I seriously don't know how so many people are defending DV. In another thread we're criticizing Bruce Pearl at this very moment, and regarding our own cheat 'em and leave as a saint. At the end of the day what DV did is directly comparable to Calipari or Carrol. I understand this is a BU board, but what many are saying is pretty much justifying what Pete Carrol did because the fan base enjoyed it when he was there. Of course cheating to win is going to be fun for fans. But at the end of the day, it's cheating. When newspapers like the LA times and NYT are running articles about how the coach cheated, that person was not good for the program. I don't care what success he had, he tarnished the reputation of BU. I will take Albeck over DV any day as at least he lost honestly.
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recruiting
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I seriously don't know how so many people are defending DV. In another thread we're criticizing Bruce Pearl at this very moment, and regarding our own cheat 'em and leave as a saint. At the end of the day what DV did is directly comparable to Calipari or Carrol. I understand this is a BU board, but what many are saying is pretty much justifying what Pete Carrol did because the fan base enjoyed it when he was there. Of course cheating to win is going to be fun for fans. But at the end of the day, it's cheating. When newspapers like the LA times and NYT are running articles about how the coach cheated, that person was not good for the program. I don't care what success he had, he tarnished the reputation of BU. I will take Albeck over DV any day as at least he lost honestly.
I agree with you regarding Albeck. However , I think that we need to look at this from a recruiting perspective. Even back in the 1980's I believe that DV and crew were after recruits 2-3 years before they committed to Bradley. If a school was competing against Bradley for a recruit then, what do you think they were telling that recruit? All that competing school/coach had to state back then was why would you want to go to BU? They just got off of NCAA sanctions and are under the NCAA microscope, the coach who recruited you and took the team to the NCAA's is gone and as a closer you bring up Albeck. DV's actions and departure had a direct correlation as to how the program fell apart.
For the record, Stan Albeck was not a loser. Albeck's record in his 5 seasons at Bradley was 75-71, and his MVC record was even better at 41-31. That MVC winning percentage (.569) is the 4th best in Bradley MVC history, behind only Forddy Anderson, Chuck Orsborn, and Dick Versace, and better than Joe Stowell, and everyone who followed Albeck.
Correct, but 43 of the 75 wins were in his first two years as a coach at BU!
Braves4Life
New member
Albeck's only problem was recruiting...... and it can be argued that he couldn't recruit because of the blemish and sanctions left by Versace.
Unfortunately, Stan's system was a system that required talented players since it was really made more for a good college team or pro team. It can also be argued that because of the talent Stan initially inherited from Versace that he might have done better with that group than Versace...... I think the record with that talented team speaks for itself.
Stan was a good man who did his alma mater a favor when it needed him most. He didn't need the money or the job and deserves better than to be vilified in BU history, IMO.
Unfortunately, Stan's system was a system that required talented players since it was really made more for a good college team or pro team. It can also be argued that because of the talent Stan initially inherited from Versace that he might have done better with that group than Versace...... I think the record with that talented team speaks for itself.
Stan was a good man who did his alma mater a favor when it needed him most. He didn't need the money or the job and deserves better than to be vilified in BU history, IMO.
This is a great post. I think you said it perfectly.
I very much agree with this part of your post! However, I think he was a little lax with some things.
Yes Stan was a good man and good offensive coach, no he did not do a better job with Versaces team as they lost to Auburn in the 1st round of the NCAA tour; Versace would have taken that team farther, Stan also was not a good defensive coach as his teams could score 100 points and give up 110.
Braves4Life
New member
No doubt........ Curtis Stuckey....... 'nuf said.
lake Camelot
New member
RE: Stan Albeck lack of recruiting.
That was when I was college age or a little older and used to frequent bars most nights. I remember how much it irritated me to see assistant coaches out at the bar very frequently when I thought they should be on the road recruiting players. I think the the whole staff was treating it like a cross between the NBA and a vacation. I think Stan could have made it work with a staff of young go getters, but his buddy from the NBA was a bad choice.
That was when I was college age or a little older and used to frequent bars most nights. I remember how much it irritated me to see assistant coaches out at the bar very frequently when I thought they should be on the road recruiting players. I think the the whole staff was treating it like a cross between the NBA and a vacation. I think Stan could have made it work with a staff of young go getters, but his buddy from the NBA was a bad choice.
We must have been going to the same bars!:lol:
And people bring up JL's losing MVC record all the time. When exactly did most of that take place?
And people bring up JL's losing MVC record all the time. When exactly did most of that take place?
Shhhh...we are only allowed to cite the records that make JL look bad!
And people bring up JL's losing MVC record all the time. When exactly did most of that take place?
Well doing a quick check on wikipedia (not certain of the validity but I don't have time to research further) 33 of Les' 74 MVC coaching losses occurred during his first three seasons as coach.
Shhhh...we are only allowed to cite the records that make JL look bad!
Granted this is a message board so communication is limited given the written format, but what does this have to do with my post stating that the majority of Stan Albeck's wins occurred during his first two years as BU coach
Simple- Since Jim Les gets blamed a lot here by his detractors (and I am not accusing you or anyone specifically) and he gets blamed for some of the players leaving Bradley in 2002 (Granger, Tucker, Tisby), then it isn't fair for fans to try to detract from Stan Albeck's success by negating the wins he had in his first couple years as if he had nothing to do with the wins, or with convincing Hawkins, Thomas, Manual, and the others to stay.
IMO, Stan was a very good X's and O's coach, and had a lot to do with the 1987 and 1988 teams' successes. His recruiting is more open to criticism, though he did recruit some very good players, including James Hamilton, who was the 1991 Freshman of the Year in the MVC, and who went on to become All Big 12 at Iowa State and played pro for many years.
IMO, Stan was a very good X's and O's coach, and had a lot to do with the 1987 and 1988 teams' successes. His recruiting is more open to criticism, though he did recruit some very good players, including James Hamilton, who was the 1991 Freshman of the Year in the MVC, and who went on to become All Big 12 at Iowa State and played pro for many years.
I said the majority of his losing record....I don't believe I ever mentioned anything about the number of losses. If that's what we're looking at, then he has more than twice as many victories in the last five seasons as he did during the first three.
21 - 33 (.388) - 2002-2005
49 - 41 (.544) - 2005-2010
Well for the record, I am a strong supporter of JL. Always have been... However, I am extremely alarmed as to what I saw and did not see last Saturday:!: I also support BRADLEY to win regardless of my feelings toward the coach. Some of the coaches, I have not held in high regard (DV) even though I loved his teams in the 1980's!
Well I think that it is fair to look at records from an historic perspective. It happens at all levels of sports. Bill James the baseball historian/statistician has made a living at analyzing performance and records. I liked Stan the person, and realize that he had a big part in saving the program and keeping Hawkins et al here, however, I honestly think that Albeck was not a very good x's and o's coach. If you break down Albeck's record at BU further, you will see that 34% of his 75 wins occurred in 1 year. 1987-88 26-5 record.