mediocrity

[wizard1]

DC & Tornado: I really admire the positive outlook of both of you. You see the good and believe the bad can ultimately be overcome. However---There comes a time when all of us have to step back and take a hard and realistic look at where we have been over the past seven years. Except for a few good "ups", the program is really not improving very much.

We all recognize what our shortcomings are and we have believed these could be overcome with good teaching, motivation, game coaching, etc. Unfortunately, this has not consistantly happened yet and if the past is any indication, we may be doomed to more mediocrity in the years to come.

I would certainly like to join you in the belief that the BU future is bright and great things are to come. However, it's becoming more difficult to believe this is going to happen without some significant changes. I"m not advocating that we fire the coach or anything like that unless this continues for 2 or 3 more years, unabated.

What I am advocating is that the coaching staff becomes more flexible, isn't afraid to think out of the box, takes the time to listen to some other viewpoints, and recognizes that what we are doing now isn't working very well.

Given this, we could yet overcome our current mediocrity and join the Butlers, Gonzagas, and Xaviers of the basketball world. If not, then eventually, we will have to make some difficult decisions regarding our future.

 

[Da Coach]

Wizard- there is room for everyone to have an opinion.
To me this is not life and death importance stuff like it seems to be to a lot of people. That doesn't make you right and me wrong.
I am just as disappointed as anyone esle. I simply don't have the knee jerk reaction after every loss that we need to blow things up and start over. And if you think that's exaggerating, you didn't read all the threads started last night that said exactly that.

You and everyone else are entitled to your opinions. Just don't criticize people who don't agree with you, and don't direct this at me or anyone specifically as if we who don't share the "blow it up and start over" mentality are somehow the the problem. That's ridiculous.

 

[tornado]

BU fans since last night = Illinois fans right after Nov. 28 which also = BU fans back on Feb. 8, 2006.
We've seen it before and we'll see it again...it still isn't worth giving up my season tickets...
Plus, we still have a chance to sweep ISU...

 

[wizard1]

mediocrity

DC---I didn't direct this at you because you don't share my opinion. In fact, as I stated, I respect your opinion and your positive outlook very much. And my point was that I certainly am not in the "blow it up and start over" camp.
To the contrary, my main point is that we need to honestly and realistically evaluate the program over the past several years, not just 1 or 2 games or even over one season.

We need to ask some questions including "is the program getting any better",
if not, why not, and what needs to be done to raise the program to another level?

I also believe that it is rather easy to slide into an acceptance of mediocrity year after year and none of us want this. My opinion is that the next 2 or 3 years are going to determine the future direction of the BB program and if no change is apparent in that time---some tough decisions will have to be made.

I have held this opinion for some time, not just after the last couple of games.

 

[Dallas Brave]

I would think a large factor in determining JL??™s future beyond this season will be how the relationship between the new AD and JL develops. Certainly, if this year??™s team stays in the ditch that they have driven themselves into the last two games, and JL loses fan support, then I would think it natural for the AD to consider bringing in a new guy ??¦ especially if the working relationship between JL and the new AD doesn??™t develop.

On the other hand, the team might come back from basic training camp and start playing consistently good basketball, JL and the new AD might become best buds, and JL stays here for the next 20 years leading us to 16 NCAA appearances.

I was impressed with JG??™s process for hiring a new AD and MC looks like an excellent choice. If you are going to change out head coaches, do it when you first show up ??¦ don??™t wait 2-3 years if you suspect you don??™t have the right guy leading the program ??¦ so I think JL and his coaching staff will be closely watched and graded between now and the end of the season.

 

[Braves4Life]

My opinion is that the next 2 or 3 years are going to determine the future direction of the BB program and if no change is apparent in that time---some tough decisions will have to be made.

I have held this opinion for some time, not just after the last couple of games.

I share this opinion as well wizard. And I hope it never comes to that. I want us to win wildly under Les next year and beyond.

[ If you are going to change out head coaches, do it when you first show up ??¦ don??™t wait 2-3 years if you suspect you don??™t have the right guy leading the program ??¦ so I think JL and his coaching staff will be closely watched and graded between now and the end of the season.

I don't agree with this though Dallas. I think that because of the nucleus of returning players Les will be given at least until the end of next season to show consistency in winning. If that doesn't happen then I think his seat will be very hot.

 

[Dallas Brave]

I don't agree with this though Dallas. I think that because of the nucleus of returning players Les will be given at least until the end of next season to show consistency in winning. If that doesn't happen then I think his seat will be very hot.

