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We Need Shooters Bad!

tornado said:
just recalled - we had one other kid pledged to Bradley back in 2010 that went on to be one of the nation's best 3-pt shooters but was not allowed by our admin to play here, then yet another that landed with him - that also shot 49% last year and was POY in his conference.
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That's one kid I'm thankful we DIDN'T get. From what I've read that you've said on here, you seem to be a pretty moral and stand-up guy Tornado. I'm actually surprised that you'd want a kid like that representing the Red & White. I sure wouldn't.
 
ah ha - you're referring to Marshall Henderson and that's an entirely different topic...

were his indiscretions enough to outweigh his talent and his value to the team...
sounds like you and I agree they were - but there's a lot who felt otherwise.
 
LongTimeFan said:
After watching the NIU game I would say we shouldn't turn down any good player at ANY position.
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Please explain why you would want a kid with Henderson's track record at Bradley. I'd be embarrassed, as an alum, to have trash like him representing my school.
 
The word 'good' has multiple meanings. It is not confined to your view.

To be honest, I did not refer to your statement about Henderson. I was addressing to 'original' topic of this thread about 'needing shooters'. We need more than just shooters. A 'good' point guard would be just one example of not concentrating on just shooters.

Notice my comments here do not preclude the need of shooters also.
 
LongTimeFan said:
The word 'good' has multiple meanings. It is not confined to your view.

To be honest, I did not refer to your statement about Henderson. I was addressing to 'original' topic of this thread about 'needing shooters'. We need more than just shooters. A 'good' point guard would be just one example of not concentrating on just shooters.

Notice my comments here do not preclude the need of shooters also.
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Gotcha LTF. I misinterpreted your comment. Sorry.
 
No problem. I hope Chico sees it too.

Asd bad as I would like to see Bradley successful, it is not the way to go. We have seen distractions in the past. I'm not up to what Henderson's history is. I'm trying to concentrate on the present and hopefully a better future.
 
What If Les Had Stayed

What If Les Had Stayed

tornado said:
I see where Kirk Wessler has entered this argument about needing SHOOTERS with this statement

Bradley has not had a pure shooter since Andrew Warren, who was recruited and signed 10 years ago. Nate Kennell appears likely to break that streak, but he's only one guy. Several more are needed. Maybe Luuk van Bree and Antoine Pittman become good, consistent shooters; they have good strokes. We'll see. But look around at the "mid-major" programs who have had consistent success in the 21st century. With very few exceptions, a common thread is that half or more of the roster shoots well.
The "blame" -- to stick with the theme of the thread -- is shared. Les did not sign any shooters in his last five classes. Geno signed none in his four. While the jury is out on Wardle, data through 12 games indicates his first class yielded none and there's only one probable so far in the second.

So he immediately points the blame at Jim Les ....contending this its a problem dating to 2005. LOL!

A few of the facts as I see them - you decide...

#1- KW seems to stumble onto the fact that recruiting shooters is important.
The simplest of searches on this board will show, as we have done in this thread, we have had dozens of fans/posters who have been saying that exact same thing for the past 4-5 years....so Kirk is a little late to the party...

BTW- we have just come off the WORST 4 year stretch of shooting that any Bradley fan could recall. We have been the worst in 3-pt shooting over these last 4 years and none of our players other than possibly a couple of the Jim Les holdovers could help us a bit with their 3-pt shooting.
So the question needs to be asked...why does he only now bring this topic up? Where's he been the last four years with this argument?
Gimme a break - he never said a thing for four years while Geno filled the roster with horrible shooters and guys who couldn't even make layups or FT's and all the time Kirk was calling them "difference makers", "go to guys", and "deeper & more talented"!


#2- "Les did not sign any shooters in his last five classes."
Well, I beg to differ...
Jim Les' last five "CLASSES" that were signed to come to Bradley included:

-2007-08 - Andrew Warren (career 40.2% shooter- as good as anyone else in the Valley in that era), Will Egolf (the best 3-pt shooting big man we've had in a couple decades at 36% his senior year), Sam Maniscalco (3 separate seasons of 35% or better - career 34% shooter), Theron Wilson (hit 41.2% from the arc his junior year and 51.4% in conference play in 2007-08- good enough for BEST in ENTIRE MVC - LINK
-2008-09 - Dodie Dunson was a 38% 3-pt shooter on his career (better career 3-pt pct than UNI's Ali Farokhmanesh), Chris Roberts hit 36% on his career
-2009-10 - DSE wasn't great but he & Walt Lemon were the top two 3-pt shooters by far in Geno's first couple years
-2010-11 - Walt wasn't great but his 35% in Geno's 1st couple seasons was all Geno had!
-2011-12 - hey, I know this class never played for Jim, but Nate Well's three's save a couple wins for Geno and don't forget we had Remy Abell signed who shot OVER 40% his first THREE seasons in DI and will end his career at around 40% and also had a 48.5% season while at IU playing against far tougher defenses than anyone Geno recruited ever saw.

OK - so who has Geno recruited that compares?
I say 9 of the TOP 10 3-pt shooters recruited in the past 10 seasons were all Jim Les recruits, NOT Geno's- you decide
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From a distance, letting Jim Les go was the beginning of the downward spiral we are still trying to reverse. We should have never let him go!!!!
 
