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Positive thinking!!!

Then why do you not respect their opinion?

Perhaps it's belittling comments like this:

BB, you and others who would like to see a coaching change always assume the outcome will immediately be better. That assumption is questionable. There is no guarantee a new coach will turn Bradley into a winner immediately (e.g. this is Marty Simmons' 4th season, Chris Lowery's 7th season).
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That get in the way of honest debate.

But I suppose I just got this thread cheesed. **** honesty.
 
bustudent said:
I think rebuilding is what many people realize comes with a new coach, and people are ready for it. It is hard to watch what is essentially the same system being run for the past 3 or 4 years and see the results decline each year. Im just not sure we could have any worse of a season with a rebuilding project than what we have now. We are going to struggle greatly to even reach double digit wins this year and in my mind that is about as close to the bottom as you can get.
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And are you certain it is all due to the coaching and nothing else, because only then will a change of coaches stand any chance of changing it.
You don't think some of the reason for the team's performance is the season-ending medical issues to 2 All-MVC players? perhaps the top point guard in the MVC and one of the top inside players in the league?
 
Chico said:
it's hard to be negative about the only show in town during the Winter months.
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Sorry about your loss mex. Always hard to lose a loved one.

Not trying to hijack the thread, and sorry mex if it comes out that way, but the Braves' co-inhabitants of Carver Arena also play in the winter and are putting a much better quality product out on the ice every night and are in the top 2 of their conference with numerous NHL call ups. I think the Rivermen have played maybe a couple weeks with their whole lineup? The Rivermen would kill for the support the Braves get, they cant give away tickets fast enough, and they are in FIRST PLACE!
 
And how did we finish last year with both of them?

4th in the valley and I believe right around 500 for the season with no post season.

I believe at some point someone has to be accountable and I'm sorry but it's him. Yes, this team is down quite a bit of talent, but they don't know how to gut it out and win a game ugly, tonight and drake being perfect examples and the coach has to be the one to teach them
 
squirrelgotdead said:
Then why do you not respect their opinion?

Perhaps it's belittling comments like this:



That get in the way of honest debate.

But I suppose I just got this thread cheesed. **** honesty.
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Sorry- I don't think we are even talking about the same thing. I see nothing in what you are citing that belittles anyone or rips them for their opinions. Just a simple alternate opinion. The fact is that some fans want a change just for the sake of change. Do you deny that? I can cite numerous examples on this board, and on other boards. All I said was that there is no guarantee a new coach would be better.
If you are trying to make me into a hater for that, then I just don't buy it.

Go ahead and attack me all you want. But I think you need to find something better than that to make me into a villain. :)
 
Don't stay up too late DC, you need your rest! Takes a lot of energy to keep this forum afloat...

Come back and wipe out all the dirt tomorrow morning! You have to be exhausted removing all the junk I posted tonight in my hissy fit! ;-);-)
 
Da Coach said:
Sorry- I don't think we are even talking about the same thing. I see nothing in what you are citing that belittles anyone or rips them for their opinions. Just a simple alternate opinion. The fact is that some fans want a change just for the sake of change. Do you deny that? I can cite numerous examples on this board, and on other boards. All I said was that there is no guarantee a new coach would be better.
If you are trying to make me into a hater for that, then I just don't buy it.

Go ahead and attack me all you want. But I think you need to find something better than that to make me into a villain. :)
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I am not calling you a hater or villain or anything like that.

But when you say highly intelligent people with excellent basketball minds and bleed Bradley red "assume" that a change in coach would guarantee success is not only dishonest and misleading, it indicates you think very little of their opinion...that it is not valid.

And I say this as someone who has had EPIC disagreements with Bradley Brave going back 10+ years.
 
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squirrelgotdead said:
...But when you say... that a change in coach would guarantee success ....
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In the Jim Les era and possibly even further back-- as I have noted, not one Valley team except possibly BU -- who fired their coach and hired a new one can legitimately say they got better and none except BU has ever won an NCAA game.
So when I see opinions on the board that appear to think it happens all the time .. I feel compelled to correct those errors.
Even those claiming MSU is lots better -- have a severe memory deficit -- since Missouri State under Barry were not only just as good, and had better RPI, quality NBA-caliber players, and just remember who recruited all those players Cuonzo is winning with -- let's just see how he does when he loses the guys that fell in his lap.
 
4 of Cuonzo's 5 starters are seniors and will be gone next season.
A check of their roster suggests they will see a falloff.
 
tornado said:
In the Jim Les era and possibly even further back-- as I have noted, not one Valley team except possibly BU -- who fired their coach and hired a new one can legitimately say they got better and none except BU has ever won an NCAA game.
So when I see opinions on the board that appear to think it happens all the time .. I feel compelled to correct those errors.
Even those claiming MSU is lots better -- have a severe memory deficit -- since Missouri State under Barry were not only just as good, and had better RPI, quality NBA-caliber players, and just remember who recruited all those players Cuonzo is winning with -- let's just see how he does when he loses the guys that fell in his lap.
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And the thing is, NO ONE has produced the kind of success at BU that those most advocating a change are seeking.
 
tornado said:
In the Jim Les era and possibly even further back-- as I have noted, not one Valley team except possibly BU -- who fired their coach and hired a new one can legitimately say they got better and none except BU has ever won an NCAA game.
So when I see opinions on the board that appear to think it happens all the time .. I feel compelled to correct those errors.
Even those claiming MSU is lots better -- have a severe memory deficit -- since Missouri State under Barry were not only just as good, and had better RPI, quality NBA-caliber players, and just remember who recruited all those players Cuonzo is winning with -- let's just see how he does when he loses the guys that fell in his lap.
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Tornado,
I believe your time frame is too short....

