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Drake blows out Bradley at home 69-57

cpacmel said:
So a Coach / team that was predicted 5th and currently sits in 5th has underachieved the most?

Also that team that is playing more like A 6th or 7th place team just took the 18th rated team in the country to the buzzer!

Gonna be a fun finish!
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Didn't Coach Muller say they were the #1 team in the conference? Seems like a 4-4 record should be a big disappointment to him.

And Bradley lead Wichita State at halftime in Wichita. They are the only MVC to lead them at halftime on their home court, including ISU. Does that count for anything? :)
 
Da Coach said:
Didn't Coach Muller say they were the #1 team in the conference? Seems like a 4-4 record should be a big disappointment to him.

And Bradley lead Wichita State at halftime in Wichita. They are the only MVC to lead them at halftime on their home court, including ISU. Does that count for anything? :)
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Muller did vote for his own team as the preseason favorite. That's gonna haunt him. Does ISU still have to go to Wichita? Bradley did lead at halftime and that accounted for one thing. A pretty good butt whooping the second half after Greg Marshall gave a good locker room tongue lashing at half.
 
I remember Marshall saying that it was his players that spoke up that really spearheaded their 2nd half butt whippin of us.
 
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Chico said:
Make it a double.
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Braves2006 said:
I'll have what bigjimmy is having..... :eek:
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bigjimmy said:
It's looking more and more like we have a clear top 5 (Wichita, UNI, ISU Blue, Evansville and ISU Red) and a clear bottom 5 (Loyola, BU, SIU, Missouri St and Drake). BU should be tied for 6th, assuming we beat Drake, with Loyola after Wednesday as Loyola plays at Wichita, SIU plays at home against SIU and MSU plays at ISU Red. I think it's very possible that 7 Valley wins could get you 6th. As long as we win Wednesday that would mean we would need 4 wins for that scenario. I think even this team could do that right?
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While it's true I might have been on something of a sugar rush that night have you guys seen the other 4 teams play? Our chances are as good as those other 4. I think you will find that of those 5 teams whichever one ends up with the best overall record amongst those 5 teams will end up 6th.
 
cpacmel said:
So a Coach / team that was predicted 5th and currently sits in 5th has underachieved the most?

Also that team that is playing more like A 6th or 7th place team just took the 18th rated team in the country to the buzzer!

Gonna be a fun finish!
Click to expand...

well, I knew it would rile some ISU fans to say that...but am I alone in thinking Muller has underperformed...?
I work with a couple ISU fans who are disappointed and would agree he has done a weak job this year - especially the home losses, the sweep by InSU, and the struggle to beat Drake...
I have also seen a few downer comments on the board...

But if it makes you feel any better - I also think Geno Ford has a whole lot more talent than a team that had to take 8 games to get their 2nd MVC win...


but even tho I believe they picked us 5th, our media has just lowered the bar on what they will call a great BU season, as Dave Reynolds just wrote...
"Whether the Braves are able to ...avoid the Thursday play-in round of the MVC tournament for the first time in five years is the biggest question..
.. Starting the tournament on Friday could help the Braves begin to return to relevance in the conference again."

so I guess an enormous celebration will break out and there'll be claims of great success down at the PJ Star if we can avoid Thursday...



Wonder what starting lineup we will go with...I suspect the same even tho we barely beat one of the worst MVC teams...
Last game was a shakeup - with the previous six games all having the same starting lineup then a change last game...
...we have now used eight different starting lineups so far....



one last thought - the line from this morning's column that we could wake up Thursday in a tie for 6th..
..but we also could wake up Thursday all alone in last place
..then the worry about ("7-footer") Jacob Enevold....seriously, like he's beating other teams??? I thought we were strong in the post?
He's not good from the FT line, he never shoots from more than a few inches away, and he has almost zero assists but almost 50 turnovers!!!
And we're worried about a strategy on this guy?? Please - we gotta get someone who can coach big men or against big men..
 
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tornado said:
well, I knew it would rile some ISU fans to say that...but am I alone in thinking Muller has underperformed...?
I work with a couple ISU fans who are disappointed and would agree he has done a weak job this year - especially the home losses, the sweep by InSU, and the struggle to beat Drake...
I have also seen a few downer comments on the board...

But if it makes you feel any better - I also think Geno Ford has a whole lot more talent than a team that had to take 8 games to get their 2nd MVC win...


but even tho I believe they picked us 5th, our media has just lowered the bar on what they will call a great BU season, as Dave Reynolds just wrote...
"Whether the Braves are able to ...avoid the Thursday play-in round of the MVC tournament for the first time in five years is the biggest question..
.. Starting the tournament on Friday could help the Braves begin to return to relevance in the conference again."

so I guess an enormous celebration will break out and there'll be claims of great success down at the PJ Star if we can avoid Thursday...



