Missouri State leaves the MVC

[patrick_o'brian]

Bring back the Wheat Shockers!!

 

[Tommy]

I agree with DC, unless it's the Big East calling, I wouldn't move. I would rather build a team capable of dominating the Valley, see Gonzaga, than move conferences for a somewhat lateral move. Maybe the Valley should get creative and go to a school like Saint Louis and see what it would take to lure them away. There would have to be no revenue sport benefits. Alternatively, I like the idea of NKU or maybe Tennessee Tech.

Couldn't agree more with the Gonzaga comparison. The WCC is not exactly a powerhouse conference and wasn't ranked as high as the Ivy League on Coach's post. Let's stick in the MVC, dominate, and become the next Gonzaga. Winning brings in fans, players, and revenue, so we should embrace an opportunity to become the dominant force in the Valley.

 

[Stryker]

Couldn't agree more with the Gonzaga comparison. The WCC is not exactly a powerhouse conference and wasn't ranked as high as the Ivy League on Coach's post. Let's stick in the MVC, dominate, and become the next Gonzaga. Winning brings in fans, players, and revenue, so we should embrace an opportunity to become the dominant force in the Valley.

Because the only thing that matters now with NIL and the transfer portal is money. Every decent D1 basketball program now has to buy their players every year. It won't be long, but imo, the haves and the have nots will separate even further in the future. There really wont be a way to become a Gonzaga in the future, because as soon as a mid major has great talent it will be gone in a year.

Also, fans aren't interested in watching low major teams come to Carver. They want solid mid majors coming in an playing the Braves. Filling the home schedule with teams like Chicago State or something isn't going to get interest, and if the MVC slides further down the conference rankings we won't be getting solid teams to come to Carver anymore.

 

[bradleyfan124]

Each time this discussion about Bradley being "proactive" comes up, we start looking at other conferences and talking about which would be the best for BU. But my opinion hasn't changed. I believe Bradley needs to stay in the MVC and try to help the conference make the best decision on adding new schools.
There is realistically only one non-football option that would be equal to or superior to the MVC-- the A-10. But I do not see that the A-10 would have any interest in Bradley. If they are even interested in expanding, which is unlikely since they already have 15 members- the largest mid-major conference in the country, they would want schools in big cities and major media markets. And they obviously favor schools from the states on the East Coast.
So IMO, Bradley isn't going to waste time and resources reaching out to other conferences. The MVC will survive and losing Missouri State isn't going to set them back a bit. Missouri State will be a lot easier to replace than Creighton, Wichita State, Tulsa, and even Loyola was. No offense to their sports programs (though they haven't made the NCAA Tournament this century), but nobody liked going to southwest Missouri anyway. I know I won't miss them.

Agree. Missouri Vally and Bradley have endured defections thru the years, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Memphis, Creighton, Wichita State, Tulsa, etc and survived. Everybody keeps talking about joining the A-10. The 3rd best team in the Missouri Vally just beat the champion of the A-10. They should want to join us

 

[yoda]

I am not a big college football fan but does this really bring in that much money ? I mean FIU, Jacksonville State, Liberty,La Tech, Middle Tennessee,New Mexico State, Sam Houston, UTEP, Western Kentucky, Kennesaw State, Delaware. I see a bunch of travel cost but no real TV revenue…..ya do get to visit Las Cruses and Huntsville, Texas though.

there are issues looming on the horizon that could not only change college football, but even "destroy" it.
Thus far, NCAA has dodged a couple bullets, massive lawsuits regarding head injuries, brain damage, and other liabilities,
but some think the day is coming that more and more lawsuits will be filed going after the bloated NCAA coffers, and
some are going to be successful some day, possibly crippling NCAA, forcing new rules & changes & hurting the sports' appeal.
https://nypost.com/2023/08/12/ncaa-had-brain-damage-information-that-would-destroy-football-docs/


In the meantime, NCAA basketball is on the rise- with surging attendance and ratings in both men's & women's
https://kjzz.org/content/1876133/final-four-attendance-could-reach-pre-pandemic-levels-first-time
https://www.ncaa.org/news/2024/3/28...-BREAKING ATTENDANCE,of 60,779 fans over 2023.
https://www.npr.org/2024/04/10/1243...TV viewers,watched basketball game since 2019.