You might be right as I am taking more of corporate leadership change perspective. I've been part of two CEO changes in the last 5 years, and in each case the CEO has made the majority of changes to his leadership group with 3 months of taking the helm.

 

[dogsrus]

I am just as disappointed as anyone esle. I simply don't have the knee jerk reaction after every loss that we need to blow things up and start over.

Thats just it DC...I don't think this is "knee jerk reactions" by MOST fans...at least it isn't for me. YES the individual losses hurt but the feelings many have are built from what WE see as many years of mediocrity.

Loses like the last two have people thinking middle valley..... one and done Valley tournament and alphabet post season if THAT much this year.

So once I/we get over the humiliating defeat LAST night provided us and we focus on the BIGGER picture many are still upset becuase its the same ole same ole.

No progess being shown and that crowd last night was the most embarassing and sterile enviroment I've seen at BU in 5-6-7 years.

Apathy is starting to creep in and its fast approaching the End of the Mo era in terms of how fans are starting to feel.

 

[brocks]

I am just as disappointed as anyone esle. I simply don't have the knee jerk reaction after every loss that we need to blow things up and start over.

Thats just it DC...I don't think this is "knee jerk reactions" by MOST fans...at least it isn't for me. YES the individual losses hurt but the feelings many have are built from what WE see as many years of mediocrity.

Loses like the last two have people thinking middle valley..... one and done Valley tournament and alphabet post season if THAT much this year.

So once I/we get over the humiliating defeat LAST night provided us and we focus on the BIGGER picture many are still upset becuase its the same ole same ole.

No progess being shown and that crowd last night was the most embarassing and sterile enviroment I've seen at BU in 5-6-7 years.

Apathy is starting to creep in and its fast approaching the End of the Mo era in terms of how fans are starting to feel.

You've hit on my biggest concern: the atmoshere around the program in year 8 of the JL era is starting to feel eerily familiar, just like year 8 of Mo. This is a pivotal time. We've played our way out of any chance at an at-large bid. If we fail to win the MVC tourney and miss the big dance again, things could spiral downward real fast.

I've been a die-hard fan of BU hoops for 23 years. It's mostly been painful, and our inability to sustain any level of national relevance is maddening. A lot of us middle-aged folks wonder how many more ten-year cycles of mediocrity we'll even live to see. It's getting old.

I thought JL would be the guy. IMO this is his last chance to show it. NCAA or out the door.

 

[versace4pres]

You've hit on my biggest concern: the atmoshere around the program in year 8 of the JL era is starting to feel eerily familiar, just like year 8 of Mo. This is a pivotal time. We've played our way out of any chance at an at-large bid. If we fail to win the MVC tourney and miss the big dance again, things could spiral downward real fast.

I've been a die-hard fan of BU hoops for 23 years. It's mostly been painful, and our inability to sustain any level of national relevance is maddening. A lot of us middle-aged folks wonder how many more ten-year cycles of mediocrity we'll even live to see. It's getting old.

I thought JL would be the guy. IMO this is his last chance to show it. NCAA or out the door.

I spoke to a couple of BU guys up here today and that same subject popped up. How long do we continue to wait? I know injuries and other incidents have factored into where we are today, but good teams find ways to fight through adversity and prosper. The illinois game was one in nine so far this year and we don't seem capable of that type of performance at this juncture of the season. We should expect more and quite honestly, should have more.

 

[BUfan14]

People seem to jump all over JL as never being able to sustain success or build the program. There have been games we should have won, as there are with any program and JL has made his mistakes just like any coach. When we lose against higher ranked teams it's a "lost opportunity" to people when we lose to bad teams everybody is questioning everything. Programs will always have losses and there will always be reasons, no loss is a good loss, but they will happen.

Which years under JL have been so disappointing? The first three years were rebuilding, nothing too much expected. Nobody expected a Sweet 16 from Bradley in 2005-2006. The 06-07 season was far better than most expected. Last year was above what many people thought losing JC and Ruff and still having a decent season. The ONLY super disappointing year to me under JL was 07-08 when JC and Ruff were seniors and that season was riddled with bad luck injuries and the whole Ruff situation and still turned out at least average. I will judge this season when it ends, but JL has really had only one really disappointing season so far in my eyes. Should we lose games like yesterday? No. Are there things that need improved? Most certainly by JL and the players, they are far from perfect and I stated my frustration with yesterday. BUT I believe this program is heading in the right direction and in my opinion with all the talent we have this team will continue to get better. I think this team will have a very good conference season.

 

[versace4pres]

131-109 and 61-65. Just saying.

 

[AZ BU Fan]

Just curious BUfan14..

Are you also a Cubs fan?

