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Missouri Valley Conference announces change to Arch Madness

Does anyone actually think that a Belmont team who got blown out last March in their opening game by Drake
would have done any better if they got a bye all the way to Saturday? They weren't ready to play - and even if they were handed
a pass to the NCAA Tourney, I suspect they'd have been crushed in their first round game by a Big Ten 7th place team or
an SEC 9th place team.
 
Maybe only 3 positives I see in this - just focusing on the men's side...
1) Taking out the 11th team...not a huge +, but...

2) Playing for that elusive #2 seed the last 2-3 weeks of the Valley season is gonna be HUGE!
That's 2 fewer games for the top 2 seeds - gigantic advantage!

3) The biggest plus IMO - Puts a LOT more stock in the reg season for sure bc you have a REAL good shot to make the tilte game as 1-2 seed, making it all the more possible to get to the Big Dance - arguably the biggest highlight for any college player.

A lot more cons that pros tho...horrible mistake I feel! Interest is gonna go down for sure in this format.. and then throwing the women in the mix.

Geez - Doug Elgin days were great!
 
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OK-I get having the womens tournament in St Louis. Why all at one site ? Play the first two rounds of womens at another facility in St Louis-SLU, Wash U, UMSL, Maryville, Family Arena in St Charles. There are probably others. I would think renting those for 2 days would be cheaper than Enterprise Center for an additional day. They are smaller but the crowd for the women on Wed will be tiny in Enterprise Center so a smaller venue wouldn’t be bad. You could continue with last years structure and still have all 11 teams in. Combine all in Enterprise for Sat and Sunday. Continue to play Women’s first two rounds on Wed/Thursday. The biggest hassle might be for the Valley to operate 2 venues on Thursday. Tough but I would think enlisting additional help from the Schools could make that work. Let’s be honest the womens attendance would likely be 1000 people max at the alternate venue. Can you tell I hate this ?

I also wonder with this structure if you might actually add to attendance rather than decrease it.
 
houstonbrave said:
OK-I get having the womens tournament in St Louis. Why all at one site ? Play the first two rounds of womens at another facility in St Louis-SLU, Wash U, UMSL, Maryville, Family Arena in St Charles. There are probably others. I would think renting those for 2 days would be cheaper than Enterprise Center for an additional day. They are smaller but the crowd for the women on Wed will be tiny in Enterprise Center so a smaller venue wouldn’t be bad. You could continue with last years structure and still have all 11 teams in. Combine all in Enterprise for Sat and Sunday. Continue to play Women’s first two rounds on Wed/Thursday. The biggest hassle might be for the Valley to operate 2 venues on Thursday. Tough but I would think enlisting additional help from the Schools could make that work. Let’s be honest the womens attendance would likely be 1000 people max at the alternate venue. Can you tell I hate this ?

I also wonder with this structure if you might actually add to attendance rather than decrease it.
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I'm okay with a format that would have four games Saturday and two Sunday, men's and women's. That's actually pretty cool. But how we get there is just a mess.
 
Any idea yet how this impacts ticket sales? In particular all session packages? Separate packages for men’s and women’s? Or one higher priced package that includes both?
 
Maybe I missed it.. but have they said if they are doing men’s sessions, then women’s sessions on Friday and Saturday…. I really hope the sessions aren’t a men’s and women’s game in each session.
I have ZERO interest in watching the women’s game during the MVC tourney… I really wouldn’t even want to go back to ballpark village and watch the screen there… as the outcome does not even effect the men’s team
 
As I think about it (and God knows I have been thinking about it) this reminds me of Glasser not knowing or caring about our history. I’m not sure Jackson knows or cares about our history or our fans. Yes I am mad.
 
Dubl R 1 said:
Maybe I missed it.. but have they said if they are doing men’s sessions, then women’s sessions on Friday and Saturday…. I really hope the sessions aren’t a men’s and women’s game in each session.
I have ZERO interest in watching the women’s game during the MVC tourney… I really wouldn’t even want to go back to ballpark village and watch the screen there… as the outcome does not even effect the men’s team
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Let me modify this.. I would have some interest in BU’s women’s team, but if they aren’t involved my interest returns to zero if not lower than zero
 
A few days ago, I made it clear I am not a fan of the Men's format change (post #4 on the 1st page).
I am equally not a fan of the merging of the men's and women's tournaments into a totally new incarnation of Arch Madness.
Arch Madness has, for many years, been the envy of every other mid-major conference tournament, and by every measure has been highly successful, well attended, and the tournament, the venue, and the entire experience has been loved by fans.
IMO, it is a shame the commissioner and whoever else was involved, felt a need fix what was not broken, and go further by by overhauling the entire tournament experience. Jeff Jackson stated that these changes "enhance" Arch Madness, and improves the MVC chances of getting multiple NCAAT bids. I don't buy that.

