Sorry dude, I'll give ya Bobby was clean on the recruiting front, but the guys despicable. He choked a college student for christ sake! And look at his graduation rate towards the end of his run at IU, and his at TT. Once he couldn't get good, smart, talent he went the way of tons of other coaches and got whatever he could get. He has some good qualities, but he himself isn't all that great. And before you go of criticizing me for my comments, I've met the man, I know people who have been recruited by him (albeit at arm's length) and grew up in IU country. The only thing Bobby Knight's done that I respect is be a mentor to Mike Kryzyzewksi, who, while I HATE Duke, is probably the greatest basketball coach in history.
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Bob Knight Gets Reprimanded
- Thread starter tornado
- Start date
Sorry dude, I'll give ya Bobby was clean on the recruiting front, but the guys despicable. He choked a college student for christ sake! And look at his graduation rate towards the end of his run at IU, and his at TT. Once he couldn't get good, smart, talent he went the way of tons of other coaches and got whatever he could get. He has some good qualities, but he himself isn't all that great. And before you go of criticizing me for my comments, I've met the man, I know people who have been recruited by him (albeit at arm's length) and grew up in IU country. The only thing Bobby Knight's done that I respect is be a mentor to Mike Kryzyzewksi, who, while I HATE Duke, is probably the greatest basketball coach in history.
MacabreMob
New member
I have always loved Bobby.
Times have changed.
Even General Patton would not make it in todays world.
Times have changed.
Even General Patton would not make it in todays world.
Fair enough statement mob.. I havent met Bobby nor do I want to meet him. And I am sure RMK will get along just fine without meeting me!Ahhhh.... you say that as if you met/know Bobby.
I have seen enough interviews etc to form the opinion that Knight and Mays have the same demeanor and I wouldnt bother walk across the street to meet either person.
MacabreMob
New member
Fair enough statement mob.. I havent met Bobby nor do I want to meet him. And I am sure RMK will get along just fine without meeting me!
I have seen enough interviews etc to form the opinion that Knight and Mays have the same demeanor and I wouldnt bother walk across the street to meet either person.
I should probably leave this alone...
but...
Yes, we all have seen the interviews and press by the drive-by media of RMK.
Amckillip, I cant stand Bobby Knight either, but I do know the family of a guy who played for Knight and they liked him. I think that over the years, Knight developed this Hitler complex and through his actions, statements, and RMK's ability to intimidate the IU adminstration ,he (RMK) thinks he is better than everyone else...
John Wooden, Mike Krzyzewski, and Dean Smith.... All coaches who have won wtih CLASS!
I should probably leave this alone...
but...
Yes, we all have seen the interviews and press by the drive-by media of RMK.
Mob, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one... All I can think of is a "Heart of Darkness" situation with RMK being Kurtz...
MacabreMob
New member
MacabreMob
New member
We ALL KNOW there was NO illegal recruiting done at their schools. And we ALL KNOW that ALL their students performed all their work and acheived the grades they got.
Scheeeya... right. And I got a bridge to sell ya in Minnesota.
Hey - this is the new era... guilty til proven innocent.
Maybe it's time to ride off into the sunset.....I mean RMK, not Jim Les. The knock on Keady was he no longer could relate to the youthful players coming in. Maybe it's just my experience but kids these days don't respond well to screaming.
Plus Knight is located in Outter Timbuktu.
I've always wondered about this. Are so many of today's athletes so thin-skinned that they can't even take some screaming by a coach? I've heard people equating verbal "abuse" to physical abuse. Puhleeze! To even think that someone screaming at a person is akin to physically punching or pushing someone is beyond stupid.
Besides, the people who play for Knight know what they are getting into. He runs his team like a boot camp. He is the boot camp for those who are not in the military. His philosphy is to instill discipline in his players to prepare them for the rigors of life in a manner that is usually only provided to those training for a military career. So his players get the benefit of some psuedo-military training without actually having to experience combat. But they get many of the same benefits as someone who serves in the army, minus serving in actual combat of course. And Knight believes that this will make men out of his players, and will better serve them in life.
