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Split from the NCAA and form a new organization

B

bradleyfan124

Active member
This is something I have been thinking about for awhile. First of all I don't like the NCAA as it is being run now. It is falling to power and greed from the so called big schools. They don't represent all of college sports anymore. They are pushing toward 2 separate divisions for basketball, the big Power schools and then their is the rest of the schools. Destroying college basketball competition as we know it.

The NCAA derives its power from the participating colleges because the colleges allow them to have that power. When the Power schools form their own group the rest of the colleges should break off from the NCAA. Refuse to follow their lead and rules. Form their own organization. Have their own Big dance competing with the Power schools with TV coverage and selection process. Let the Power schools stay within their own group. There own power, greed and cheating will destroy themselves from within.

I know this is radical but is it. Is that so far off from why the NAIA was formed. Lets see what everyone else thinks
 
That's why they have NCAA division I, I, III. It's not the NCAA's fault some schools aren't as good as others or they don't have as many different sports.
 
bradleyfan124 said:
This is something I have been thinking about for awhile. First of all I don't like the NCAA as it is being run now. It is falling to power and greed from the so called big schools. They don't represent all of college sports anymore. They are pushing toward 2 separate divisions for basketball, the big Power schools and then their is the rest of the schools. Destroying college basketball competition as we know it.

The NCAA derives its power from the participating colleges because the colleges allow them to have that power. When the Power schools form their own group the rest of the colleges should break off from the NCAA. Refuse to follow their lead and rules. Form their own organization. Have their own Big dance competing with the Power schools with TV coverage and selection process. Let the Power schools stay within their own group. There own power, greed and cheating will destroy themselves from within.

I know this is radical but is it. Is that so far off from why the NAIA was formed. Lets see what everyone else thinks
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The separation will need to happen some day, only, as you suggest, it won't be the smaller schools leaving the NCAA to form a new organization, it will be the big schools leaving the small guys behind. As the larger schools hoard nearly all the money and get richer and richer, and they won't really need the other, smaller schools any more.

Here was a column from an ESPN "Outside the Lines" last fall addressing the disparity between the Power 5 schools (Big Ten, Big 12, ACC, SEC, Pac 12) and everyone else. Interesting read-
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/...made-6-billion-last-year-gap-haves-nots-grows
 
I've been saying this to people for years.... like Da Coach suggests. The Power 5 will break and form their own and keep their own. And then just like Bradleyfan124 suggests, their own power, greed, and cheating will destroy themselves from within. But I will not agree that it implodes and they then die off.... their arrogance will push them to continue and boast and advertise as the best competition out there.... and their ignorance will not allow them to see or understand as the attractiveness wears off and they lose all the attention.

I look forward to them becoming basically the NBA D-League and conduct their games like And1 Tournament Games.

:twisted:
 
I think it has become somewhat fashionable to pick on the Power 5 conferences. They don't just excel in basketball but in all sports. Football, baseball, women's basketball and women's softball and women's volleyball are also much better in the Power 5 conferences. It's not anything new. The fact of the matter is they just have better athletics. It doesn't mean their academics are substandard or their curriculum is poor. In fact in most cases they offer a wider variety of courses as well as many more masters programs.
 
Vent said:
I think it has become somewhat fashionable to pick on the Power 5 conferences. They don't just excel in basketball but in all sports. Football, baseball, women's basketball and women's softball and women's volleyball are also much better in the Power 5 conferences. It's not anything new. The fact of the matter is they just have better athletics. It doesn't mean their academics are substandard or their curriculum is poor. In fact in most cases they offer a wider variety of courses as well as many more masters programs.
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Football is the all-driving sport in College today. If they have a strong football program that helps the other sports. I don't agree with the idea they are better in all other sports. Loyola win the Volleyball Championship last year. Denver won in hockey one year and Duluth won it couple years ago. Bradley just beat Iowa in baseball. They beat Illinois a couples seasons ago.The MVC was at one time was considered the best cold weather baseball conference in the country. My point is Colleges can excel at sports and compete with the bigger schools if they are allowed to. However the NCAA is taking that away from them. Instead of promoting athletics like they are supposed to they are destroying it. That is what has got me P.O'd. If it was up to me I would open up the NCAA tournament to all schools and see who remains standing at the end
 