Wonder what starting lineup we will go with...I suspect the same even tho we barely beat one of the worst MVC teams...
Last game was a shakeup - with the previous six games all having the same starting lineup then a change last game...
...we have now used eight different starting lineups so far....



one last thought - the line from this morning's column that we could wake up Thursday in a tie for 6th..
..but we also could wake up Thursday all alone in last place
..then the worry about ("7-footer") Jacob Enevold....seriously, like he's beating other teams??? I thought we were strong in the post?
He's not good from the FT line, he never shoots from more than a few inches away, and he has almost zero assists but almost 50 turnovers!!!
And we're worried about a strategy on this guy?? Please - we gotta get someone who can coach big men or against big men..
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I'm not an ISU fan, but I don't think Muller is that bad of a coach. He was a very well respected assistant at Vanderbilt in the SEC, before going to ISU. Hindsight is always 20/20. I think when the dust settles ISU will be in the top 4 of the standings and we once again will be looking up at them. They have also improved their non conference schedule immensely. Bradley should be ashamed of theirs. I'm looking forward to the day, that I can talk about BU winning, instead of ISU or some other school losing more games than they were suppose to.

If BU were to get out of the play in round at the Valley tournament, it would be a BIG deal for "BU". Not for me however. I believe if you can't finish at least 4th in the Missouri Valley, you really shouldn't be tooting your horn too loud. The Missouri Valley is not very good, once you get by the four teams in any given year. That's what makes it frustrating to be this down for this long.
 
tornado said:
...
but even tho I believe they picked us 5th, our media has just lowered the bar on what they will call a great BU season, as Dave Reynolds just wrote...
"Whether the Braves are able to ...avoid the Thursday play-in round of the MVC tournament for the first time in five years is the biggest question..
.. Starting the tournament on Friday could help the Braves begin to return to relevance in the conference again."
Click to expand...

Wow, does Dave even realize how silly this kind of statement seems? He seems gleeful about the prospect of Bradley, in their 4th season under a new coaching regime, maybe finishing all the way as high as 6th place and avoiding the Thursday play-in games for the first time under Geno. Of course, such a finish would only result in another embarrassing one-and-done exit from the tournament like we have seen every year under Geno, even though 2 of the last 3 seasons we were playing teams seeded below us in the play-in round!

I seem to recall virtually every Bradley fan (and even our friends in the media), whether they were pro JL-firing or anti JL-firing having expectations of a top 4 finish by year 3, and challenging for championships by year 4. How far have we fallen when we now have pipe dreams of finishing ahead of a flock of 250+ RPI teams to make it all the way to 6th to avoid the dreaded play-in Thursday in year 4.

However, Dave fails to mention that the MVC is greatly weakened from where it was 4 years ago. And the bottom half of the MVC this year is unbelievably bad. Finishing 6th this year is no trophy, since there are 4 other teams (Drake, SIU, Loyola, and Missouri State) that are pathetically weak, especially now that Marcus Marshall quit, and Milton Doyle is out with an injury.

But I hate to disagree with Dave. An artificial accomplishment like this will have absolutely no bearing on the Braves "returning to relevance in the conference again". That will only be accomplished by building quality, well-rounded teams with great talent, great recruiting, great depth, and great coaching, things that clearly this Bradley does not possess. Those things don't suddenly appear just by some arbitrary accomplishment of finishing ahead of some really bad teams. Bradley is still sitting with an RPI of about 270 and headed for another 20-loss season. Is that really something Dave thinks makes Bradley relevant in the MVC again?
 
Dave Reynolds' pregame article
Drake heads to Bradley for a 'big game'
http://www.pjstar.com/article/20150127/SPORTS/150129231/12701/SPORTS



And after ending a 5-game losing streak with a 2-point home win over a weakened MSU team, Ray Giacoletti says Bradley is playing their best basketball of the season right now-

???We need to get refocused and get ready for Bradley,??? said Giacoletti, an East Peoria native. ???They??™re definitely playing their best basketball of the season right now.???
 
cpacmel said:
So a Coach / team that was predicted 5th and currently sits in 5th has underachieved the most?

Also that team that is playing more like A 6th or 7th place team just took the 18th rated team in the country to the buzzer!

Gonna be a fun finish!
Click to expand...

And the first place vote was merely a tool used to motivate his team, and that vote also over-inflated their total points in the rankings. I'm no Muller fan, but let's be honest.

Exhibit A of why coaches should not be able to vote for their own team.
 
Muller taking a lot of unfair heat on the board as far as I'm concerned.

He will be 5-4 in the MVC after tonight and on his way to a 10-8 MVC Season.

Will have gone from 8 - 10 6th, to 9 - 9 5th, to 10 - 8 4th and will have everyone back and ready to make a splash in year 4.

