Rebounding Issue

[BradleyBrave]

We are going to continue to have rebounding problems until Coach Les stops playing his 4 guard offense. Andrew Warren and Chris Roberts can't rebound against guys 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier. I really hope we start playing Taylor Brown at the 4 along with Milo instead of Roberts and Warren.

I am with maj 100%, and not having Taylor Brown is no excuse. There's not one reason that SS and WE couldn't play at the same time. Not one. It doesn't take a basketball savant to understand that when you play 4 guys 6'4" and under in Division I basketball, you're going to lose on the boards. I've seen high school teams put more size on the floor than we had yesterday. It nearly cost us a game.

 

[Out of Balance]

I guess I've seen this story happen too many times to think that getting TB back is going to solve Bradley's rebounding problems.

What happens when TB is on the bench? The guy is aggressive and around the ball alot. He's going to pick up fouls.

Rebounding has been the nemesis of this program since O'Bryant left early. Those 21-22 seasons would have been better with just an extra rebounder or two.

Back to the same O, same O, 4 guards:roll: Its not that we don't have bigs that could play the 4 also but it's JL choice to play guards:razz: So unless all these guards realize that it's their job to hit the boards also, not just to watch or launch shots, there will always be a rebounding problem with this team:!:

 

[Out of Balance]

i am with maj 100%, and not having taylor brown is no excuse. There's not one reason that ss and we couldn't play at the same time. Not one. It doesn't take a basketball savant to understand that when you play 4 guys 6'4" and under in division i basketball, you're going to lose on the boards. I've seen high school teams put more size on the floor than we had yesterday. It nearly cost us a game.

you bet:!: 100% in agreement here:!:

 

[ph]

Back to the same O, same O, 4 guards:roll: Its not that we don't have bigs that could play the 4 also but it's JL choice to play guards:razz: So unless all these guards realize that it's their job to hit the boards also, not just to watch or launch shots, there will always be a rebounding problem with this team:!:

On the radio show this AM, Dan asked JL about playing one of our other 3 bigs as backup at the 4. JL said that he is very unhappy with the current (lack of) production from WE, SS and AT, so there is essentially no reason to reward that with more total minutes at the 4

He also mentioned that as a team we have spend a great deal of time on box-out drills and then a game comes and we forget and let ourselves get pushed around..

 

[BradleyBrave]

He also mentioned that as a team we have spend a great deal of time on box-out drills and then a game comes and we forget and let ourselves get pushed around..

Sounds like lip service to me. A player who's still on the roster told me a few years ago that they never work on rebounding in practice, that they don't box out, and just try to outjump people. Granted, this was a few years ago, but the proof is in the pudding on the court year after year. But I will add that a bunch of guys 6'4" or shorter aren't going to outrebound too many people whether they're boxing out or not.

 

[BuAlum03]

a bunch of 6'4 guys, when boxing out properly, are going to get their fair share of boards, but not as many as a couple 6'9" and taller guys who are boxing out properly. The whole team needs to box out. And they need to follow their shots. I saw a certain guard start running back a few times after releasing his long jumper, only to have the ball go to where he was. If a guy doesn't have the energy to crash the boards then hustle back on defense, perhaps he should get a couple more breathers during the game.

I'd really like to see AT play some time at the 4, where his slender frame won't be such a liability. I do understand coach's statement about not wanting to reward guys with PT when they don't earn it, but I don't feel confident we can shoot 50% from the 3 point line as consistently as we'd need to while being at such a rebounding disadvantage.

TB coming back will help, a lot. But games where he's in foul trouble, we'll be facing this problem again.

 

[lefty]

I agree with the posters in regard to everyone boxing out. TB will help but all five need to box out when necessary.......

 

[Buesch N Chips]

a bunch of 6'4 guys, when boxing out properly, are going to get their fair share of boards

And will also help the other team get into foul trouble with over the back calls.

 

[Out of Balance]

On the radio show this AM, Dan asked JL about playing one of our other 3 bigs as backup at the 4. JL said that he is very unhappy with the current (lack of) production from WE, SS and AT, so there is essentially no reason to reward that with more total minutes at the 4

He also mentioned that as a team we have spend a great deal of time on box-out drills and then a game comes and we forget and let ourselves get pushed around..