bradleyfan124 said:
Football is the all-driving sport in College today. If they have a strong football program that helps the other sports. I don't agree with the idea they are better in all other sports. Loyola win the Volleyball Championship last year. Denver won in hockey one year and Duluth won it couple years ago. Bradley just beat Iowa in baseball. They beat Illinois a couples seasons ago.The MVC was at one time was considered the best cold weather baseball conference in the country. My point is Colleges can excel at sports and compete with the bigger schools if they are allowed to. However the NCAA is taking that away from them. Instead of promoting athletics like they are supposed to they are destroying it. That is what has got me P.O'd. If it was up to me I would open up the NCAA tournament to all schools and see who remains standing at the end
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You are correct when you say football is a driving force in college sports. However, it is not the NCAA's fault or the Power 5 conferences, that schools like Bradley and many other mid majors have either dropped football or are playing at lower levels. This is something those institutions have decided to do. And contrary to what you may think, the fact is this...in major sports the Power 5 conferences dominate in national championships. This is due to broader curriculums and better facilities. That again is something those schools have put priorities on. Since 2000, the last 17 years, teams from the Power 5 conferences have won the national championship every year in the sports of men's basketball, men's football, men's golf and all but 3 in men's baseball. In women's sports they have won, in that same time span, every softball, volleyball, golf, and all but 1 women's basketball championship. In each of the men's and women's championships listed above, the ones they didn't win, they were runner-up. Since the year 2000 a member of the Power 5 conferences have won 115 of the 119 championships listed above. That might not be every one, but it's pretty darn close. As for men's volleyball, as you noted, Loyola won not only one but two championships in that time span. The Power 5 conferences won 6 while the rest were won by western schools such as Cal-Irvine, Pepperdine, BYU and Hawaii.

It's not just basketball that separates the Power 5 conferences from the rest. Bradley did beat Iowa in baseball this year and beat Illinois two years ago. But schools like Iowa and Illinois don't think it's anything special when they be Bradley or ISU in baseball. Bradley went to the NCAA in baseball a couple years ago. That was spectacular and I watched as many games as I could. We were all proud of that baseball team.

There is a clear difference between the Power 5 conferences and the rest. But that difference isn't the fault of the Power 5 conferences or the NCAA.
 
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Don't take away the opportunity to compete. I understand there are differences among D1 schools but you find that everywhere. In D3 you have private schools around here with student enrollment at around 1000 to 3000 that struggle with finances. Yet in the Wisconsin University school system they have enrollments up to 11,000 and the state pays for a lot of the tuition. That is lopsided but Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan are very competitive. Don't take away the opportunity to compete and win.
 
If they split into separate divisions. Don't have a group for the precious few and then the rest of colleges which I think where they are headed.
 
bradleyfan124 said:
If they split into separate divisions. Don't have a group for the precious few and then the rest of colleges which I think where they are headed.
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I don't think that will happen anytime soon. That would do nothing but slash revenue to the NCAA. I assume you are talking mostly about men's basketball. Splitting the Power 5 from the rest of the schools would seriously cause a loss of revenue due to it being watered down. Look what has happened to the IHSA boys state basketball tournament. It destroyed fan interest and lost revenue by watering the tournament down. The best thing the NCAA basketball tournament going for it is when an underdog gets into the Sweet 16. The NCAA knows it and doesn't want to lose that.
 
Vent said:
I don't think that will happen anytime soon. That would do nothing but slash revenue to the NCAA. I assume you are talking mostly about men's basketball. Splitting the Power 5 from the rest of the schools would seriously cause a loss of revenue due to it being watered down. Look what has happened to the IHSA boys state basketball tournament. It destroyed fan interest and lost revenue by watering the tournament down. The best thing the NCAA basketball tournament going for it is when an underdog gets into the Sweet 16. The NCAA knows it and doesn't want to lose that.
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Yes,that is what I am talking about. I really hope you are right. It is my biggest fear. I love college basketball as it is now. I don't want to see it change for the worse
 
Vent said:
I don't think that will happen anytime soon. That would do nothing but slash revenue to the NCAA. I assume you are talking mostly about men's basketball. Splitting the Power 5 from the rest of the schools would seriously cause a loss of revenue due to it being watered down. Look what has happened to the IHSA boys state basketball tournament. It destroyed fan interest and lost revenue by watering the tournament down. The best thing the NCAA basketball tournament going for it is when an underdog gets into the Sweet 16. The NCAA knows it and doesn't want to lose that.
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This is where I agree... but also disagree.

The NCAA knows it is great for its "package" for viewers to get to see an underdog get to the Sweet16 or beyond.... BUT.... the Power 5 FANS would rather see a 12 seed Missouri upset 5 seed Minnesota instead of a 12 seed Valpo. And... they keep the money within the Power 5.

Now... don't misunderstand me. I think it will be exciting too... to see a 5-13 Big 12 team upset an 11-7 Big 10 team in "The Tournament"... but it lacks the ULTIMATE excitement.

But Power 5 fans don't think like Mid-Major fans. They REALLY would prefer to see all Power 5 teams play.

And the greedy will think that removing Mid-Majors will not hurt the attraction... they think a 12 beating a 5 is the attraction. Doesn't matter the name in the slot for seeding to them.

So... we will see (sooner than later) a breaking and separation. And I can't wait. Let them take their ball and go home. And they will find out... it will lose ULTIMATE excitement and draw and attention. Or maybe they won't find out... cause they will be too arrogant and ignorant to know.