Now, if players don't want to go through this boot camp like atmosphere, then they can play for Coach K, Dean Smith, Homer Drew, Dana Altman or whomever else are great coaches that teach in a more professional matter, which is perfectly fine with me. Knight is not for everyone, but as I said, for those who choose him as a coach, they know what they are getting into. And regardless of those who choose him or not, to call him irrelevant because in the opinion of many he screams too much just shows how soft our society has become today when it comes to raising children. It's gotten to the point that kids are actually suing parents because they are verbally "abusive"! Come on! When is this going to end?!
Oh, by the way, those who think that those other coaches I mentioned don't yell, I got some bad news. They yell once in awhile too! Okay, maybe Drew will use a stern tone in a normal voice (his book he wrote regarding his 1997 Sweet Sixteen run mentioned he does not like to yell at his players since it might put too much pressure on them during practice or game situations), but the point is ALL coaches will yell once in awhile, especially if their team is playing poorly.
I guess that means that even Homer Drew might have to retire before he gets sued by someone!
I agree. And that's too bad because we could have used Patton during the war in Iraq (not a knock on the war, I just think our current military is too hamstrung by politics).
As far as Knight is concerned, I probably would not like playing for him personally (I think I respond better to someone teaching me in professional matter rather than in a "boot camp" manner), but I respect the guy greatly and know that his methods work well for certain personalities. Just because some don't like him doesn't mean what he is doing is wrong. He's always run clean programs, and to see what is going on in Indiana now makes me wish for more Knights, not less.
Lakeview Brave
New member
Im not saying he is a nice guy, in fact he may very well be an a$$hole but the his record does speak for it self and he didnt cheat to get it. He had 1 NBA allstar his entire career, his career graduation rate as a whole is tremendous, he taught a class at IU which almost no coach does and he gave alot of money to charity. Yes he choked a kid which is deploreable and but he had a very postive effect on hudrends of others and most of his former players say that publicly. I think Coach K is a great coach also but if you talk to people who know the program and know Duke (my brother being someone who does) they will tell you coach K is one of the biggest jerks ever just not as much during games.
Lakeview Brave
New member
You win, in all the coaching world thier was no one who could have done anything differently or anything better. The reason no veteran coach applied is because the board went cheap very cheap and that is why I blame them. But hey even if they got Dean Smith out of retirement he would have had the same results maybe worse, I mean experience and pratices at your craft mean nothing when it comes to coaching only every other job in the world.
tornado
New member
LB-- if you would want to fire a guy when he does take over a program that's well under .500, and in a couple years turn it around so that it's now well over .500 a couple years in a row...
but just because he is still struggling to get to the top echelon and can't get to the same degree of success right away as the top teams in the Valley........you are still dissatisfied, the guy is inexperienced, too young?.... and want to get rid of him??
then.........I guess you just fired Jim DeRose...because he took over a woeful BU program in 1996 and although he began recruiting better players right away, he still was 2nd fiddle to Creighton and other teams in the Valley for his first several years, never winning a post-season game and never getting by Creighton.
I am sure glad the few who were dissatisfied after DeRose's first 3-4 years didn't win over the majority of fans who DID see the improvement over the past and who were willing to wait a few more seasons to see the ultimate results of all the hard work.
I hope they see the same in Jim Les.
and Beninator:
The comparison to Mays was because both are still hanging in there despite the age and being well past their prime. Nothing to do with the two people's personalities.
but just because he is still struggling to get to the top echelon and can't get to the same degree of success right away as the top teams in the Valley........you are still dissatisfied, the guy is inexperienced, too young?.... and want to get rid of him??
then.........I guess you just fired Jim DeRose...because he took over a woeful BU program in 1996 and although he began recruiting better players right away, he still was 2nd fiddle to Creighton and other teams in the Valley for his first several years, never winning a post-season game and never getting by Creighton.
I am sure glad the few who were dissatisfied after DeRose's first 3-4 years didn't win over the majority of fans who DID see the improvement over the past and who were willing to wait a few more seasons to see the ultimate results of all the hard work.
I hope they see the same in Jim Les.
and Beninator:
Fair enough statement mob.. I havent met Bobby nor do I want to meet him. And I am sure RMK will get along just fine without meeting me!
I have seen enough interviews etc to form the opinion that Knight and Mays have the same demeanor and I wouldnt bother walk across the street to meet either person.