Chico said:
After what has happened since JL left, why not?
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Les has been gone for years??¦.I don't understand why it keeps being brought up.
Nobody knows how it would have been if he hadn't been fired??¦it would be pure speculation. It certainly would have been better than Geno I'm sure, but maybe we would have stayed middle of the pack or worse??¦maybe we would have won a couple of championships??¦.nobody knows

Les had some not so good years toward the end and a bad relationship with the Pres and that did him end. BU thought they could do better and hired Geno. It didn't work out. Now it's Wardle's turn and we'll see how it goes.
 
I know it grates on some people, but I have to disagree. There are an awful lot of Bradley supporters who gave a lot of money to build and support the program during the Jim Les years. In fact, except for a handful of disgruntled fans, one newspaper writer with an agenda, and a President who was an egotistic control freak, the majority of fans believed things were good, and that Jim Les would have rebuilt a winner here again with solid recruits like Remy Abell and Corey Hawkins.
And the only "not so good years toward the end" was 2010-11 when Les was undermined and forced by a meddling and clueless administration (which was determined to fire him the year earlier, but it was cost-prohibitive) to play 2010-11 without his assistant coaches, and 2 of his best players, in addition to being overruled on recruits and limited on budget, which his successor never was.
Here is documentation that things were not only "pretty good", but "record-setting"-
Record-setting revenue-
http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=1597812
http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=515906

Attendance averaging over 10,000 per game-
http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=187398

Not to mention an unprecedented 102 wins in a 5-year stretch 2005-2010, and a Sweet 16, the first in 50 years.

So I still see and talk, nearly every day, to solid, loyal fans who gave their money, bought tickets, and supported that team, and support that Hall of Fame coach who was treated like a dog when he was fired, and they still harbor a great deal of resentment. Surely you know this is true. Thousands of those fans are now masquerading as empty seats at Carver Arena, and the massive fallout that I predicted nearly 5 years ago has still not even reached it's lowest level yet, and it probably never will be brought back to where things were.

So you might still want to mock those fans who believed those changes in 2011 were bad and destructive moves, but those people have been proven right 100%, and many still hold resentment over what happened.

What I don't understand is how some people can simply ignore the obvious, and suggest that those moves were necessary and right at the time, and that by pure chance, things just "didn't work out". No, things were decimated by the choices of 2 people, who continually tried to deceive fans and even deceive the Board of Trustees as they tried to hide the losses and pretend everything was so great. $20 million dollars squandered over just 3-4 years, all while destroying a good basketball program, and a great fan base. That unbelievable downturn, and massive financial losses should be the story our journalists should be focusing on, yet they never detached their lips from you-know-where long enough to even ask the questions that needed to be asked. Maybe some day, the heroes on the Board of Trustees that saved the program from total destruction might reveal some of the details of the April, 2014 Bradley Finance Department's financial report that unmasked the lying and massive deficits and cover-ups (which I have a copy of, and posted some of the data, and was threatened and told to remove). But I suspect the BOT members and current employees have too much class to do that. But the story of the unprecedented damage done would really make a good story if someone ever chose to actually report it.
 
The Board of Trustee members were duped but when they saw the facts & accurate numbers regarding Glasser's deception, mismanagement & overspending...they reversed course so fact it made heads spin.
They went from being fully behind Glasser & Cross in late November - to being fully ready & dead-set to ponying up $7-10 million to buy out the whole lot of them by January.
Would love to have a transcript of those meetings between November-January but the facts when finally presented to the Board really caused a massive tidal wave of opposition towards the admin overnight.
But why did it take 3-4 years to see what we knew way earlier...it was even all over this message board as early as spring 2014?

http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24001
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=291282&postcount=2
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24039
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24075
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24245
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=291282#post291282
 
DC

But it's done??¦..it's over??¦.again, what good is it to keep bringing it up thread after thread?

I know you like to say how right you are about it all DC??¦??¦but really does it make any difference? I know many people too who gave up their tickets after a few years of Geno??¦.I also know some who gave them up when Les was here..not everyone was as enamored with Les as you

It's 4-5 years in the past??¦.why the need to relive it all the time???¦..JG and MC made lots of mistakes and now they are gone as well??¦.that's the way it works

Let's talk about Mo??¦..he's the last coach to compete for conference championships??¦??¦..it's in the past??¦over??¦..it's really time to accept it
 
Lefty, I'm sorry you just don't get it.
It is not about how I personally feel about it. It's recognizing that thousands of fans and donors were betrayed and tremendous damage done that is still far from recovering, and that may never be rectified. Maybe you can just blow that off and pretend it never happened, but most people can't and won't.
What amazes me more than some people's inability to see the damage that was done and how it affected so many fans and donors, is the inability of a handful of people, including the PJ Star, who constantly took JG's side all along, refuse to admit they were wrong, and now want to try to shift the blame elsewhere or say "really does it make any difference" and try to forget about it as if nothing happened. Or even worse, now try to belittle anyone who points out where the failures were.
Unlike nearly all of the fallout deniers, though, I still buy season tickets and make donations to the program. I think my sentiments are like most who have hung in and still support the program- we'd just like to see some success after being denied for so long by the previous administration's ineptitude.
Do you enjoy watching the Braves get slaughtered most games? Better get used to it, because we are still a long way from digging out of the hole JG and MC left.
 
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