season through 1950-51 season; 1956-57 season through present)
Tulsa (1934-35 --1995-96)
Wichita State (1945-46 -- present)
Bradley (1948-49 -- 1950-51; 1955-56 --present)
Creighton (1928-29 -- 1942-43;1944-45 -- 1947-48; 1976-77-- present)
Washington (Mo.) (1907-08 -- 1909-10; 1946-47)
Saint Louis (1937-38 -- 1942-43; 1944-45 -- 1973-74)
Oklahoma A&M (1925-26 -- 1956-57)
Southern Illinois (1974-75 -- present)
Indiana State (1976-77 -- present)
Grinnell (1918-19 -- 1938-39)
Iowa State (1907-08 -- 1927-28)
Kansas (1907-08 -- 1927-28)
Missouri (1907-08 -- 1927-28)
Nebraska (1907-08 -- 1918-19; 1920-21 -- 1927-28)
Illinois State (1980-81 -- present)
North Texas State (1957-58 -- 1974-75)
West Texas State (1970-71 -- 1985-86)
Kansas State (1913-14 --1927-28)
New Mexico State (1970-71 -- 1982-83)
Cincinnati (1957-58 -- 1969-70)
Louisville (1964-65 -- 1974-75)
Houston (1950-51 -- 1959-60)
Southwest Missouri State (1990-91 -- present)
Oklahoma (1919-20 -- 1927-28)
Detroit (1949-50 -- 1956-57)
Northern Iowa (1991-92 -- present)
Washburn (1934-35 --1940-41)
Memphis State (1967-68 -- 1972-73)
Evansville (1994-95 -- present)
Butler (1932-33 -- 1933-34)
TheAsianSensation
New member
If Missouri St wanted FBS football, CUSA is the avenue to do it. It would definitely be a move predicated on football and not basketball.
But the basketball freshman's excitement over the potential conference change shows how much PR work the MVC needs to do to be relevant to young basketball recruits...
Let's see how things have worked for the last several schools that have left the MVC. I am considering mainly basketball in this analysis, but football considerations also played a part in their decisions to leave the MVC.-
Tulsa left after the 1995-1996 season and joined the WAC (Western Athletic Conference). That move was not considered a good move by most fans and followers of Tulsa. It resulted in a tremendous amount of travel and pitted Tulsa against mostly teams they had no natural or geographical rivalry with, since most of the WAC members were in the far west. However, Tulsa did win the conference twice in the 9 years they were members of the WAC, and made the NCAA 5 times. However, they eventually fell on hard times. The last 2 years in the WAC they finished in 9th place with 20 loss seasons.
In 2005 they moved to the Conference USA when the CUSA expanded. Since joining the CUSA, they have not won a conference championship, and have not made it back to the NCAA. Many Tulsa fans would like to see them back in the MVC.
West Texas State left the MVC after the 1985-1986 season. They are now known as West Texas A&M University. After they left the MVC, they really went downhill and all but disappeared. They eventually dropped to Division II NCAA athletics. They now compete in the D2 Lone Star Conference.
New Mexico State University left the MVC after the 1982-1983 season. They joined the Pacific Coast Athletic Conference, which changed it's name to the Big West in 1988. They remained in the PCAA/Big West from 1983-2000. They struggled the first 6 years, but then had success in the Big West in the 1990's, making the NCAA in 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, and 1999. After the 1999-2000 season, they moved to the Sunbelt Conference, which was universally acknowledged to be a big mistake. They were a thousand miles or more from most of the other Sunbelt member schools. Also, they struggled while in the Sunbelt, and never won consistently nor made the NCAA. They moved to the WAC after the 2004-2005 season. Again, they struggled initially in the WAC, but have made the NCAA twice in the last 5 years.
Other schools who left the MVC in the 1970's were St. Louis (left after 1973-74), and North Texas State (left after 1974-1975). St. Louis was part of the old Midwestern Cities Conference. St. Louis bounced around conferences, and recently has been a perennial doormat in the Atlantic 10 Conference. North Texas State has been a member of the Sun Belt Conference since 2001.
Both programs fell off significantly after leaving the MVC, and have never regained the prestige or respect they had as members of the MVC. In fact, it's likely that both would jump at the chance to get back into the MVC.
Tulsa left after the 1995-1996 season and joined the WAC (Western Athletic Conference). That move was not considered a good move by most fans and followers of Tulsa. It resulted in a tremendous amount of travel and pitted Tulsa against mostly teams they had no natural or geographical rivalry with, since most of the WAC members were in the far west. However, Tulsa did win the conference twice in the 9 years they were members of the WAC, and made the NCAA 5 times. However, they eventually fell on hard times. The last 2 years in the WAC they finished in 9th place with 20 loss seasons.
In 2005 they moved to the Conference USA when the CUSA expanded. Since joining the CUSA, they have not won a conference championship, and have not made it back to the NCAA. Many Tulsa fans would like to see them back in the MVC.