As the title of this post stated - Mediocrity - We are disappointed with the mediocrity that has pervaded the BU MBB program.

Set the bar low enough for JL year after year after year and you get this year's team. Nice, but not very satisfying....

I just wish I had you as one of my professors in college, or my boss before I retired. I might have finished with higher grades and got a lot more bonuses!
:lol:

I am not ready to give JL another 2-3 years grace. There really aren't any more excuses for him after the 2010-11 season. JL will have his best roster since the NCAAs with the most experience. If no success next season, more years for JL ain't gonna make any difference for the BU program.

 

[BUfan14]

131-109 and 61-65. Just saying.

And Im asking you which year was our accomplishments so far below what you expected other than one?

The first 3 years have a lot to do with that record looking low as well. Last four years: 86-56 (40-32). Shows improvement to me, not a program with no direction....and don't give me that some of those wins were against bad team in an ABC tourny, because we did beat some decent programs like Virginia and such in those tournys, a win is a win just like a loss is a loss. Plus JL could have an inflated record if he scheduled like some other schools, but he chooses to challenge his players, which is better for them in the long run. Other things go into a record than just strictly wins and losses. Like where the program was when the coach started and how tough the games he is scheduling are. I see a program that is improving in the last few years from where it was over the first few, now give it a few years to see if we can take the next step and improve some more. Some say they will do that, but then really give it no chance because they doubt it will happen. JL has stepped up the program a level since he started (comparing early JL years to later JL years), I have confidence he will raise it to the next level as well. It is a process that won't happen overnight.

 

[BUfan14]

I am not ready to give JL another 2-3 years grace. There really aren't any more excuses for him after the 2010-11 season. JL will have his best roster since the NCAAs with the most experience. If no success next season, more years for JL ain't gonna make any difference for the BU program.

I do plan on becoming a college professor some day after teaching in high school for a while, unfortunately it'll be too late for you:lol:

Seriously though, I agree there, although I would give JL next year and the year after, most people use next year as a cut off because the roster sort of turns over the next year, but I'd give him two more years. My complaint is that people say they will give him the chance, but don't really as they question the direction of the program. We took one step under JL, I think in the next year or two we will take another...like I said it's a process. If we don't then things should rightfully be evaluated, but give it a chance more than just in words.

Oh and yes I am a Cubs fan, I stated my frustration with them in the General Board. Actually though I am always quite harsh on them as I see them going nowhere for a long while, they always mess up everything it seems.:roll:

 

[Bravesfan]

People seem to jump all over JL as never being able to sustain success or build the program. There have been games we should have won, as there are with any program and JL has made his mistakes just like any coach. When we lose against higher ranked teams it's a "lost opportunity" to people when we lose to bad teams everybody is questioning everything. Programs will always have losses and there will always be reasons, no loss is a good loss, but they will happen.

Which years under JL have been so disappointing? The first three years were rebuilding, nothing too much expected. Nobody expected a Sweet 16 from Bradley in 2005-2006. The 06-07 season was far better than most expected. Last year was above what many people thought losing JC and Ruff and still having a decent season. The ONLY super disappointing year to me under JL was 07-08 when JC and Ruff were seniors and that season was riddled with bad luck injuries and the whole Ruff situation and still turned out at least average. I will judge this season when it ends, but JL has really had only one really disappointing season so far in my eyes. Should we lose games like yesterday? No. Are there things that need improved? Most certainly by JL and the players, they are far from perfect and I stated my frustration with yesterday. BUT I believe this program is heading in the right direction and in my opinion with all the talent we have this team will continue to get better. I think this team will have a very good conference season.

Great post BUfan14! Most national publications have predicted Bradley finishing sixth in the Valley this season, so are we really under achieveing this season? Probably not, yesterday notwithstanding. The Illinois win shows us we have talent, but obviously we are not consistent enough to put it all together on a regular basis yet.

At a local bookstore today I saw the Yahoo college basketball preview magazine and they named Bradley the team on the rise in the Valley, but still had them predicted sixth! This shows that they respect Les as a coach while noting his four consectutive postseason appearances, but also see that this team is not quite ready for a Valley title challange, at least for this year.

What does this mean for us this season? Any upper division finish for us would actually exceed expectations, at least from the national pundits. Maybe our fanbase expects a lot more quickly, but all teams in the conference try to improve so moving up the ladder is sometimes easier said than done.

