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OT: Caterpillar threatening to leave Illinois!

I'm with you on this one Chico. I spent 37 1/2 years and retired at 55 and I would do it again but if someone hires in at 32 and retires at 62 with 30 years they get a full retirement. Not in my case but I knew it when I went out that doesn't mean I have to like it but that's the way it is. I won't get started on our health insurance because a lot of people have it a whole lot worse than we do but we were led to believe we would be taken care of for the rest of our lives and that's far from the truth. That's it I fell better I'm done.
 
Just a followup to what we saw happen here in Illinois...
Another state is making the same huge mistake Illinois did when they jacked up taxes...

Connecticut has decided to hike corporate taxes and hit the big businesses hard to help pay for their overspending -
almost instantly their three largest employers (General Electric, Aetna, Travelers) are looking to move out of the state

Everyone seems stunned that these corporations don't want to pay increased taxes and they seem taken completely by surprise that this plan of jacking taxes up is actually hurting the state badly.

http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/GE-says-new-taxes-could-force-it-out-of-6299776.php
http://www.courant.com/business/dan...ry-technology-taxes-0602-20150601-column.html
http://www.courant.com/politics/cap...tes-liquor-changes-20150601-story.html#page=1
http://gov.cbia.com/inside_the_capitol/article/lawmakers-must-reverse-direction-on-budget

some of the major corporations already "have one foot out the door"
http://www.ctnewsjunkie.com/archive...ge_businesses_suggest_they_already_have_one_/


Connecticut used to be one of the richest and most stable economies in the US but now ranks 50th economically...
http://www.cato.org/publications/co...morph-one-americas-worst-performing-economies
 
tornado said:
Just a followup to what we saw happen here in Illinois...
Another state is making the same huge mistake Illinois did when they jacked up taxes...

Connecticut has decided to hike corporate taxes and hit the big businesses hard to help pay for their overspending -
almost instantly their three largest employers (General Electric, Aetna, Travelers) are looking to move out of the state

Everyone seems stunned that these corporations don't want to pay increased taxes and they seem taken completely by surprise that this plan of jacking taxes up is actually hurting the state badly.

http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/GE-says-new-taxes-could-force-it-out-of-6299776.php
http://www.courant.com/business/dan...ry-technology-taxes-0602-20150601-column.html
http://www.courant.com/politics/cap...tes-liquor-changes-20150601-story.html#page=1
http://gov.cbia.com/inside_the_capitol/article/lawmakers-must-reverse-direction-on-budget

some of the major corporations already "have one foot out the door"
http://www.ctnewsjunkie.com/archive...ge_businesses_suggest_they_already_have_one_/


Connecticut used to be one of the richest and most stable economies in the US but now ranks 50th economically...
http://www.cato.org/publications/co...morph-one-americas-worst-performing-economies
Click to expand...

What did you see happen in Illinois? Only California has more Fortune 500 Headquarters located in their state.

Why did all these Corporations come to Illinois? Great Transportation Infrastructure, Great Workforce, Good Educational Systems, Big Cities, Medium Cities, Lots of Taxpayers. They also have gotten a lot of tax breaks from Illinois overtime. Now we ask them to pay up, and they threaten to leave. I applaud CAT for staying, but they can pay back the taxpaying residents of Illinois for the Roads, Rails, and Airways we built for them. The good schools and programs our tax money has built and allows them to recruit to an area where you can make 125K and not pay 40K a year of High School privately, or to go to 100K college. This biggest scam capitalism ever played on the US is that we need the rich, the rich need us.
 
Garland 22 said:
What did you see happen in Illinois? Only California has more Fortune 500 Headquarters located in their state.

Why did all these Corporations come to Illinois? Great Transportation Infrastructure, Great Workforce, Good Educational Systems, Big Cities, Medium Cities, Lots of Taxpayers. They also have gotten a lot of tax breaks from Illinois overtime. Now we ask them to pay up, and they threaten to leave. I applaud CAT for staying, but they can pay back the taxpaying residents of Illinois for the Roads, Rails, and Airways we built for them. The good schools and programs our tax money has built and allows them to recruit to an area where you can make 125K and not pay 40K a year of High School privately, or to go to 100K college. This biggest scam capitalism ever played on the US is that we need the rich, the rich need us.
Click to expand...

