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recruiting

Beninator said:
In what ways? You may be surprised by my response.;-)
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Well, he only had a couple good years, didn't win more than one NCAA game, and got run off by the NCAA. Any time BU makes the LA times for something like this: http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-15/sports/sp-21153_1_bradley-university I am not a fan of that coach.

Learning about DV when I was a young BU BBall fan he was exactly the kind of coach I couldn't stand (get a school violations then leave for the pros). At least Pete Carol gave USC some rings.


I'm scared to be posting this.
 
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There are very few 6'10 t0 7' players that are jrs in high school that are in control of thier body....I am excited that Wells could pan out....if he wasn't a project the Braves would not of had a chance of getting him to come here! He will be a sr this season and get more PT....who knows how good he will be be but I am excited about talking a chance on a 7'1 kid who is already a qualifier and weighs 215 now, after the red/shirt this kid could shatter the block shot record with almost 200 blocks from the soph & jr seasons!
 
Big Mike said:
There are very few 6'10 t0 7' players that are jrs in high school that are in control of thier body....I am excited that Wells could pan out....if he wasn't a project the Braves would not of had a chance of getting him to come here! He will be a sr this season and get more PT....who knows how good he will be be but I am excited about talking a chance on a 7'1 kid who is already a qualifier and weighs 215 now, after the red/shirt this kid could shatter the block shot record with almost 200 blocks from the soph & jr seasons!
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Just take a look at JP in Big Mike's post...a year of strength training did him WONDERS...now if this young man apply's himself like JP did, good things could happen

...agree with you Mike...if he was not a project BU would be on the outside lookin in...
 
amckillip said:
Well, he only had a couple good years, didn't win a single NCAA game, and got run off by the NCAA. Any time BU makes the LA times for something like this: http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-15/sports/sp-21153_1_bradley-university I am not a fan of that coach.

Learning about DV when I was a young BU BBall fan he was exactly the kind of coach I couldn't stand (get a school violations then leave for the pros). At least Pete Carol gave USC some rings.


I'm scared to be posting this.
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In all fairness, DV won the NIT when that tournament still meant something. I am not the greatest DV fan, but that team was shafted by the NCAA! DV did get a first round NCAA win in 1986 vs Texas El Paso and lost in the second round to Louisville which eventually won the NCAA's. I will admit that DV did some good things on the Hilltop. He brought us back to the national spotlight and left the team almost in ruins. I never thought that DV was the greatest x's and o's coach and his recruiting tactics were a bit on the shady side.
Let the fireworks begin!
 
amckillip said:
I would debate that point, but I know what you mean.
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Again in all fairness.. I believe that the NCAA tournament had only 48 teams back then. If the NCAA had the field of 64 then as now, that team does some damage in the tournament. Just trying to present the other side as I am not the biggest DV fan. Although I know that a lot of his players loved to play for him.
 
Beninator said:
In all fairness, DV won the NIT when that tournament still meant something. I am not the greatest DV fan, but that team was shafted by the NCAA! DV did get a first round NCAA win in 1986 vs Texas El Paso and lost in the second round to Louisville which eventually won the NCAA's. I will admit that DV did some good things on the Hilltop. He brought us back to the national spotlight and left the team almost in ruins. I never thought that DV was the greatest x's and o's coach and his recruiting tactics were a bit on the shady side.
Let the fireworks begin!
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He also took a Bradley program in 1979-80 that had one 9 games the year before, to a Valley tourney title and an appearance in the NCAA's.

It can be debated that he left BU in ruins, but he took over a pretty broken down product. The NCAA punishment and violations by todays standards are pretty weak, even by those days standards they were weak.

I pretty much grew up during the Versace era and I for one will never forget the excitement of Bradley Basketball during the time DV was there and I am glad he became part of the history of Bradley.

The leaving the program in ruins phrase is precisely reserved for Stan Albeck. He folks left Bradley in shambles even if he didnt get any NCAA violations. He should have been given a violation for the horrible impersonation of a basketball coach. He was given a gift in 88 directly from Versace.
 
amckillip said:
Well, he only had a couple good years, didn't win more than one NCAA game, and got run off by the NCAA. Any time BU makes the LA times for something like this: http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-15/sports/sp-21153_1_bradley-university I am not a fan of that coach.

Learning about DV when I was a young BU BBall fan he was exactly the kind of coach I couldn't stand (get a school violations then leave for the pros). At least Pete Carol gave USC some rings.