There could come a day when basketball rivals FB for importance...

 

[Peoria_bradley_fan]

Agree. Missouri Vally and Bradley have endured defections thru the years, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Memphis, Creighton, Wichita State, Tulsa, etc and survived. Everybody keeps talking about joining the A-10. The 3rd best team in the Missouri Vally just beat the champion of the A-10. They should want to join us

Every team you mentioned is in a better position now for their program after leaving the Valley, yet some don't think we should try and follow those footsteps? That is puzzling to me. So we just wait until we're the last ones to shut off the lights?

We have to adapt and make moves to survive and thrive as a program. If the opportunity shows it's face to go to the A-10 it would be huge for our program.

The Valley doesn't have many great programs in it left. I would argue Bradley is the only one, and we don't even have a tournament win in 18 years! Sure some good teams over the last decade, but consistently good programs? No where near the liking of the A-10. I would far rather host the likings of Dayton/SLU/Richmond/VCU as opposed to the top 4 or 5 the Valley has to offer.
​​​
We have to stop being so fearful of change (NIL, potential conference realignment, etc) and start to embrace and operate at the forefront of the CBB landscape.

Side note, I love the hilariousness and irony that would be SLU coming to the Valley after the whole Schertz promotion. Would be amazing on multiple levels.

 

[BUfan14]

I know the Valley was 9th last year, but that doesn’t seem like it will be the case this year and outside of last year the Valley has been trending down. In the past we still had historical programs with good size fan bases. We don’t anymore. A couple of the big ones left may make football decisions. And with the money in football, I don’t see football just disappearing anytime soon. Bradley is the best program left now in a historical sense and before the last five years Bradley was at a low point (probably why we were never able to consider a move). Aren’t we always saying we have the best NIL and close to the best attendance and highest paid coach in the Valley? Maybe that’s not a good thing if our competition isn’t good enough.

I agree with DC the A10 might not want us, though with one more really good season and a nice attendance boost it might. But if the A10 wants us you have to make the move. There’s just nothing left here now. I mean are Valpo and UIC and the next team really going to replace Creighton, Wichita, Loyola, etc? We are on a downward trend. The Valley hasn’t been a two or multi bid league with any regularity in a decade.

I know preseason rankings don’t mean much, but just for comparison sake let’s look at the ones DC posted recently to compare:

69. Bradley
116. Murray State
117. Northern Iowa
165. Belmont
172. Drake
182. Illinois State
193. UIC
217. Valparaiso
224. Evansville
​​​​​​247. SIU
295. Indiana State
308. Missouri State​