Yesterday was a frustrating loss as I mentioned on some previous threads, and some frustration came out from me as well. That was a game we had no business losing, but it would not have changed the texture of this season all that much even if we had won it. I want to see how well we do in the conference season this year. If we finish well below .500 then I would be concerned. But I think 10 to 12 wins would be a nice year, and maybe even enough for an NIT if things fall into place. I know many people don't want to hear that, but that seems to be reality. Heck, if we manage to beat Iowa St. though, I think some will forget about what happened last night, and we may actually still have a great season! As many say, the season is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[real fan]

People seem to jump all over JL as never being able to sustain success or build the program. There have been games we should have won, as there are with any program and JL has made his mistakes just like any coach. When we lose against higher ranked teams it's a "lost opportunity" to people when we lose to bad teams everybody is questioning everything. Programs will always have losses and there will always be reasons, no loss is a good loss, but they will happen.

Which years under JL have been so disappointing? The first three years were rebuilding, nothing too much expected. Nobody expected a Sweet 16 from Bradley in 2005-2006. The 06-07 season was far better than most expected. Last year was above what many people thought losing JC and Ruff and still having a decent season. The ONLY super disappointing year to me under JL was 07-08 when JC and Ruff were seniors and that season was riddled with bad luck injuries and the whole Ruff situation and still turned out at least average. I will judge this season when it ends, but JL has really had only one really disappointing season so far in my eyes. Should we lose games like yesterday? No. Are there things that need improved? Most certainly by JL and the players, they are far from perfect and I stated my frustration with yesterday. BUT I believe this program is heading in the right direction and in my opinion with all the talent we have this team will continue to get better. I think this team will have a very good conference season.

The talent on this team should not be losing to Loyola , that is why there are so many of us frustrated about the situation.

 

[lefty]

And Im asking you which year was our accomplishments so far below what you expected other than one?

The first 3 years have a lot to do with that record looking low as well. Last four years: 86-56 (40-32). Shows improvement to me, not a program with no direction....and don't give me that some of those wins were against bad team in an ABC tourny, because we did beat some decent programs like Virginia and such in those tournys, a win is a win just like a loss is a loss. Plus JL could have an inflated record if he scheduled like some other schools, but he chooses to challenge his players, which is better for them in the long run. Other things go into a record than just strictly wins and losses. Like where the program was when the coach started and how tough the games he is scheduling are. I see a program that is improving in the last few years from where it was over the first few, now give it a few years to see if we can take the next step and improve some more. Some say they will do that, but then really give it no chance because they doubt it will happen. JL has stepped up the program a level since he started (comparing early JL years to later JL years), I have confidence he will raise it to the next level as well. It is a process that won't happen overnight.

I think we are past overnight..........You see a program improving the last 3 compared to the first three....do the middle two count for anything?

We improved and then we've been very stagnant since....that's it

 

[BUfan14]

I think we are past overnight..........You see a program improving the last 3 compared to the first three....do the middle two count for anything?

We improved and then we've been very stagnant since....that's it

I never said first 3 and last 3, I remember saying early and later years which includes the middle two. We spent 3 years being pretty bad, then 4 pretty decent years, now it is time for the next step this year and next year is what I'm saying.

Did we go from bad in year one to Sweet 16 in year 2? No it took a few years. The next step will too, and if it does not happen in the next 2 to 3 years then that is fine, but until then wait and see before judging is all I'm saying. Not many seem to want to wait and see like it is easy to just transition into Butler or even Creighton. If he was able to take one step, I think he will be able to take the next, but we will see. The Sweet 16 was step one, then he needed a few years to get recruits with that before step two, now is that time. We have a ton of talent over the next 2 years and hopefully beyond, but you have to remember that talent is still trying to come together as 2/5 of our starters were not on the court with everybody else last year, and TB didn't exactly get a ton of playing time. Yes this team needs more attitude, but I think most are dismissing them way too early before they get a chance to gell. I think they will gell, step up, and be fine.

Someone said earlier in this thread they wished I was their professor because I like mediocrity or something of that effect. Well on a 30 question test would you like me to assume you got a 56% if you only got 5 of out the first 9? No you might have done good on the rest, so you would probably want me to wait and see wouldn't you?

 

[SaintLouBrave22]

And Im asking you which year was our accomplishments so far below what you expected other than one?

So how many years are you allowed at your job to show improvement?

I certainly know that if I wasn't much more than just average or mediocre into my 8th year on the job, I'd be out on my *ss!


Look at all the other teams in the conference...


We're already one of the last to never win a tournament in St. Louis (Evansville, Wichita St), and we're getting real close to everyone having won a Valley championship since the last time we won one.


Its beyond time for all of us to celebrate in St. Louis and a conference regular season title would be nice as well...


The question is when? I just can't see it.