The comparison to Mays was because both are still hanging in there despite the age and being well past their prime. Nothing to do with the two people's personalities.
Lakeview Brave
New member
tornado
New member
I chose to compare Jim DeRose and Jim Les as both were young and inexperienced and neither had immediate success, although both had early evidence things would be improving. I guess I kinda have the right to compare who I want just as you can find whatever absurd if you want.
Had some had their way in 2002, of course JL wouldn't be head coach, though I don't recall you were among them.
Had others had their way in 2003, 2004, and even as late as Feb. of 2006, we'd have been starting over just like the folks at Evansville and Wichita State.
In fact I still recall quite well a thread from Jan. '06 discussing who BU should hire next as JL had to go!
I am still quite optimistic as I was in that Feb 8, 2006 thread that asked what slim optimism was there. Although that thread is now gone, I was in the minority at that point who said I believed BU could win most of their remaining games and still get a bid. I am not yet ready to yield on my optimism among the present flurry of pessimism.
We are 7-5, have an RPI that's the 3rd best of any of the past 10 seasons, and we have a SOS that only ONE year in the past 10 exceeds.
Yet, we have a few people who are bashing coaches and players -- Sam Singh, David Collins, Ty Cole-Scott, and even Daniel Ruffin and some of the other starters!
I am all for healthy criticism, but you haven't seen some of the really negative posts that have been deleted because they clearly cross the line.
I prefer to remain positive based on past experience.
Had some had their way in 2002, of course JL wouldn't be head coach, though I don't recall you were among them.
Had others had their way in 2003, 2004, and even as late as Feb. of 2006, we'd have been starting over just like the folks at Evansville and Wichita State.
In fact I still recall quite well a thread from Jan. '06 discussing who BU should hire next as JL had to go!
I am still quite optimistic as I was in that Feb 8, 2006 thread that asked what slim optimism was there. Although that thread is now gone, I was in the minority at that point who said I believed BU could win most of their remaining games and still get a bid. I am not yet ready to yield on my optimism among the present flurry of pessimism.
We are 7-5, have an RPI that's the 3rd best of any of the past 10 seasons, and we have a SOS that only ONE year in the past 10 exceeds.
Yet, we have a few people who are bashing coaches and players -- Sam Singh, David Collins, Ty Cole-Scott, and even Daniel Ruffin and some of the other starters!
I am all for healthy criticism, but you haven't seen some of the really negative posts that have been deleted because they clearly cross the line.
I prefer to remain positive based on past experience.
bert notorius
New member
Dallas Brave
New member
Seeing how there was a current thread on Bob Knight, I thought I would post this clip here even though it is not about the General's current gaffe ??¦ but it is another example of how Bob Knight??™s personality and coaching approach influenced and molded his players as they went from teenagers to young men.
This clip started getting play in Dallas a few months ago when Isiah Thomas was in the news regarding the sexual harassment lawsuit http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...brownesanders_slams_isiah_thomas_in_sexh.html filed by a female in the Knick's office. If you play the clip, be sure to watch Knight in the background as Isiah is giving his speech. This clip says a lot about Knight and his coaching style with his players while at Indiana.
LANGUAGE WARNING (Isiah does not hold back in telling the audience what he learned from Coach Knight while at IU). Do not play if foul language offends you.
http://thebiglead.com/?p=3925
This clip started getting play in Dallas a few months ago when Isiah Thomas was in the news regarding the sexual harassment lawsuit http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...brownesanders_slams_isiah_thomas_in_sexh.html filed by a female in the Knick's office. If you play the clip, be sure to watch Knight in the background as Isiah is giving his speech. This clip says a lot about Knight and his coaching style with his players while at Indiana.
LANGUAGE WARNING (Isiah does not hold back in telling the audience what he learned from Coach Knight while at IU). Do not play if foul language offends you.
http://thebiglead.com/?p=3925
That is an amazing piece of video. I wonder how that survived all these years (it's from 1982) and surfaced now. I had never seen it before. Apparently it was first posted publically just a few days ago here...note the responses--
http://deadspin.com/sports/sunt/bob-knight-isiah-thomas-and-sunt-334721.php
I'm amazed at how Isaiah throws those highly offensive terms around without hesitation. The audience, at first, just laughs, but as he continues with the offensive C-word repeatedly, the audience gets quieter and the laughing stops, and it's clear they are not comfortable and don't know how to react. Even Knight looks a little shocked with what Thomas is saying and Isaiah senses that he wants him to stop.