A10 (I didn’t feel like typing this out, so I copied the table): [TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Dayton[/TD]
[TD]117.2
8[/TD]
[TD]95.6
35[/TD]
[TD].9119[/TD]
[TD]23-7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]VCU[/TD]
[TD]110.9
64[/TD]
[TD]94.8
20[/TD]
[TD].8588[/TD]
[TD]23-8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]Loyola Chicago[/TD]
[TD]106.8
124[/TD]
[TD]95.4
33[/TD]
[TD].7845[/TD]
[TD]22-9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]85[/TD]
[TD]Saint Joseph's[/TD]
[TD]109.8
79[/TD]
[TD]99.3
97[/TD]
[TD].7609[/TD]
[TD]20-11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]96[/TD]
[TD]Saint Louis[/TD]
[TD]112.5
49[/TD]
[TD]103.3
166[/TD]
[TD].7269[/TD]
[TD]18-13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]102[/TD]
[TD]George Mason[/TD]
[TD]106.7
128[/TD]
[TD]98.6
84[/TD]
[TD].7136[/TD]
[TD]20-11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]105[/TD]
[TD]Duquesne[/TD]
[TD]105.8
150[/TD]
[TD]98.2
76[/TD]
[TD].7016[/TD]
[TD]19-12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]121[/TD]
[TD]Rhode Island[/TD]
[TD]108.9
93[/TD]
[TD]102.8
156[/TD]
[TD].6597[/TD]
[TD]18-13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]129[/TD]
[TD]Massachusetts[/TD]
[TD]106.1
142[/TD]
[TD]101.9
138[/TD]
[TD].6122[/TD]
[TD]17-13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]132[/TD]
[TD]George Washington[/TD]
[TD]110.2
72[/TD]
[TD]106.2
223[/TD]
[TD].6058[/TD]
[TD]18-13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]148[/TD]
[TD]Richmond[/TD]
[TD]101.4
232[/TD]
[TD]99.1
93[/TD]
[TD].5646[/TD]
[TD]14-17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]153[/TD]
[TD]Fordham[/TD]
[TD]102.0
214[/TD]
[TD]100.3
111[/TD]
[TD].5474[/TD]
[TD]16-15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]157[/TD]
[TD]La Salle[/TD]
[TD]105.3
159[/TD]
[TD]104.3
184[/TD]
[TD].5276[/TD]
[TD]15-16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]191[/TD]
[TD]St. Bonaventure[/TD]
[TD]104.6
168[/TD]
[TD]106.4
230[/TD]
[TD].4499[/TD]
[TD]13-17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]231[/TD]
[TD]Davidson[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

 

[BUfan14]

Couldn't agree more with the Gonzaga comparison. The WCC is not exactly a powerhouse conference and wasn't ranked as high as the Ivy League on Coach's post. Let's stick in the MVC, dominate, and become the next Gonzaga. Winning brings in fans, players, and revenue, so we should embrace an opportunity to become the dominant force in the Valley.

There’s a reason there’s only been one Gonzaga. It’s lightning in a bottle. Butler made two championship games and they still aren’t Gonzaga. It’s also a different world now in college basketball as Stryker mentioned. I don’t think hoping to be the next Gonzaga is a realistic approach.

Also the west coast is an advantage as there is less competition. Look at the Mountain West, who used to be roughly the Valley’s equal. They were fourth in RPI last year, passing up the Pac12 as their only real West Coast competition. The Midwest and East Coast aren’t that easy.

 

[BUfan14]

Note that Conference USA had a conference RPI ranked 16th this past season. The MVC was 9th- https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2024/rpi-conference

I just mentioned this in the last post, but it’s amazing what the Mountain West has done after being roughly the Valley’s equal 20 years ago. Bigger football schools, and being in the west with only the Pac12 to deal with recruiting wise (and not even that anymore) helps for sure, but boy the arrows have gone in different directions for the Valley versus Mountain West. I think if Gonzaga was in the Midwest or East coast they never become Gonzaga as we know them, even if a good basketball team.

 

[Da Coach]

Every team you mentioned is in a better position now for their program after leaving the Valley, yet some don't think we should try and follow those footsteps? That is puzzling to me. So we just wait until we're the last ones to shut off the lights?

There is not going to be a mass exodus from the MVC like you're suggesting. In fact, just the opposite, there is a long list of schools with quality athletic programs dying to join the MVC. When the MVC expanded a couple years ago, dozens of schools applied, including schools as far away as Colorado, Texas, Tennessee, Ohio, Nebraska, and other states.

And, I don't deny that most of the teams who have left the MVC appear to have benefitted. That's why they left. But staying in the MVC is a far better option for Bradley than any realistic option you can suggest.
I'd still like to hear someone suggest which conference should Bradley join that would be beneficial to Bradley and is a realistic possibility?​

No football conference will consider Bradley. So it would have to be a non-football league, which leaves few options.
The Big East?- that is obviously never going to happen. Joanne Glasser tried to pitch Bradley to the Big East a decade ago, and she was laughed out of their offices in NYC.
The Horizon, Summit, or OVC (the OVC is not a non-football league but does have non-football members)- these options are obviously a huge step downward. When the MVC expands or accepts new members, there is a good reason why the list of schools applying looks like the membership list of the OVC, Summit, and Horizon Leagues.
The Atlantic-10- As I said above, this is the only conference that makes any sense at all for Bradley, but they are already the largest conference in America (15 schools) and not looking to expand further. If they did add, they would only want schools along the East Coast, or from a big media market city like Chicago, St. Louis, etc. It might be worth a shot, but I predict it will never happen. They would take UIC or Detroit before considering a school from Peoria.
That pretty much completes the comprehensive list of possible options.