I'm scared to be posting this.
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Dick Versace put Bradley basketball back on the map and he did break some rules but they were not big and should not have been penalized as much except that they were little BU and should not be competing against the big boys so we will teach them a lesson, had Bradley fought this they could have stayed on top for a very long time, he recruited good tough nose basketball players and won championships, Albeck and his staff came in and tore everything apart and was a bad choice in the long run, by the way Dick was forced out by our Pres. and athletic director.
 
houstontxbrave said:
He also took a Bradley program in 1979-80 that had one 9 games the year before, to a Valley tourney title and an appearance in the NCAA's.

It can be debated that he left BU in ruins, but he took over a pretty broken down product. The NCAA punishment and violations by todays standards are pretty weak, even by those days standards they were weak.

I pretty much grew up during the Versace era and I for one will never forget the excitement of Bradley Basketball during the time DV was there and I am glad he became part of the history of Bradley.

The leaving the program in ruins phrase is precisely reserved for Stan Albeck. He folks left Bradley in shambles even if he didnt get any NCAA violations. He should have been given a violation for the horrible impersonation of a basketball coach. He was given a gift in 88 directly from Versace.
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You will not get a debate from me about Albeck, however the downward spiral began when DV left BU. As for what happened after 1979-80, you might want to check out the money allocated to recruiting after 1979-80. I think that you will find that the budget was much more generous.
 
Recruiting---Dick Versace

Recruiting---Dick Versace

DV was a great college coach who brought BU back after years of mediocrity. The success, achievements, excitement, recruiting, etc. in the DV era was unparalleled.

Mitchel Anderson, David Thirdkill, Voyce Winters, Anthony Manual, Jim Les, Donald Reese, Willie Scott, Hersey Hawkins, Etc., Etc. The list goes on and on----We havn't come close to this kind of recruiting since DV was sold out and served up to the NCAA by an administration that was terrified of the high profile and occasional controvery of that era and settled for a more mundane, boring, safe, and mediocre program instead.

Had DV stayed, we almost certainly would have been in the Butler, Gonzaga class and perhaps even better! Dick was loved by his players and was a master at welding a cohesive, together team where every player understood and accepted their role and "bought in" 100% to what he and Tony B. wanted.

His practices were open to fans, he was out in the community , and not at all reclusive or secretive regarding his program.

Albeck was an interem "Finger in the dike" guy who was brought in by Fergie to keep the team (and Hawkins) from leaving after the administration refused to back up their coach. Fergies tactic worked but Albeck was an awful coach and was replaced by Molinari who did a pretty job of repairing the damage but never reached the lofty heights of the program under DV.
 
wizard said:
was replaced by Molinari who did a pretty job of repairing the damage but never reached the lofty heights of the program under DV.
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You know I think Moinari did a great job at BU, he brought in even at the end guys like Granger, Tisby had Grundy etc. I still say if Robinson does not get hurt in the Valley Tourney that team plays in the NCAA tourney.

Overall his tenure was more successful then DV. DV had a few very lean years after the program left the Fieldhouse and moved to Carver.

Yes the budget for recruiting likely increased from Stowell to DV but DV required it, I dont know if Stowell ever went and said he needed more money. Regardless Bradley's transformation from Stowell to DV was incredible and pretty quick.
 
Beninator said:
You will not get a debate from me about Albeck, however the downward spiral began when DV left BU. As for what happened after 1979-80, you might want to check out the money allocated to recruiting after 1979-80. I think that you will find that the budget was much more generous.
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Benniator what are you talking about the downward spiral began when DV left BU? Of course it did but it was not immediate. Even in '89 with Jackson and Manuel we were ok, it all went sideways when Albeck started briniging in his recruits, Versace had nothing to do with anything after '89. The downward spiral begin and was big time in '90 and that was all on Albeck.
 
Recruiting---DV

Recruiting---DV

Some more ancient history to correct some poorly grounded and incorrect statements by a couple of you guys----

First, The Athletic Director at the time had nothing to do with DVs firing. This was done 100% on direct orders from the President.

Secondly---The violations were very small and really didn't amount to much. I was there and I know so trust what I say!

Three---BU went to 2 NCAAs---1980 and 1986 and in 1988 with a team of Versace recruits.

Fourth--- DV didn't leave the team in "shambles". The players were going to leave on their own after DVs bad treatment by BU. Fergie saved the day and they stayed. .