We either have a difference of opinion here...
 
Buesch N Chips said:
And the thing is, NO ONE has produced the kind of success at BU that those most advocating a change are seeking.
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Dick Versace did - 3 titles, 3 top 3 finishes in 8 seasons. I like your defeatist attitude though that we can't possibly have that kind of success anymore.

But to your point, how about success in line with previous coaches? Not one has a conference record this bad, not even Stan. Stan was 10 over in league play, and he was terrible!
 
tornado said:
In the Jim Les era and possibly even further back-- as I have noted, not one Valley team except possibly BU -- who fired their coach and hired a new one can legitimately say they got better and none except BU has ever won an NCAA game.
So when I see opinions on the board that appear to think it happens all the time .. I feel compelled to correct those errors.
Even those claiming MSU is lots better -- have a severe memory deficit -- since Missouri State under Barry were not only just as good, and had better RPI, quality NBA-caliber players, and just remember who recruited all those players Cuonzo is winning with -- let's just see how he does when he loses the guys that fell in his lap.
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Yup...status quo is the way to go! Just wait!
 
Da Coach said:
And are you certain it is all due to the coaching and nothing else, because only then will a change of coaches stand any chance of changing it.
You don't think some of the reason for the team's performance is the season-ending medical issues to 2 All-MVC players? perhaps the top point guard in the MVC and one of the top inside players in the league?
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Season long, the injuries are ONE of the issues facing Bradley.

However, Bradley didn't lose last night because of those injuries. Player injuries from earlier in the season do not cause teams to blow massive, late, home leads to a 1 win conference team last night.
 
I think they would win easily last night with Sammy and TB. So in that sense, IMO the injuries played a very key part.
 
Da Coach said:
I think they would win easily last night with Sammy and TB. So in that sense, IMO the injuries played a very key part.
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So not having SM and TB is the reason the players on the floor missed 4 key ft's and couldn't defend anyone in OT??

WOW:eek:


So if we were to win a game later this season is that because of SM and TB? Or do you then credit the players and coaches on the floor?
 
BradleyBrave said:
Dick Versace did - 3 titles, 3 top 3 finishes in 8 seasons. I like your defeatist attitude though that we can't possibly have that kind of success anymore.

But to your point, how about success in line with previous coaches? Not one has a conference record this bad, not even Stan. Stan was 10 over in league play, and he was terrible!
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Yep, DV did with JJ and Hersey. And he also broke the rules.

Jim Les may deserve to be fired, but not doing what has never been done should not be the reason.

From another thread...

Record Without an NBA Player (JJ, HH, AP, POB)
Versace 31-26
Albeck 32-54
Molinari 92-113
Les 113-105

That stat does not tell the whole story of their tenure, obviously, but it is valid nonetheless.
 
Buesch N Chips said:
Yep, DV did with JJ and Hersey. And he also broke the rules.

Jim Les may deserve to be fired, but not doing what has never been done should not be the reason.

From another thread...

Record Without an NBA Player (JJ, HH, AP, POB)
Versace 31-26
Albeck 32-54
Molinari 92-113
Les 113-105

That stat does not tell the whole story of their tenure, obviously, but it is valid nonetheless.
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You can look at a lot of situations...one could also argue both AP and POB were not NBA-ready while collegiates...

You can also look at BU coaches hired who had DI experience vs. those who were hired with none, and you get some interesting numbers...


With DI experience:
-17 years at Bradley
-2 MVC Championships (not in MVC Forddy's last 3 years)
-3 NCAA appearances
-2 National Championship game appearances
-5 2nd place finishes
-1 NIT Championship appearance

Without DI experience:
-45 combined years
-5 MVC Championships
-5 NCAA Appearances
-4 NIT Championships & 1 more Final appearance
-7 2nd place finishes


So in theory (and that's all it is) you are basically looking at a disparity of:

-1 MVC title every 7 years vs. every 9
-1 NCAA appearance every 5.6 years vs. every 9
-2nd place finishes every 2.8 years vs. every 6.4
 
Buesch N Chips said:
And the thing is, NO ONE has produced the kind of success at BU that those most advocating a change are seeking.
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Wait, so let me get this straight...

You two are basically advocating that we should just expect mediocrity because there's no way anyone we bring in will have remotely a shot at winning any conference titles or tournament titles?!


Wow, I guess we should just give up then, pack it in, and move to DII
 
You know...

It would be nice one year to be looked at with the target on our backs for a change...

It would be nice for me to be able to make a drive to Scottrade and feel like short of a collapse, we ARE the team to beat in the tournament and our chances of winning it are great...

It would be nice to feel confident going into every game at Carver that we're gonna whip our opponent from bell to bell...


None of those things are happening right now and none are likely in the near future...

Heck, our only luck this year is figuring out how to do so poorly that we got out of the bracket with the #1 seed...


That said, I am positive....positive that if this keeps going the way it's going, it will keep me from spending any more money on the program in the interim, and that a change must and will be made in the future!

Whether it makes us better, I don't know, but I am POSITIVE it can't be any worse than this!
 
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