Here are the only non-football conferences in D1- does anyone see a realistic option, other than the A-10?
American East
Atlantic Sun
Atlantic-10
Big East
Big West
Coastal Athletic Conference (CAA- formerly the Colonial Athletic Conference)
Horizon League
Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference (MAAC)
Summit League
West Coast Conference

For those who believe Bradley needs to look to move to another conference, please post which league is realistic.

 

[molar50]

Yes, it’s not just the basketball team that matters, although it is the prime and only revenue sport. You have to consider the travel expenses and time needed for all the other Bradley sports, baseball, soccer, etc to participate. It’s not easy, unless you are a university like Notre Dame that can fund everything because of football revenue.

 

[tomahawk chop]

There is not going to be a mass exodus from the MVC like you're suggesting. In fact, just the opposite, there is a long list of schools with quality athletic programs dying to join the MVC. When the MVC expanded a couple years ago, dozens of schools applied, including schools as far away as Colorado, Texas, Tennessee, Ohio, Nebraska, and other states.

And, I don't deny that most of the teams who have left the MVC appear to have benefitted. That's why they left. But staying in the MVC is a far better option for Bradley than any realistic option you can suggest.
I'd still like to hear someone suggest which conference should Bradley join that would be beneficial to Bradley and is a realistic possibility?​

No football conference will consider Bradley. So it would have to be a non-football league, which leaves few options.
The Big East?- that is obviously never going to happen. Joanne Glasser tried to pitch Bradley to the Big East a decade ago, and she was laughed out of their offices in NYC.
The Horizon, Summit, or OVC (the OVC is not a non-football league but does have non-football members)- these options are obviously a huge step downward. When the MVC expands or accepts new members, there is a good reason why the list of schools applying looks like the membership list of the OVC, Summit, and Horizon Leagues.
The Atlantic-10- As I said above, this is the only conference that makes any sense at all for Bradley, but they are already the largest conference in America (15 schools) and not looking to expand further. If they did add, they would only want schools along the East Coast, or from a big media market city like Chicago, St. Louis, etc. It might be worth a shot, but I predict it will never happen. They would take UIC or Detroit before considering a school from Peoria.
That pretty much completes the comprehensive list of possible options.

Here are the only non-football conferences in D1- does anyone see a realistic option, other than the A-10?
American East
Atlantic Sun
Atlantic-10
Big East
Big West
Coastal Athletic Conference (CAA- formerly the Colonial Athletic Conference)
Horizon League
Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference (MAAC)
Summit League
West Coast Conference

For those who believe Bradley needs to look to move to another conference, please post which league is realistic.

Bradley is in the conf. that is right for them. This is not the time to jump because there have been a lot of bad moves from other Universities that more then likely wish they had stayed in the conf. they left.

 

[Da Coach]

Dave Eminian has another article today listing 11 schools that he believes are "potential candidates" for the MVC- https://www.pjstar.com/story/sports...basketball-missouri-state-leaves/73646656007/

He lists:

Four schools from the Summit League - Oral Roberts University (Tulsa), University of Nebraska-Omaha (Omaha), University of St. Thomas (St. Paul- 2000 seat arena), and Missouri-Kansas City (1500 seat arena)
Three from the ASUN - Eastern Kentucky (Richmond, KY), Austin Peay (Clarksville, TN), Bellarmine (Louisville)
​Two from the Horizon League - Wright State (Dayton), Northern Kentucky U. (Highland Heights- near Cincinnati)​
One from the Ohio Valley Conference - Morehead State (Morehead, KY)
And one from the Western Athletic Conference - University of Texas-Arlington