:twisted:
 
I know several fans from Power 5 conferences. If you do not think they enjoy seeing a mid major in the NCAA men's basketball tournament you are wrong. There is nothing that makes an Ole Miss fan happier than when a Bradley gets in over hated Mississippi State. The same can be said for Oklahoma and Oklahoma State or North Carolina and North Carolina State or Florida and Florida State.

In addition tv revenue would plummet do to lower viewership. In addition to the NCAA accountants, CBS would have quite a bit to say about it.
 
Vent - well stated and I agree with you that fans of Power 5 teams often root for their rivals to lose and enjoy when there are upsets and mid-major teams beat one of their rivals.

However, the way the selection committee has been selecting and seeding teams makes it MUCH harder for mid-major teams to get into the NCAA's than ever before. They used to use RPI, but found that some schools (like the MVC in 2006) found good ways to get strong RPI numbers. So lately they have been using the "How many top 50 victories do you have?" and other criteria that is very biased to the Power 5 conferences. Many mid-major teams don't get the opportunities and the selection committee the last few years has shown it isn't worried if you lose a lot of the time if you are from Power 5 against the top 50, just as long as you have a few victories to show for it.

The reason is money. The Power 5 conferences want to keep as many NCAA shares as they can. Keeping more bids in the Power 5 helps their cause and keeps more money. AND seeding teams like Middle Tennessee St. into a 12 seed, Wichita into a 10 seed, etc. - well that clearly makes it harder for those teams to win games and get more NCAA $ shares for their schools.

I am actually hoping that the committee has to use metrics like Sagarin or KenPom. Atleast then there will be a more fair way of evaluating teams and publishing the criteria - not leaving it up to them to change their criteria year-by-year as it suits them.
 
Beating teams in the top 50 or even top 100 should be significant. In addition if you are playing more of those teams the chances of losing are going to be greater. The best thing mid majors can do is when they are given the opportunity to play a top 100 or top 50 team is to win. I don't know if Wichita had a win against a top 50 or 100 team going into the tournament. As for the selection and the seedings, you do realize the Power 5 conferences don't have a majority of members on the selection committee. The committee consisted of athletic directors from Kentucky, NC-Asheville, BYU, New Mexico, Stanford, Creighton, Northeastern, Ohio and Duke.
 
Your points are both valid Vent about Top 50/Top 100 wins AND that the committee is represented by others and not just the Power 5. I can't explain everything, but it seems like the chairman has a lot of influence. I think the problem is that the criteria is not black and white. I have no issues if they make the criteria black and white and the Power 5 dominate the selections. What I don't like is having a sliding set of criteria where they change the criteria on a whim to benefit some schools like I believe they have done.

I personally think the higher-ups at the NCAA want nothing to do with a year like 2006 where you had a George Mason make the Final 4, and 4 MVC teams get in. That is a LOT of money not going to the Power 5. So the best way they can do things is to come up with criteria to favor the Power 5. The problem with Top 50/Top 100 is that there is no standard. There needs to be something like "must win atleast 30% of your games vs. the Top 100" or something like that. Instead you just get credit for wins, and mid-majors get dinged for a bad loss if they lose to someone outside the Top 150.

I just think all of this goes away as far as controversy if they just simply publish what criteria is important. KenPom would be very fair to be used and it would be easy to be understood. Or you could use multiple computer rating systems. The Power 5 doesn't want that though as they would like to keep it ambiguous and let them change the criteria as they see fit.

Don't you think a more uniform set of guidelines would be better and more fair? And if the end result is all Power 5 teams, I can live with that. I think it would be better to have more transparency.
 
The NCAA men's basketball tournament is comprised of teams that get an automatic bid by winning their post season conference tournament or if no tournament is held, by winning their league outright. The rest of the field consists of the remaining best at large teams as determined by the selection committee. The Power 5 conferences typically have the most at large births because they typically have the best teams. The tournament does not consist entirely of the best teams in the NCAA.

The selection committee is generally pretty good at picking the at large teams. The argument usually is around the seeding. If a team feels they get a bad seed, all they need to do is prove they did by winning. As to the MVC getting four teams in 2006, there were three teams that received at large bids. I don't recall all of the at large bids in the NCAA tournament that year, but I would be willing to bet the three MVC at large bids that year took at large bids away from other mid major teams instead of the Power 5 conferences.
 
MDCowboy said:
Vent - well stated and I agree with you that fans of Power 5 teams often root for their rivals to lose and enjoy when there are upsets and mid-major teams beat one of their rivals....
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First of all... this is NOT a "rooting FOR a mid-major"... this is "rooting AGAINST another team"... so... this is schadenfreude.

These fans would STILL enjoy seeing the other team losing to ANYBODY, a mid-major or a Power 5. Doesn't matter - that is schadenfreude.
 
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