Ha, he is the coach. We been watching and talking about this problem for years now. If there is not a wanting to open new doors to correct the problem, then whats another year of talking about it and watching it:!: Just happy for a win:!::biggrin:

 

[shaunguth]

I am with maj 100%, and not having Taylor Brown is no excuse. There's not one reason that SS and WE couldn't play at the same time. Not one. It doesn't take a basketball savant to understand that when you play 4 guys 6'4" and under in Division I basketball, you're going to lose on the boards. I've seen high school teams put more size on the floor than we had yesterday. It nearly cost us a game.

Agreed......and PLEASE stop playing SM, EM, and DSE at the same time! I've seen it in each of the first two games and really don't see the need for it at all!

 

[BradleyBrave]

On the radio show this AM, Dan asked JL about playing one of our other 3 bigs as backup at the 4. JL said that he is very unhappy with the current (lack of) production from WE, SS and AT, so there is essentially no reason to reward that with more total minutes at the 4

Gotta call JL for 'BS' right here. It's hard to produce when you're sitting on the bench. AT got 3 minutes yesterday. It's hard to produce on either end when that's all you get. Will got 18, SS got 19, and AT got 3. That adds up to 40 which means not once, despite getting blasted on the boards, did we try 2 of them in at the same time. I see both WE and SS as our 2nd leading rebounders, despite playing less minutes than 6 other players. So, where's the accountability for those other guys when it comes to boxing out and rebounding? Andrew Warren is the only player that outrebounded WE and SS, which tells me that the others on the floor weren't doing their jobs. Yet our bigs are the ones being held accountable. Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[Beninator]

Gotta call JL for 'BS' right here. It's hard to produce when you're sitting on the bench. AT got 3 minutes yesterday. It's hard to produce on either end when that's all you get. Will got 18, SS got 19, and AT got 3. That adds up to 40 which means not once, despite getting blasted on the boards, did we try 2 of them in at the same time. I see both WE and SS as our 2nd leading rebounders, despite playing less minutes than 6 other players. So, where's the accountability for those other guys when it comes to boxing out and rebounding? Andrew Warren is the only player that outrebounded WE and SS, which tells me that the others on the floor weren't doing their jobs. Yet our bigs are the ones being held accountable. Yeah, that makes sense.

Bradleybrave, I think that we are in complete agreement that we need to try 2 bigs in the lineup at the same time. See my post on the starting lineup on another thread. My feeling is that we should try putting WE and AT in the lineup at the same time. We have one more game (Wofford) in which we can try experimenting with this!

 

[AZ BU Fan]

I am with maj 100%, and not having Taylor Brown is no excuse. There's not one reason that SS and WE couldn't play at the same time. Not one. It doesn't take a basketball savant to understand that when you play 4 guys 6'4" and under in Division I basketball, you're going to lose on the boards. I've seen high school teams put more size on the floor than we had yesterday. It nearly cost us a game.

Agree 100%

 

[AZ BU Fan]

Gotta call JL for 'BS' right here. It's hard to produce when you're sitting on the bench. AT got 3 minutes yesterday. It's hard to produce on either end when that's all you get. Will got 18, SS got 19, and AT got 3. That adds up to 40 which means not once, despite getting blasted on the boards, did we try 2 of them in at the same time. I see both WE and SS as our 2nd leading rebounders, despite playing less minutes than 6 other players. So, where's the accountability for those other guys when it comes to boxing out and rebounding? Andrew Warren is the only player that outrebounded WE and SS, which tells me that the others on the floor weren't doing their jobs. Yet our bigs are the ones being held accountable. Yeah, that makes sense.

Agree 100% here too BB.

All I can think of is there must be some 'fuzzy' logic that goes something like this: shoot and make enough 3's and FT's and you can beat other teams who make the same number, or more, of 2 pt baskets even with lots of put backs increasing opponents shooting pct.

 

[BU RICK]

What we are lacking on the bench is a bigs coach and someone to get in JL's ear during the games and help him out, like we did have during the S16 season. Do you think we could get Taylor's Dad to come up for a few months. And how about Joe Stowell to help show the guards how to pass the ball into the post.

