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Just the facts.....No opinions

Da Coach said:
These first 2 posts in this thread says it all. If you want to believe Jim Les has been bad, then cite only those statistics that prove your point. But it's hard to ignore that he has had substantial successes, unless you purposely distort the facts. And we still are ignoring the obvious fact that the success would be much greater if not for unforseen injuries to key players that would affect any coach and are not his fault.
Click to expand...

You may want to look up "substantial" in the dictionary then as to get a more accurate view of what that means as I myself would not consider 59% overall winning percentage or 54% in conference will 1 major postseason berth and countless trips to rinky-dink tournaments to pad win totals substantial success...

Then again like the first post said, factual info...


Here's something factual:

Without the rinky dink tournaments, Bradley has 7 less wins and 3 less losses and also doesn't afford the statement of saying "oh, guess what, we still won 20...even if it did take us 36 and 38 games to get over 20"


Here's a fact:

5th
6th
8th
5th*
4th
5th
4th
5th
?

The * was for the year we went to the Sweet 16


No higher than 4th, no lower than 8th
No more than 11 wins, no less than 6


At this point, it's fact that we're headed to break every mark I posted their for worst season in 9 years...

Should there be any reasoning to keep this going?


I read what T said, and that's basically assuming there is no buyout as he just took his 3 years left worth of salary...

Being in the field I am, I know there is a 95% chance he has a buyout or at least a standards clause which states that the school can buy him out at a rate of either X in the contract or X % for each year he has left...

In the latter, I can guarantee that his percentage wouldn't be more than what it would take to pay him for two more years, and possibly less than two full years...

So that's how I recognize that it would more than likely be asinine to use the excuse of his contract for why he's back next year...


The school has the money...that much we know for certain!
 
It's easy to produce statistics to support your argument.

MVC record under Les: under .500

Program-changing NCAA Sweet 16 appearances under Les: 1

Longest 20-win season streak under Les: 4

Number of top-3 finishes in Valley under Les: 0

Number of Valley tournament titles under Les: 0

Postseason appearances last 5 years under Les: 4

Number of BCS teams that have played in Carver thanks to Les's schedule: 3 (DePaul, Iowa St, Michigan St)

Times in the past 3 years ISU has finished above Bradley in conference: 3

Number of bites I've taken in my sandwich while composing this post: 8
 
AS-

I'm not sure you can consider the Sweet 16 program changing other than what it did at the current time---if that's what you're talkin about, ok...

Otherwise, post "the run", we alternated 4th and 5th place finishes in conference and while winning 20 games all 4 years, we only played in a second tier tournament and only once (1st yr after), and we lost at least 15 games in 3 of the 4 years...

Yet we were told that the run would get us all this talent...and we've been told the same about the new facilities...

I'm now holding my breath on the latter...
 
SaintLouBrave22 said:
AS-

I'm not sure you can consider the Sweet 16 program changing other than what it did at the current time---if that's what you're talkin about, ok...

Otherwise, post "the run", we alternated 4th and 5th place finishes in conference and while winning 20 games all 4 years, we only played in a second tier tournament and only once (1st yr after), and we lost at least 15 games in 3 of the 4 years...

Yet we were told that the run would get us all this talent...and we've been told the same about the new facilities...

I'm now holding my breath on the latter...
Click to expand...
That's what I meant by the S16 run, yes...

Although I think you're missing the overall point of that whole post: I presented several facts that are currently being used as major crutches for both ;) sides of the argument.
 
SaintLouBrave22 said:
AS-

I'm not sure you can consider the Sweet 16 program changing other than what it did at the current time---if that's what you're talkin about, ok...

Otherwise, post "the run", we alternated 4th and 5th place finishes in conference and while winning 20 games all 4 years, we only played in a second tier tournament and only once (1st yr after), and we lost at least 15 games in 3 of the 4 years...

Yet we were told that the run would get us all this talent...and we've been told the same about the new facilities...

I'm now holding my breath on the latter...
Click to expand...

We have also been told the Sweet 16 was because of an assistant coach, while also being told Coach Les is completely responsible for EVERYTHING. Now that's an interesting conflict. Even this season we were told Coach Platt is doing a wonderful job with the bigs after they had a productive game, but yet Coach Les is the one responsible for everything else? Funny how that works out everytime something good/bad happens. It's quite predictable who will get the credit/blame, and it's most definitely not the same person.
 
shaunguth said:
We have also been told the Sweet 16 was because of an assistant coach, while also being told Coach Les is completely responsible for EVERYTHING. Now that's an interesting conflict. Even this season we were told Coach Platt is doing a wonderful job with the bigs after they had a productive game, but yet Coach Les is the one responsible for everything else? Funny how that works out everytime something good/bad happens. It's quite predictable who will get the credit/blame, and it's most definitely not the same person.
Click to expand...

First, something can only be used as a reason once, maybe twice...after that, it is in fact just an excuse...


Second, I thought just as you win and lose as a team, you win and lose as a staff, correct?

All I think people are getting as is the noticeable breakdowns and differences between what we have now versus what we had then...

That leads people to say, well, our D was awesome in 06 when Buescher was here and stinks now...which leads people to the correlation that he was the reason...

Also, our bigs in spurts have been much better this year in the post than the previous couple years which leads to Merfeld didn't do his job and Platt is good...