Seems like a solid coach to me.

Not to mention overall winning season every year even with a tougher schedule.
 
BU212121 said:
Muller taking a lot of unfair heat on the board as far as I'm concerned.

He will be 5-4 in the MVC after tonight and on his way to a 10-8 MVC Season.

Will have gone from 8 - 10 6th, to 9 - 9 5th, to 10 - 8 4th and will have everyone back and ready to make a splash in year 4.

Seems like a solid coach to me.

Not to mention overall winning season every year even with a tougher schedule.
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Although you will not find any posts by me criticizing Muller, what you describe as a improvement by ISU, really isn't as much of an improvement as it would appear. I guess I have to keep reminding Dave, Kirk, and everyone else that the conference has gotten significantly weaker these last couple years. Just the loss of Creighton and the addition of a 10th place Loyola last year was the main factor that moved everyone up a notch last year (including accounting for the only "improvement" Bradley can claim), and the abysmal failure of Drake, Bradley, Missouri State, SIU, and now Loyola, are a major factor for the "rise" of teams like ILSU, INSU, and Evansville in 2014-15.

I am not knocking them. They have done what they needed to do to separate themselves from the garbage that fills the bottom half of the current MVC. But the decline of half of the league, and the loss of Creighton has much more to do with where they are in the MVC now.
 
BU212121 said:
Muller taking a lot of unfair heat on the board as far as I'm concerned.

He will be 5-4 in the MVC after tonight and on his way to a 10-8 MVC Season....
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OK - I will defend my opinion with facts whether the ISU people want to be honest and admit these are proven facts or not.
Jank's record for 5 seasons before Muller arrived was 104-64 & 48-42 in MVC -
and FOUR Top-3 finishes in his five years in the MVC!!!

Muller took over a program that was winning - & returning almost EVERYONE - he didn't come in to clean up or rebuild from a fired coach...

He inherited a team that had just won 21 games and returned all-conference caliber players such as Jackie Carmichael, Tyler Brown, John Wilkins, etc...
In fact FOUR of the five prior seasons, ISU had won over 20 games (21, 22, 24, & 25!!)

But in the 3 seasons under Muller - now, suddenly they are clearly mediocre and underperforming...
even with those All-conference guys - they went 8-10 in the Valley.
Muller's overall MVC record is 23-23 - and the MVC is considerably weaker now with Loyola subbing for Creighton!
Muller has also had more home losses..
Jank had just 3 home losses in 35 games the last year but Muller has had 12 already in just over 2 seasons here.

Then you have all the player arrests, discipline issues, drug problems, dismissals, the revolving door with numerous players - many his own recruits - getting booted at the end of each season!
There's been a fair amount of turmoil that's also evidence of part of his coaching ability he still has to hone.

So - if you ask me what I think - I believe Dan Muller is a bright guy and a good coach - but he's still learning and is where Jim Les was in year 2 or 3 and still has a long way to go to become a very good coach...
 
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Really sad when Geno is hyped about having a strong finish to finish 6th in the Valley for the first time since coming to BU...doubt we'll end up there anyhow, but way to stay positive.

I will finally get to see Bradley this season...did not buy BU TV nor have had a chance to watch on TV...will be interesting as I haven't seen half the players.
 
Drake is the worst team in the Valley
They are incredibly weak on the road and have gone winless on the road and winless even at neutral sites...
such that they are 0-11 away from home...with most of their road losses being HUGE 20 to 30 point blowouts...


so, I find it interesting....because it used to be that when we played the bottom-dweller here at home - it was A GIVEN that we'd cruise to an easy win....
this ought to be a laffer - an easy win that fans can expect to see some offensive highlights and slam dunks...

BUT nooooo...this is a worrisome game, a game that even Dave Reynolds is picking as dangerously close and it is truly sad that as a team we have to even worry about beating a 250RPI bottom dweller on our own home court. This game is now a must win challenge...
 
Sorry Tornado, you play the missing player (Marshall) card for Missouri state but not for Illinois State. When ISU lost to the Trees in Normal for example , ISU was down 2.5 starters. Probably made a difference in a 2 point game, wouldn't you think?

I understand Muller voted ISU #1. But 45 other voters wichita state #1. And when you calculate all the votes, ISU was 5th. Which is exactly where they sit today.

It didn't rile me up. I love a good mvc debate.

ISU at Loyola on Saturday..... Do braves fans root for ISU in that one ?
 
Buesch N Chips said:
And the first place vote was merely a tool used to motivate his team, and that vote also over-inflated their total points in the rankings. I'm no Muller fan, but let's be honest.

Exhibit A of why coaches should not be able to vote for their own team.
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Actually I think muller believed at the end of the season ISU would be #1 in the conference. I didn't share that belief with him....;)
 
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