I hate to tell you but Caterpillar has been moving out for the last 30 years. They build plants in Tennessee and North Carolina now
 
I know- but never in history til recently had they ever seriously considered moving their entire corporate headquarters out of state
 
Of course they threaten to move, that way they can get more tax breaks from the state to stay! Realistically Cat probably pays very little corporate income tax, most big companies manage to avoid that.

The income tax or some other source of revenue will need to be found in Illinois this summer because even while the Guv and all the little Raunerites in the legislature are running around talking about the Democrats spending too much Rauners own budget is nearly 3 billion short as well.....they just forget to mention that!
 
SpfldBUAlum said:
...Realistically Cat probably pays very little corporate income tax...
Click to expand...

Caterpillar - like all people and all corporations - ends up paying gobs and gobs of taxes...
If you happen to find ONE that they either do not pay or that they don't pay much of - then good for you - but you lose credibility if you say that the hostile tax environment in Illinois doesn't HURT Cat and all it's employees.
Everything from sales taxes, to employment taxes, to income taxes make it harder to employ workers and produce products.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704474804576224743712760936
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...O-Threatens-to-leave-Illinois-over-tax-hikes#

Any business or corporation exists it's purpose is threefold...Economics 101...
-make products & satisfy customers
-make profit to satisfy owners, employees, shareholders
-comply with laws

if it takes leaving the state to do #1 & #2 they will -
Paying taxes and helping fill the pockets of politicians and float all their welfare & giveaways - is NOT in the Top 3 purposes of the corporation -
Just like you, me, and everyone - we want to keep what we earn and pay only what is necessary - not the ripoff tax rate pols are pushing.

You must have missed all that discussion just a couple months ago how Star Trucking gradually phased out 100% of their operations in Illinois and moved 100% to other states - just as they said IN ADVANCE that they'd do if Quinn prceeded with his BROAD tax hikes.
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=300617&highlight=star+trucking#post300617
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=307349&highlight=star+trucking#post307349

Lots of Illinoisans lost jobs and tax revenue sure doesn't go up when multimillion dollar corporations up and leave.
 
For those who may be outside Central Illinois...
the economy here just took another HUGE hit....

suddenly and without warning...
MITSUBISHI announced they are ceasing all production at their Bloomington, IL plant and closing all operations and putting the entire plant & facility up for sale...

1,200 jobs down the drain plus many, an estimated $120 million-plus to the local economy, many more offshoot and other jobs in an around the community and the economic devastation trickles down...
Mitsubishi has been the benefactor over the past couple years of almost $30 million in credits & tax breaks - and many of those favors were done for the promises of a long future of Mitsubishi in Bloomington - but now they're gone...
One business journal calls this an example of "corporate welfare flop".

Then again - local workers and lawyers have not always been kind to the major employer...
http://www.rochellesharpe.com/divid...hi-say-union-fell-short-on-sexual-harassment/

http://www.pantagraph.com/business/...cle_508b8dd2-434f-5239-b421-2339c9573e6b.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-mitsubishi-normal-0725-biz-20150724-story.html
 
tornado said:
For those who may be outside Central Illinois...
the economy here just took another HUGE hit....

suddenly and without warning...
MITSUBISHI announced they are ceasing all production at their Bloomington, IL plant and closing all operations and putting the entire plant & facility up for sale..
Click to expand...

Mitsubishi's problems extend much farther than Normal, Illinois. They are eventually planning to close down even more of their US operations (Normal is their only production factory) and concentrating on promoting their sales more in Asia and less in the US where they have been squeezed out by growth of several other Japanese car makers (Toyota, Honda, Nissen, Subaru), and the strong emergence of the Korean car makers (Kia, Hyundai). In fact, for the first time, Mitsubishi has fallen out of the top 25 auto makers in the world
http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/07/23/report-mitsubishi-to-end-production-in-us/

And their top selling model ranks only about 65th in sales in the US market!
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/05/april-2015-ytd-usa-car-sales-by-model.html

And unfortunately, the Mitsubishi Outlander SUV, which was the only model produced in Normal, does not appear in the top 150 brands sold each month in the US and Canada.
 