See what I am getting at...Les will still receive praise or blame either way, but it is always easier to blame someone, especially when you are supposed to be the one to hand select your own assistants...


And as the saying goes, you're only as good as the people you have behind you...
 
Oh and just FYI, I only blame Les in particular for that cockamamie offensive system he brought in that has completely bulldozed our offense!

Other than that, at this point it has been stated that Platt works with the bigs and Willie works with the guards...

So how our young guards and bigs develop will depend on them...
 
tornado said:
it is believed (and I have it from good source) that Coach Les has three more years left on his contract..
(it was reported he got an extension through 2014)
..so it would cost Bradley (in difficult economic times) a minimum of $1.2 million....plus some of the ongoing revenue pledged for the new facilities and not yet in the bank might also dry up.....
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm ready for a change. I've divorced myself from the idea of Les as Bradley's coach...... and I'm at peace with this. However, I think it is highly unlikely that BU makes a change given these numbers. I think this implores the Administration to give him one last year to show what he can do...... and I'm good with that. But I've also seen enough to come to the conclusion that Les has not evolved as a coach or a recruiter. And that's a shame because I really like the guy.
 
TheAsianSensation said:
That's what I meant by the S16 run, yes...

Although I think you're missing the overall point of that whole post: I presented several facts that are currently being used as major crutches for both ;) sides of the argument.
Click to expand...

What side of the argument does the sandwich fall on? ;)

Seriously though...

1. No regular season championships in 8 years, despite promises to the contrary.
2. No MVC tournament championships in 8 years.
3. 5 consecutive appearances in the 2:30 Friday tournament game.
4. 6 consecutive conference losses in 2010-11 season.
5. 5 home losses in 2010-11 season (not including the loss to Quincy)

And these numbers won't get any better after Sunday night...
 
SaintLouBrave22 said:
First, something can only be used as a reason once, maybe twice...after that, it is in fact just an excuse...
Click to expand...

Using this thought process, as someone else brought up in another thread.....if Jordan was injured two different seasons during his time with the Bulls, it would have been a "reason" the first time and an "excuse" the second time?
 
SaintLouBrave22 said:
Second, I thought just as you win and lose as a team, you win and lose as a staff, correct?
Click to expand...

I do, which is why I find it odd that Les seems to only get the blame and not the credit. As I stated, our bigs had a good game and Platt got the credit. Our bigs have a bad game, Les gets the blame. :confused:
 
Braves4Life said:
Personally, I'm ready for a change. I've divorced myself from the idea of Les as Bradley's coach...... and I'm at peace with this. However, I think it is highly unlikely that BU makes a change given these numbers. I think this implores the Administration to give him one last year to show what he can do...... and I'm good with that. But I've also seen enough to come to the conclusion that Les has not evolved as a coach or a recruiter. And that's a shame because I really like the guy.
Click to expand...

Agree with all points you made here.
If they can't make the change because there isn't a suitable buyout clause in Les's contract, I guess we'll just have to live with it...however, going into next year with the same staff, the same systems, etc. in place makes it very difficult to sell the fan base on the notion that we are going to magically turn into a disciplined, fundamentally-sound, title-contending program next year, IMO.
Certainly no guarantee that a new coach could make this transformation happen either...but a different face at the helm of the program with a different message at least gives you the ability to think that the potential exists for things to change dramatically for the better...
 
Buesch N Chips said:
Jim Les promised a conference championship within 8 years?
Click to expand...

We've been through this same point of contention a thousand times...
He said "I envision Missouri Valley Conference championships"...that was what said...
Now...If you choose to look at that phrase as "he hoped for them", "he promised them", "he liked the idea of them", whatever...it's up to your own interpretation.
No real use in arguing the semantics of what he said...he envisioned Missouri Valley Championships for BU during his tenure...it hasn't happened yet...it is what it is. A lot of leaders set bold, challenging goals for their organizations...some are met, some are not...now it is the job of his bosses to determine whether he gets additional chances to meet this goal or whether it is time to give a different leader a chance to set goals for this program and see if he can achieve them...
 
Your #'s are alittle off. But I agree that the economy will keep coaches in their jobs longer.

tornado said:
I have produced facts...

here's one more...
every year between 2005-2006 and 2008-2009 there were MORE THAN 60 new head coaches hired in Division I...
Last year there far fewer and there'll be fewer yet this year because of the economy...
Click to expand...

Last year(2010) there were 54 job openings:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4980452

The year before (2009) there were 28 job openings:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11315259

2 years ago (2008) there were 43 job openings:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/10592405

3 years ago (2007) there were 60 job openings:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/10592405

4 years ago (2006) there were 61 job openings:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2332918
 
ER3 said:
We've been through this same point of contention a thousand times...
He said "I envision Missouri Valley Conference championships"...that was what said...
Now...If you choose to look at that phrase as "he hoped for them", "he promised them", "he liked the idea of them", whatever...it's up to your own interpretation.
No real use in arguing the semantics of what he said...he envisioned Missouri Valley Championships for BU during his tenure...it hasn't happened yet...it is what it is. A lot of leaders set bold, challenging goals for their organizations...some are met, some are not...now it is the job of his bosses to determine whether he gets additional chances to meet this goal or whether it is time to give a different leader a chance to set goals for this program and see if he can achieve them...
Click to expand...

That's all fine, I'm just trying to delineate between facts and interpretations.
 
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