 

[SFP]

I'm here right now to say CR or AW should never be playing the 4! They are undersized to ever be considered playing the 4 or even guarding the 4 player on just about any D-I team. There is a great chance of them getting injured playing and bouncing off bigger guys as well as it takes a lot more out of them on D which will take away from them on O. I'd like to see WE play a few minutes at the 4 occasionally, while SS or AT takes control of the 5 if MK is not ready to contribute.

 

[SaintLouBrave22]

Gosh, that almost makes you think that Looney Les (yes, I did say that) will eventually go with a 5 guard lineup or 4 guards and Taylor in the middle...


Very sad that he's so incredibly disinterested w/ players taller than 6'4" that he plans on being outrebounded and massacred in the paint night in and night out.


Some teams can get lucky and win with a 3 guard lineup, but no one plays or wins with 4 guards...and yes, you can look that up and try to prove me wrong, but I'm certain you'll find nothing.


We will NEVER win a Valley title playing this small...after this many years coaching, you'd figure he'd know this by now, but then again as I stated earlier, he still doesn't understand substitution patterns and player rotations and simply put, HE and not the opposing team breaks our momentum most of the time...

Why when you have ~10 pt lead would you sub in 3 guys, 2 of which who can't score?!


I'll just finish with this...


IF we continue with this 4 guard nonsense....

IF he continues to deflate our runs by sitting down a player (Warren) or group of players on streaks...

IF he believes that this continuosly terrible defense which has given up more wide open 3's and layups in the last 2-3 years than they EVER did with Coach CBuescher when he coached the D...


Then 6th place is about right.

 

[BradleyBrave]

Gosh, that almost makes you think that Looney Les (yes, I did say that) will eventually go with a 5 guard lineup or 4 guards and Taylor in the middle...


Very sad that he's so incredibly disinterested w/ players taller than 6'4" that he plans on being outrebounded and massacred in the paint night in and night out.


Some teams can get lucky and win with a 3 guard lineup, but no one plays or wins with 4 guards...and yes, you can look that up and try to prove me wrong, but I'm certain you'll find nothing.


We will NEVER win a Valley title playing this small...after this many years coaching, you'd figure he'd know this by now, but then again as I stated earlier, he still doesn't understand substitution patterns and player rotations and simply put, HE and not the opposing team breaks our momentum most of the time...

Why when you have ~10 pt lead would you sub in 3 guys, 2 of which who can't score?!


I'll just finish with this...


IF we continue with this 4 guard nonsense....

IF he continues to deflate our runs by sitting down a player (Warren) or group of players on streaks...

IF he believes that this continuosly terrible defense which has given up more wide open 3's and layups in the last 2-3 years than they EVER did with Coach CBuescher when he coached the D...


Then 6th place is about right.

Yup.

FWIW, the only player I saw cut off the baseline last night (a fundamental defensive principle taught in junior high) was DSE. I predict by year's end he isn't doing that anymore.

 

[BU_EMT128]

I definately agree with this SFP. Just like the offense revolved around Hawk, A. Parker, and other former Braves studs it needs to start with AW. BU NEEDS to find a way to make AW a star. I think a mid-major team almost always needs to have one star player to have a successful season. We need to get back to the days of having a team leader who averages 20+ ppg.

AW is a player who can take over a game and put a team on his back for a few minutes. He will be a HUGE key to our success this year.

 

[Braves4Life]

We will NEVER win a Valley title playing this small...after this many years coaching, you'd figure he'd know this by now.

Let me ask you this SLB. Do YOU have confidence in our bigs? Are they THAT impressive where you'd like to see 2 or 3 on the floor at the same time?

IMO, I think if you had any combination of AT, WE, SS, or MK on the floor at the same time (for an extended period) it would be a disaster. With the lack of footwork and foot speed you would have guys tripping all over themselves. Guys would be on the floor and it would look like a goal-line stand in football. I'm just not ready for the "matador" defense right now. And I prefer not to watch houses being built with all the bricks that would be thrown up.

JL knows his best chance to win is to play 4 athletic guys at the same time with one of the bigs. He'll go with 2 "smalls", 2 "mediums", and one "big". Or, we'll occasionally see 3 "smalls", 1 "medium", and 1 "big". Hopefully, our bigs can develop and earn JL's (and the other players) confidence during practice and earn their minutes.

Now, if this is a reflection of poor recruiting then so be it. But JL is just playing with the hand he's been dealt (and he's the dealer). As Herm Edwards so famously said: "You play to win the game!"