Da Coach said:
Mitsubishi's problems extend much farther than Normal, Illinois. They are eventually planning to close down even more of their US operations (Normal is their only production factory) and concentrating on promoting their sales more in Asia and less in the US where they have been squeezed out by growth of several other Japanese car makers (Toyota, Honda, Nissen, Subaru), and the strong emergence of the Korean car makers (Kia, Hyundai). In fact, for the first time, Mitsubishi has fallen out of the top 25 auto makers in the world
http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/07/23/report-mitsubishi-to-end-production-in-us/

And their top selling model ranks only about 65th in sales in the US market!
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/05/april-2015-ytd-usa-car-sales-by-model.html

And unfortunately, the Mitsubishi Outlander SUV, which was the only model produced in Normal, does not appear in the top 150 brands sold each month in the US and Canada.
Click to expand...

Mitsubishi has been getting their butts kicked in the U.S. by comparable Asian manufacturers Kia and Hyundai. There's only so much room in competitive sectors.
 
It's not a huge surprise, as the market share that Mitsubishi had/has in the U.S. is abysmally low. They represented just .5% of the market share in 2013, compared to 2% in in 2002. That's a difference between selling 345,000+ in 2002 versus 62,000+ in 2013.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-02-17/classified/ct-auto-mitsubishi-0213-20140213_1_mitsubishi-mirage-outlander-sport-mitsubishi-motor

I'm honestly surprised they didn't pull the plug a couple of years ago. This quote says it all, though:

"If they were going to pull out, it seems they would have already," Caldwell said. "It can't get much worse. They seem committed, despite sales and market share being so low. There's definitely infrastructure with their plant in Normal, Ill.

"The U.S. is hard to walk away from."
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what Normal can do with a 2.4 million square foot plant if another automobile manufacturer doesn't take it over? It's central location could make it a nice warehouse/distribution center.


tornado said:
For those who may be outside Central Illinois...
the economy here just took another HUGE hit....

suddenly and without warning...
MITSUBISHI announced they are ceasing all production at their Bloomington, IL plant and closing all operations and putting the entire plant & facility up for sale...

1,200 jobs down the drain plus many, an estimated $120 million-plus to the local economy, many more offshoot and other jobs in an around the community and the economic devastation trickles down...
Mitsubishi has been the benefactor over the past couple years of almost $30 million in credits & tax breaks - and many of those favors were done for the promises of a long future of Mitsubishi in Bloomington - but now they're gone...
One business journal calls this an example of "corporate welfare flop".

Then again - local workers and lawyers have not always been kind to the major employer...
http://www.rochellesharpe.com/divid...hi-say-union-fell-short-on-sexual-harassment/

http://www.pantagraph.com/business/...cle_508b8dd2-434f-5239-b421-2339c9573e6b.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-mitsubishi-normal-0725-biz-20150724-story.html
Click to expand...
 
tornado said:
well, in a way, they are "leaving Central Illinois"...job by job...
here's the next round..
http://www.cinewsnow.com/news/local/Caterpillar-begins-latest-round-of-layoffs-391659941.html

the Central IL workforce of Cat employees has plummetted from nearly 30,000 about 30 years ago to just a few thousand now...
Click to expand...


'Nuff said... :cry: #'Merica

mfg1.jpg
 
well, I am not an economist but there's real problems with that chart..

first- the mere value of a dollar has decreased almost 10-fold since 1950 so that would more than equal what gets defined as increase in manufacturing output...

So I have to wonder if that red line were adjusted for inflation, then it would be flat or more likely tail downward and parallel the employment line.

Then the scale along the right side of the chart is selectively chosen so as to make a drop from about 15 million down to 12 million (just a 25% drop) and making it look like a massive, catastrophic plunge!!
 
a huge number of high earning & high taxpaying people & businesses have left the state since Governor Quinn/Mike Madigan's tax hike disaster
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-wealth-flight-explained-in-4-graphics/

thus estimates are that the State of Illinois has lost $14 BILLION in revenue since 2011 due to those tax hikes...
...as expected, exactly the opposite of the increase in revenue that the state thought they'd be getting.
When will they ever figure out that more taxes will result in less long term revenue!! AND YET spending in that interval went way, way up!! - LINK
Tax, tax, tax - is all they know - we need extremely tight term limits and a smarter public (especially in Chicago) to vote them out!


so what are they proposing now...you guessed it...

higher taxes!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-dietrich/10-mind-numbing-facts-abo_b_9160700.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-illinois-budget-idUSKCN0ZU2IR
 
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