Fifth---The NIT in 1982 was tough as Hell! We beat American U., Syracuse at their Carrier Dome, Tulane, Oklahoma, and Purdure who had a 6-10 All American in Russell Cross! BUs average winning margin was 13 points---No one else even came close.
 
houstontxbrave said:
Benniator what are you talking about the downward spiral began when DV left BU? Of course it did but it was not immediate. Even in '89 with Jackson and Manuel we were ok, it all went sideways when Albeck started briniging in his recruits, Versace had nothing to do with anything after '89. The downward spiral begin and was big time in '90 and that was all on Albeck.
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Don't you think that the quality of recruits went down as a result of the NCAA sanctions? I do. Recruiting is a process that doesn't happen overnight. It is pretty tough for a school to recruit with that cloud overhead and even a little after the sanctions have been cleared. By saying this, I am not sticking up for Albeck.
 
wizard said:
Some more ancient history to correct some poorly grounded and incorrect statements by a couple of you guys----

First, The Athletic Director at the time had nothing to do with DVs firing. This was done 100% on direct orders from the President.

Secondly---The violations were very small and really didn't amount to much. I was there and I know so trust what I say!

Three---BU went to 2 NCAAs---1980 and 1986 and in 1988 with a team of Versace recruits.

Fourth--- DV didn't leave the team in "shambles". The players were going to leave on their own after DVs bad treatment by BU. Fergie saved the day and they stayed. .

Fifth---The NIT in 1982 was tough as Hell! We beat American U., Syracuse at their Carrier Dome, Tulane, Oklahoma, and Purdure who had a 6-10 All American in Russell Cross! BUs average winning margin was 13 points---No one else even came close.
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I agree with everything you have stated here wizard. It was no secret that Versace and Abegg did not get along...... AT ALL. This was the "gift" that Abegg had been looking for so that he could justify getting rid of Versace. If he could have done it sooner he would have.

There were many "rumors" floating around about Versace during those years involving recruiting and cheerleaders. In addition, Abegg was a very low key and "stand up" guy. He did not appreciate Versace's high profile and arrogance and was deeply bothered by BU's academic reputation and ethical integrity being denigrated by Versace's actions.

If there was any fault to BU's downfall after Versace it should be placed squarely on the BU Administration as they decided to go a "different direction" with the "profile" of BU Basketball.
 
wizard said:
Fourth--- DV didn't leave the team in "shambles". The players were going to leave on their own after DVs bad treatment by BU. Fergie saved the day and they stayed. .
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I have to disagree on this point as BU was not able to recruit quality players to replace the DV recruits after they graduated. This was a direct result of the NCAA sanctions on BU. While the team was in good shape in the short term as a result of Ferguson's actions, the long term outlook of BU basketball after DV was in shambles.
 
Beninator said:
Don't you think that the quality of recruits went down as a result of the NCAA sanctions? I do. Recruiting is a process that doesn't happen overnight. It is pretty tough for a school to recruit with that cloud overhead and even a little after the sanctions have been cleared. By saying this, I am not sticking up for Albeck.
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Beninator, honestly I have no idea about the recruits and the effect of the sanctions because Stan Albeck was MIA all the time. To me he literally was one of the worst overall head coaches to have ever coached a D1 program. His involvement was minimal to never.

I think any downturn in the quality of recruit brought to Bradley was directly related to the efforts of Stan Albeck. I wish I had never had to watch one Bradley game with him or that stupid can of diet coke. I dont care about 88 either that was a gift to Stan all he had to do was get out of the way and thank god he did.

I agree it is tough to recruit because of sanctions but those sanctions were imposed in 86-87, we fell apart in 89-90 right when all of Versaces recruits left and Stan had to do work. The guys Stan would have recruited were Freshman and Sophs and in 8th grade when it happened. If there would have been effort I dont think the NCAA stuff would have been an issue at that time.

On the other hand it was a little silly to have Versace coach as a lame duck coach. There are lots of fingers that can be pointed in that era of BU basketball.
 
Stan did know how to coach. Its incorrect to suggest we could have sent our players out on the floor and the wins would have happened without any coaching. Stan instituted the right offense for that team, and was able to make adjustments to the defensive tricks other MVC coaches used to defend Hersey and the others. He has a winning record as an NBA coach and as a college coach, that doesn't happen without the ability to coach.
 
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