West Texas State left the MVC after the 1985-1986 season. They are now known as West Texas A&M University. After they left the MVC, they really went downhill and all but disappeared. They eventually dropped to Division II NCAA athletics. They now compete in the D2 Lone Star Conference.
New Mexico State University left the MVC after the 1982-1983 season. They joined the Pacific Coast Athletic Conference, which changed it's name to the Big West in 1988. They remained in the PCAA/Big West from 1983-2000. They struggled the first 6 years, but then had success in the Big West in the 1990's, making the NCAA in 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, and 1999. After the 1999-2000 season, they moved to the Sunbelt Conference, which was universally acknowledged to be a big mistake. They were a thousand miles or more from most of the other Sunbelt member schools. Also, they struggled while in the Sunbelt, and never won consistently nor made the NCAA. They moved to the WAC after the 2004-2005 season. Again, they struggled initially in the WAC, but have made the NCAA twice in the last 5 years.
Other schools who left the MVC in the 1970's were St. Louis (left after 1973-74), and North Texas State (left after 1974-1975). St. Louis was part of the old Midwestern Cities Conference. St. Louis bounced around conferences, and recently has been a perennial doormat in the Atlantic 10 Conference. North Texas State has been a member of the Sun Belt Conference since 2001.
Both programs fell off significantly after leaving the MVC, and have never regained the prestige or respect they had as members of the MVC. In fact, it's likely that both would jump at the chance to get back into the MVC.
AZ BU Fan
New member
Based on personal experience, I have to believe the MSU BB Frosh's enthusiasm for MSU adding big time football on campus would be the extra 7-8 weekends of partying on campus, road trip parties, homecoming parties, and the ability to go to a nice bowl site and party some more!
No need for MVC schools to add football, the Universities just need to plan more weekend parties during Aug, Sept, Oct and organize a southern/western warm weather state for another weekend of partying in late Dec/Jan!
sousaman2089
New member
DePaul would make more sense then Butler. How much of an improvement would the MVC be over the Horizon anyways? I don't think it would be enough for Butler to change.
But that would be interesting to see what team would come to the Valley.
But that would be interesting to see what team would come to the Valley.
TylerDurden
New member
Butler was very close to being in the MVC when the old MCC broke up.
Evansville ultimately got the invite.
Evansville ultimately got the invite.
The MVC is a very large step up, by any measure other than "teams that have appeared in the national championship."
Butler is not interested.
When they move, it'll be for a post Big East/A10 break-up redistribution.
There's no reason to do anything before that given they can stay in the Top 25 annually, as it is.
Anyway, the Horizon League, while not particularly good, has caught up to the Valley in men's basketball.
When they move, it'll be for a post Big East/A10 break-up redistribution.
There's no reason to do anything before that given they can stay in the Top 25 annually, as it is.
Anyway, the Horizon League, while not particularly good, has caught up to the Valley in men's basketball.
While what Butler has been able to accomplish recently has been great, I don??™t think you can say the Horizon League has caught up with the Valley at this point. Lets just take a look back at the last 8 years for conference RPI and conference SOS.
Horizon League
03-04 04-05 05-06 06-07 07-08 08-09 09-10 10-11
SOS-14th 18th 15th 12th 11th 12th 14th 11th
RPI-15th 20th 15th 12th 11th 12th 14th 11th
Missouri Valley
03-04 04-05 05-06 06-07 07-08 08-09 09-10 10-11
SOS-11th 8th 6th 6th 8th 8th 9th 12th
RPI-11th 8th 6th 6th 8th 9th 9th 12th
The Butler Bulldogs have been doing some Amazing things lately and the Horizon League has improved but it has NOT caught up to the Valley in my opinion.
TheAsianSensation
New member
This is correct.
This isn't correct, although it's closer than most posters here will want to admit.
tornado
New member
disagree -- if what you mean is that in their very best year they are on par with the Valley - then maybe you have an argument...
the MVC has placed a team in the Sweet Sixteen a half dozen times since '99....and it's been five different teams --
Horizon simply doesn't and likely never will have that kind of consistent depth...and their overall strength is always below the Valley's conference RPI
Using a single team's success is like also saying the West Coast Conference and Colonial are also better
the MVC has placed a team in the Sweet Sixteen a half dozen times since '99....and it's been five different teams --
Horizon simply doesn't and likely never will have that kind of consistent depth...and their overall strength is always below the Valley's conference RPI
Using a single team's success is like also saying the West Coast Conference and Colonial are also better
and you might as well add every conference except the Big East. ;-) I agree that it may be in the best interest for Butler to wait it out a bit but they could ask for a nice buyout package from the MVC so if the Big East implodes they can get out without a financial burden. I'm sure there will be a few MVC schools probing if and when it does happen. DePaul will stay where they are until they are kicked out or the league disbands and with Chicago's market, chances of being kicked out is very remote.