I have withheld my comments until now, to gauge what everyone here thought, and to talk to other fans and season ticket holders, including a couple other fans who attended women's games.
I have not found anyone who likes these changes, or who thought this "enhances" Arch Madness (Jeff Jackson's own term).
I have lost faith in the MVC leadership. This would never have happened under Doug Elgin.
 
BUBraves2006 said:
Further confirmation from the Drake AD:

There was a committee put together and it consisted of a few ADs, women's representation and one head coach. Their priority was to protect the top 2 seeds with the goal of getting the best teams in the NCAA tournament to get more units for NCAA wins.

Their priority is maximizing every last dollar.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2069228915365691781
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Does anyone happen to know if AD's were involved in these changes and if so how does Chris Reynolds feel about it?
 
BUBraves2006 said:
I'm okay with a format that would have four games Saturday and two Sunday, men's and women's. That's actually pretty cool. But how we get there is just a mess.
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Nice read as usual BUB06. The best point to take away is that at the start of the upcoming season, we won't care or worry about this new format until March! And if we care sooner, then that's probably a good thing to up the anty for getting one of the Top 2 seeds! I suppose the biggest plus is rewarding the Top 2 teams during the regular season, but then again, I see the Top 2 teams making it to the title game like 3 of the next 4 years, and if that happens, it really makes the games prior to Sat. rather insignificant and the Friday full day of MVC hoops WAS one of the BEST of the year as a sports fan! :(

I was really excited about the thought of attending Arch Madness for the 2nd time ever in 2027, after enjoying my 1st trip this past March. No way will it live up to that same hype with the new format.
I won't be attending Arch Madness on Friday unless BU is playing (which I predict we will finish 4th), and even then, I will be thinking...well, even if we win this one...
 
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carter said:
Does anyone happen to know if AD's were involved in these changes and if so how does Chris Reynolds feel about it?
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I think more people should have been involved in the decision making like the AD's of each school. That is better than get a bunch of people together, make a decision then ram it down everybody's throat. I now have alot less respect for the leadership of this conference. A conference is formed for the needs of each individual school. They should have a hand in the direction the conference is going
 
Seems like there are two changes happening. One, combining men’s and women’s tournaments. I’m sure part of this is driven by trying to reduce operating costs of two tournaments over two weekends. Can’t argue with that. But also see this as forcing fans to have an interest in women’s basketball. Sorry, not my thing and I don’t want to pay extra (and you know we will) for games I have no interest in.

Two, trying to get the top two teams into the NCAA tournament. This is a risky gamble. No guarantee one of the bottom 8 won’t run the table and win it all. Then what? Most likely end up with one invitation for a one and done team.

I also see a lot of lost ticket/hotel/restaurant revenue.
 
I personally think this is as a politian said not to long ago,"this is stupid on stilts".If the MVC commissioner just wants the top 2 seeds to advance why even have a tournament.Just have the top 2 seeds at the end of the regular season play each other and forget the MVC tournament.Part of the enjoyment of the MVC tournament are the upsets.
 
I think it ruins the weekend for a lot of folks. Thursday games will still be a morgue. Friday will lean more towards morgue. If the top 2 has any of Valpo, Belmont, UIC, Evansville (ha) - the attendance will be in for a world of hurt. Those programs have consistently shown they won't bring fans. How many fans are willing to make an extra day commitment for a tournament that has a much lesser chance of a favorable outcome for 3-10?

It will depend year by year if the double bye is a good strategy from a NET/rpi/whatever standpoint. I think they're trying to fix a problem that didn't really exist. The 1/2 seeds have gone to the championship game at a significant rate over Arch history. This wouldn't have changed anything in 2024 for Indiana State. Bradley-Drake was a 1-2 matchup in 2025 and 2023. Belmont would have still been boat raced, just by a better team, last year.

Ultimately this is about money. Saving money on the women's tournament is a no brainer. I think "clearing out the stadium" between championship games is a huge mistake - let people stay if they want. I think the coaches will get pissed at the lack of practice/shoot around time now that there are 20 teams needing court time instead of just 10/11. I would have just put the women's Wednesday games on campus sites like Sunday/Monday timeframe, personally.

It will be interesting to see how they price all-session tickets. I think you'll see a lot of additional backlash if the prices go up at all. The expected value for everyone 3-10 just went way down, especially if you can't get there Thursday. Since Jeff Jackson is on the record now as to not listening to/caring about fan (customer) concerns, it probably will go up quite a bit.

Ultimately this feels like one of those things that may be smart for analytics and money, but will kill the experience of the tournament for most. Pretty much like everything college athletics lately. Thanks Jay Bilas!
 
I think the womens tour. should have moved to one of the member schools in order to save money. The ideal place would be one on campus that they don"t have to pay as much rent so it becomes a money maker.
The mens event has been a huge success and changing it is a huge mistake. The fans will be the ones that suffer as hotel room prices will skyrocket with this stupid format. Jeff Jackson should be fired over this huge mistake. The old adage of do not try to fix something that is not broken applies here.
 
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