In my opinion, there are several others that should and probably would be considered if the MVC plans to expand back to 12 teams.
And a few of these seem like much better choices than some on Eminian's list.
Lipscomb University - ASUN- Nashville
Oakland University - Horizon- Rochester, Michigan (outside of Detroit)
UW-MIlwaukee - Horizon- MIlwaukee
UW- Green Bay - Horizon- Green Bay, WI
Cleveland State - Horizon Cleveland, OH
IUPUI - Horizon- Indianapolis
Detroit-Mercy - Horizon- Detroit (U. of Detroit was once a member of the MVC)
Youngstown State - MAC- Youngstown, OH (They already play in the MVC Football Conference)
SEMO- OVC- Cape Girardeau, MO
Western Kentucky - CUSA (Bowling Green, KY) - it might be hard to get them to leave CUSA's FBS football money

Longshots - other members of the Horizon, Summit Leagues, and the OVC-

 

[Canton BU fan]

Maybe the best option is to lead an effort to form a new conference

 

[Mikovio]

The A10 is worth considering for sure but it’s true they may not be interested given that our market would be one of the smallest. Our program strength would be among their best however and we would be a good regional rival for SLU and Loyola. I see it as a half step up but it’s not a program-changer.

Gonzaga might be a moonshot but being at the top of a top 10ish midmajor league isn’t a terrible fate. Championships and NCAA bids attract good players and sell tickets.

 

[Stryker]

If there are so many "good sports programs" that have wanted to join the MVC then why did the MVC end up with the likes of UIC and Valpo?

Belmont and Murray St were great additions imo, but Valpo and UIC already felt like scraping the "bottom of the barrel". Are we saying some direction state schools are going to make the MVC stronger in the future?

I just am not buying it in this climate. We are in a completely new era of collegiate sports, one that has not existed in 100+ years, and frankly I predict it will have as big of impact on college sports as TV contract revenue did in the 1970s & 1980s.

 

[houstonbrave]

UIC was picked because it is in Chicago and only because presidents wanted a foot in Chicago. Not sure I agree that having a presence in Chicago that nobody pays any attention to is important but the president’s did.

 

[Da Coach]

Every school in the Horizon and Summit Leagues would accept a bid from the MVC in a second. And most OVC schools would, too.

why did the MVC end up with the likes of UIC and Valpo?

Right or wrong, the school presidents and AD's voted for them because they believed they strengthened the conference. It was not all about men's basketball.

At the time Valpo was selected (2017), they had been the dominant team in the Horizon League for years. They averaged over 25 wins per season for the 5 seasons prior to joining the MVC. And the league preferred another private school at that time. Being near Chicago probably helped a little, too.

UIC was added in 2022 because the MVC was desperate to replace Loyola with another Chicago based school. And though their basketball programs were mediocre, UIC has great facilities and has good sports programs other than basketball.

 

[Tommy]

I just mentioned this in the last post, but it’s amazing what the Mountain West has done after being roughly the Valley’s equal 20 years ago. Bigger football schools, and being in the west with only the Pac12 to deal with recruiting wise (and not even that anymore) helps for sure, but boy the arrows have gone in different directions for the Valley versus Mountain West. I think if Gonzaga was in the Midwest or East coast they never become Gonzaga as we know them, even if a good basketball team.

Thank you for making my argument for me. This is why we stay and dominate the Valley.

 

[egib52]

There’s a reason there’s only been one Gonzaga. It’s lightning in a bottle. Butler made two championship games and they still aren’t Gonzaga. It’s also a different world now in college basketball as Stryker mentioned. I don’t think hoping to be the next Gonzaga is a realistic approach.

Also the west coast is an advantage as there is less competition. Look at the Mountain West, who used to be roughly the Valley’s equal. They were fourth in RPI last year, passing up the Pac12 as their only real West Coast competition. The Midwest and East Coast aren’t that easy.

There has only been one because every other one jumped out .. Loyola, Wichita State, Butler, Creighton (only successful one).