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Too Many Fouls!

W

wizard1

New member
Last nights Mich. State/Kansas game was another example of the whistle happy syndrome that is now occurring in college basketball. 46 free throws in a 40 minute basketball game is way too much and is slowing down the game. Team offenses are not able to run with as much continuity and athleticism is being diminished in favor of skill with free throws. Something needs to be done very quickly to change this.
Wiz
 
as mentioned elsewhere - there were numerous people watching the Duke-Kentucky game also tweeting their displeasure that the very players they had tuned in to watch were all on the bench after picking up numerous early ticky-tack fouls...
We've seen it but now the rest of the nation of college basketball fans are catching on...

read a few of these and there are hundreds - even perhaps thousands more..
https://twitter.com/bharris0035/status/666785098767798272
https://twitter.com/jedjarnagin/status/666803678309937153
https://twitter.com/BWilson098/status/666814279144841216
https://twitter.com/KennyThaBaller/status/666801870376181762
https://twitter.com/BourbonNBlue/status/666800373265522688
https://twitter.com/dukebasketball/status/666798763994935297
https://twitter.com/pderek23/status/666786876171272192

NCAA and their refs claim they know how to "fix" the game that is and has been already immensely popular..
..so we are all supposed to just shut up and let them fix this because they obviously know how and are doing a great job.

BTW- it is my understanding that the "RULES" for what is and is not a foul HAVE NOT CHANGED...
just the emphasis (a directive or a change of focus) on how to interpret and enforce the rules.... but NOT any rule changes on what is a foul.

The only true "rule changes" involve the changes in the timeouts, the arc under the basket, the backcourt 10-seconds, shorter shot clock, and freedom to dunk during warmups. Again - if anyone knows of an actual CHANGE in the rules regarding what is or is not a foul - please let me know, but I don't think there is any change - so as many times as I have seen someone saying there is a change- I believe they are all wrong - the only change is in the way that NCAA now wants referees to start interpreting the rule differently that it has been for the past century.

the MAIN emphasis was to decrease stoppages in play and yet how in the HE** can calling 60 fouls and going to the FT line 80 times reduce stoppages in play??
 
My hunch is that the increased amount of fouls per game is a deliberate attempt to slow down the game.

A slower game provides more opportunity for commercial breaks and thus more income.

Happened in the NFL....they have increased the number of commercials more and more per game over the last few decades.

Reruns are playing at 1.03x to 1.05x or thereabouts to squeeze in more ad time.

Would not be surprised if the NCAA is doing something similar....
 
That is an interesting theory, but the NCAA has said they want to speed up the games. They even instituted a couple new rules reducing the number of timeouts and consolidating timeouts called by the teams with media timeouts just to reduce the number of stoppages and try to keep the games under 2 hours in length. So far, all of Bradley's 3 games have exceeded 2 hours.
 
algotrader said:
..
A slower game provides more opportunity for commercial breaks and thus more income......
Click to expand...
but the rule changes have reduced the number of called timeouts - made it harder by prohibiting a coach from calling a timeout
and eliminated some of the media timeouts by using the called time out instead.

the longer games are strictly due to all the extra stoppages from more fouls and increased number of FT's and the number of times they have to go to replay to see who the fouler or FT shooter should be.

BTW - (and maybe BP can pass this on if he wants) a lot of effort has been made with the pregame face painting, bouncy house, and Family Seating area - to try to appeal to kids and families...
BUT if the games run way long and are not over 'til almost 9:30pm then families with children are not getting out of the parking deck and getting home until close to 10pm and families with kids 5 to 12 simply do not want to deal with the issues of kids not getting to bed til well after 10PM on a weeknight/school nite - so something needs to be done about getting the games done earlier.
If the game runs smoothly without a lot of whistles & stoppages - then some 7pm games are over by 8:45-9pm and kids are in bed by 9:15-9:30pm - a much more satisfactory outcome if Bradley really wants these families coming back.
 
First off they aren't going to change the game at the college level. If they really want to change the game it needs to start in 5th grade and then continue on through HS and AAU (this will never happen).
I was talking to a friend of mine this morning about this very thing. He had been a coach and stated that the game wasn't called the same just between this area and southern IL and this area and the Chicago area. If you can't get it called right at the HS level how do they think it is being called correctly at the college level. What you call a foul I let go and what I call a foul you let go so we are never going to settle this argument.
This idea of calling a foul every time one breathes has to come to an end.
 
Just an observation....anyone watch a few games last night?
well - if you did, then maybe you saw what I and a couple of the announcers also saw....
that the refs have ALREADY MODIFIED what being called...and I thought they would after a lot of criticism being voiced about how hard it is to watch these foul-fests.
For the first week & a half of this season, everything was a foul - every contact on an offensive player...50, 55, even 60+ fouls per game!
...and I still think there's too many ticky fouls but things ARE changing...but...