Instead of complimenting and honoring his mentor, it comes off sounding like a huge insult to Knight.
http://deadspin.com/sports/sunt/bob-knight-isiah-thomas-and-sunt-334721.php
I'm amazed at how Isaiah throws those highly offensive terms around without hesitation. The audience, at first, just laughs, but as he continues with the offensive C-word repeatedly, the audience gets quieter and the laughing stops, and it's clear they are not comfortable and don't know how to react. Even Knight looks a little shocked with what Thomas is saying and Isaiah senses that he wants him to stop.
Instead of complimenting and honoring his mentor, it comes off sounding like a huge insult to Knight.
tornado
New member
Looks like another myth has been exposed....that Bob Knight is a great teacher.....
I guess factual stuff like this and the graduation data & facts (see below) really is not very welcome by the Bob Knight worshippers!!!
There's only one place Isaih would have heard that word, and he tells you right up front, that it was a pet phrase
that Bob Knight used to insult or motivate the IU recruits who were not playing very hard.
What he obviously was doing was using a derogatory word implying that the recruits were playing like girls,
but the way he does it is something that just simply wouldn't be allowed in any other arena,
so I am curious how Knight has gotten away with this kind of sexist insult when others have been impaled for far, far less.
Frankly, if that's the kind of language and behavior used by Knight, then whatever esteem I ever had has sunk even lower.
I guess if you want to judge the guy only on the ability to win games, then at least be up front and admit that
but how come guys like Barry Bonds, Jimmy the Greek, OJ Simpson, and many others don't get the same pass on that stuff?
PLUS-- I think we have already sufficiently blasted out of the water the age-old myth that Bob Knight always "graduates his players".
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=45772#post45772
The NCAA's own data shows his own graduation rate at IU (1996-00)-78% was really no better than the national average!! (77%)
More Bob Knight fun....
Bob does a Marines commercial, wouldn't it have been funny to see this on TV?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=30Ai--MfDfs
Bob Knight uses the phrase "if rape is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it"
(see timeline, 1988 )
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/big12/2006-11-14-knight-timeline_x.htm
(and under "Controversies")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Knight
Knight explains why he likes the "F" word
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0od7spyth_I&feature=related
I guess factual stuff like this and the graduation data & facts (see below) really is not very welcome by the Bob Knight worshippers!!!
There's only one place Isaih would have heard that word, and he tells you right up front, that it was a pet phrase
that Bob Knight used to insult or motivate the IU recruits who were not playing very hard.
What he obviously was doing was using a derogatory word implying that the recruits were playing like girls,
but the way he does it is something that just simply wouldn't be allowed in any other arena,
so I am curious how Knight has gotten away with this kind of sexist insult when others have been impaled for far, far less.
Frankly, if that's the kind of language and behavior used by Knight, then whatever esteem I ever had has sunk even lower.
I guess if you want to judge the guy only on the ability to win games, then at least be up front and admit that
but how come guys like Barry Bonds, Jimmy the Greek, OJ Simpson, and many others don't get the same pass on that stuff?
PLUS-- I think we have already sufficiently blasted out of the water the age-old myth that Bob Knight always "graduates his players".
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=45772#post45772
The NCAA's own data shows his own graduation rate at IU (1996-00)-78% was really no better than the national average!! (77%)
More Bob Knight fun....
Bob does a Marines commercial, wouldn't it have been funny to see this on TV?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=30Ai--MfDfs
Bob Knight uses the phrase "if rape is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it"
(see timeline, 1988 )
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/big12/2006-11-14-knight-timeline_x.htm
(and under "Controversies")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Knight
Knight explains why he likes the "F" word
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0od7spyth_I&feature=related
Lakeview Brave
New member
Ive already made my points so I wont give a long response but I do like how you only posted his graduation rated from 1996 to 2000 as if that is the extent of his career and I really have to laugh when you say "Only one place Isaih could have heard that word" he grew up on the west side of Chicago HAHAHA ever been there? I know you probably went to the UIC game but that doesnt count. If you have than you would know he may have heard "that word" and many more like it.