The media people have been pointing out how ugly this is making games look - and then we had a couple high profile games (Michigan State, Duke) with way too many fouls...and thousands erupted about it on Twitter.
http://standingosports.com/main/2013/11/14/ncaa-ruining-college-basketball/

Last night in each of the games I watched - I still think there's too many fouls and it disrupts the flow - but....
I do think they are now backing off a bit and letting some of it go...and, as I said, even the announcers are talking about it -
that some calls which ought to be a foul per the "new rules" are not being called.
Could the intense criticism by some in the media be causing the refs to back off? I know people will see it the way they want but the reduced number of fouls called last night in all the TV games was noticable.

Anyway - unlike a week ago - I couldn't find a single game involving a Top 25 opponent last night that had 55-60 fouls...
And all the TV games - Bradley, Miami, IU, Arizona, Utah, LSU... were way down - in the 20's and 30's total fouls.
Coincidence? Teams suddenly and dramatically adapted?
 
Well, I'm glad there are points of emphasis to try and clean up the game again this year. I think some folks here have lost sight of how the game has morphed for the worse over the last 20 to 25 years. It has turned into a sloppy and physical game as opposed to more of the higher scoring finesse game fans had tended to enjoy. For the better part of the history of the game, if the defender would touch the ball handler outside the lane or post, then it was a foul. Some handchecking would be peissable from time to time, but not while the offensive player was dribbling. These points of emphasis are desperately needed across all levels of the game. I am sorry, but a sloppy game that places the offensive player at a ridiculous disadvantage is not basketball as it should be. Just sayin'...
 
....just as I said - all it was gonna take was one really high profile game - and we had that last night...
with people tuning to see the new key players on Kentucky & Duke and watching them sit with fouls...
Now we will see things change.......
Click to expand...

whatever the reason...things have seemingly changed...
less than a week after a bit of an uproar about too many fouls, things appear to have changed..as some predicted -
now we have people tweeting that the refs aren't calling enough fouls! Big change in just a week or so

just a week ago - seems a lot of games had 50 fouls or more, some 60..but virtually all of them in the 40's
now it's hard to find one that has even 40-45...
Teams adjusting?? Or maybe refs following some new, secret NCAA "directive" to back off a little bit?
Clearly something's changed...
now we are seeing gripes about the refs MISSING TOO MANY FOULS!

In just a week the average fouls per game in MVC games has gone from about 50/gm to under 40/gm - check the last few MVC games' box score
 
tornado said:
whatever the reason...things have seemingly changed...
less than a week after a bit of an uproar about too many fouls, things appear to have changed..as some predicted -
now we have people tweeting that the refs aren't calling enough fouls! Big change in just a week or so

just a week ago - seems a lot of games had 50 fouls or more, some 60..but virtually all of them in the 40's
now it's hard to find one that has even 40-45...
Teams adjusting?? Or maybe refs following some new, secret NCAA "directive" to back off a little bit?
Clearly something's changed...
now we are seeing gripes about the refs MISSING TOO MANY FOULS!

In just a week the average fouls per game in MVC games has gone from about 50/gm to under 40/gm - check the last few MVC games' box score
Click to expand...

During Gregg Marshall's coaches show this week, he mentioned that the players are having a really hard time preparing for games. They have no idea how games are going to be called. It's either completely hands off, or they allow you to get mugged without any calls. It will be interesting to see how this season plays out from a fouls standpoint.
 
my point exactly - whether there's too many or not enough... is it too much to ask for some sensibility & consistency?

...
we shouldn't be discussing that the actual outcome or winner is determined by which style of reffing we're gonna get next game - or whether a team is deep enough to absorb 50 fouls and still have any starters left on the floor.

We had similar discussions about the interesting wider strike zones in the baseball playoffs - but that doesn't compare to this since a few bad strike/ball calls rarely changes a whole game like a couple fouls on a key starter does in basketball
 
The beat writer for SIU Athletics has some thoughts...
seems he sees what I am seeing....

that different ref crews are calling fouls in a vastly different fashion - and even seemingly doing it in each of the two halves of some games...
plus, that they are now changing and calling things differently than we saw earlier this season and calling fewer fouls... and that different crews appear to have widely differing views on what is and what is not a foul.

This contrasts substantially from comments we've seen that ..
"they are only calling what they call according to the rules - all the crews will be doing it the same way"
"they are only doing exactly what they are told to do"
"the rules require them to call it that way, they have no choice"
..and.... "there's a standard set of rules and they are making the proper calls accordingly"

http://thesouthern.com/news/opinion...cle_81f83c4c-c316-58fe-a78b-dd9cc691462d.html
 
There is also a point of emphasis on the "traveling" call. We have been used to seeing college players get away with traveling for years. So now you can expect several more traveling calls per game.
 
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