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Iowa State hires Fred Hoiberg as coach

Back to Iowa State for a minute....

There are reports that not one, but TWO of the players who asked for a transfer at the end of this past season are considering coming back...both would be starters next season- Justin Hamilton who was set to go to LSU and former BU recruit Chris Colvin.

I haven't heard of that type of thing happening very often...
 
Jack Bauer said:
I wanted the best, most qualified candidate. That wasn't Wayne. I was never a Wayne guy. If you believed he was really a finalist that's not my problem; Bradley was never going to hire him.

Unfounded? Gregory's record speaks for itself. More wins, more conference wins, more time in the top 25, more NCAA's, more NIT's, more championships. Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good discussion here, but it's not even a close comparison.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/coaches/compare?add=jim-les&c1=brian-gregory

When Jim Les starts getting mentioned for and turning down BCS jobs let me know. I'm pretty sure Cross's phone hasn't been ringing asking for permission to interview.
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Stop it. I plainly put the facts out there. Talk about twisting words. Don't use your canned 'Don't let facts' line on me, you can't back it up.

JL WAS mentioned for BCS jobs after the Sweet Sixteen run. And what I said was unfounded was the assumption that Gregory would have had tons more success here than JL. One, Gregory wasn't an option at the end of the day, and two, we have no idea if Gregory would have been better here, they were very different situations.

So spare me the rhetoric about how I'm afraid of facts. I PUT THEM OUT THERE. Assuming identical success in a very different situation is not reasonable, nor is comparing a coach who didn't want the job to the one we have.
 
PTownHawkeye said:
Back to Iowa State for a minute....

There are reports that not one, but TWO of the players who asked for a transfer at the end of this past season are considering coming back...both would be starters next season- Justin Hamilton who was set to go to LSU and former BU recruit Chris Colvin.

I haven't heard of that type of thing happening very often...
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Maybe the Hoiberg hiring wasn't so bad after all...
 
amckillip said:
Stop it. I plainly put the facts out there. Talk about twisting words. Don't use your canned 'Don't let facts' line on me, you can't back it up.

JL WAS mentioned for BCS jobs after the Sweet Sixteen run. And what I said was unfounded was the assumption that Gregory would have had tons more success here than JL. One, Gregory wasn't an option at the end of the day, and two, we have no idea if Gregory would have been better here, they were very different situations.

So spare me the rhetoric about how I'm afraid of facts. I PUT THEM OUT THERE. Assuming identical success in a very different situation is not reasonable, nor is comparing a coach who didn't want the job to the one we have.
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Assumptions are assumptions. People are hired on the assumption that their resume qualifies them for the job they're applying for. Those who aren't qualified generally don't perform as well as those who are. The facts are the facts. One guy spent several years under Tom Izzo (as opposed to several years trading stocks in Sacramento), and one has been a lot better than the other. Plain and simple. It comes as a surprise to no one.

Mentioned by a beat writer and actually turning down interviews are two different things altogether. What BCS schools have called BU asking to talk to JL about a job? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Do you really think Bradley can't do any better? Despite over 100 years of doing markedly better, do you really think they can't do better? If they can't, I'm not sure what the point of having a program is, nor why anyone wastes their time following the program. I think they have done better and can do better. A lot better actually. Does thinking BU can and should be great make me a hater? Sorry for having expectations higher than 4th!

If we can't judge people on their records, how can we judge them and what criteria should we use to judge them?
 
Jack Bauer said:
Mentioned by a beat writer and actually turning down interviews are two different things altogether. What BCS schools have called BU asking to talk to JL about a job? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
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Seems you have a different take on this than most. I recall NC State having interest in BU....... Both the university and JL did not allow this to materialize as Les signed an extension with BU, as I recall.
 
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Jack Bauer said:
Assumptions are assumptions. People are hired on the assumption that their resume qualifies them for the job they're applying for. Those who aren't qualified generally don't perform as well as those who are. The facts are the facts. One guy spent several years under Tom Izzo (as opposed to several years trading stocks in Sacramento), and one has been a lot better than the other. Plain and simple. It comes as a surprise to no one.

Mentioned by a beat writer and actually turning down interviews are two different things altogether. What BCS schools have called BU asking to talk to JL about a job? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Do you really think Bradley can't do any better? Despite over 100 years of doing markedly better, do you really think they can't do better? If they can't, I'm not sure what the point of having a program is, nor why anyone wastes their time following the program. I think they have done better and can do better. A lot better actually. Does thinking BU can and should be great make me a hater? Sorry for having expectations higher than 4th!

If we can't judge people on their records, how can we judge them and what criteria should we use to judge them?
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NCSU?

BTW, besides trading stocks, JL was an MVC POY caliber player, played in the NBA, and was an assistant in the WNBA, but ignore those things. Don't let facts get in the way of a good arguement.

NCAA wins?
 
Resetting this thread to ISU/Hoiberg vs Les' performance at BU,

If a person doesn't have hands on college coaching or college recruiting connections/experience, but is a good manager/basketball person, hiring the right assistants or co-head coach can bridge the experience gap of the new head coach.

Hopefully Hoiberg will be able to round up as many good assistant coaches as he can and work with them to overcome his experience gap.

I also hope Hoiberg doesn't get into the public bravado some new inexperienced head coaches get into promising the moon. Hopefully he won't underestimate the difficulty of taking a new job with no experience, won't try to do everything by himself, and, is able to consistently recruit the players he needs to successfully execute his basketball style.
 
All this arguing over JL has gotten so monotonous. He's here at least through next year so let's live in the now and not what could of been because no one will ever know. In reality BU has invested into his growth and I believe it is ready to pay off. The guy is as loyal as any coach we could dream of and to me there is a ton of value in that. I believe most BU alums and Peorians find this to be a very positive character value and are willing to sacrifice a bit in the short run (please do not jump on short!) in order to achieve some nice long term returns. Short and long are all relative. JL is a very positive role model and an outstanding citizen who has helped produce some outstanding student athletes.
 
amckillip said:
BTW, besides trading stocks, JL was an MVC POY caliber player, played in the NBA, and was an assistant in the WNBA, but ignore those things. Don't let facts get in the way of a good arguement.
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He was a volunteer assistant in the WNBA...I think it's best if we did ignore that. It would be better to have a completely empty resume than to include that tidbit.
 
amckillip said:
NCSU?

BTW, besides trading stocks, JL was an MVC POY caliber player, played in the NBA, and was an assistant in the WNBA, but ignore those things. Don't let facts get in the way of a good arguement.

NCAA wins?
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I don't want to use the 'Forrest Gump' bit...but are you ----- or something? What does POY have to do with anything coaching-wise? A few weeks coaching girls? Do you feel good chatting with your friends saying that's your coach's credentials? Yes...I will ignore playing experience and girls basketball watching experience. Your points get weaker by the post. I like JL because he was a great player, but enough with his 'credentials'....you are doing your diploma a disservice by defending them...
 
Jack Bauer said:
I don't want to use the 'Forrest Gump' bit...but are you ----- or something? What does POY have to do with anything coaching-wise? A few weeks coaching girls? Do you feel good chatting with your friends saying that's your coach's credentials? Yes...I will ignore playing experience and girls basketball watching experience. Your points get weaker by the post. I like JL because he was a great player, but enough with his 'credentials'....you are doing your diploma a disservice by defending them...
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Haha, and personal attacks make your argument so much stronger... grow up man. What's gettin old are your monotonous, unthinking posts. About 40 of your 43 posting are bashing JL. Some of us are capable of discussing other things related to BU hoops, obviously you're not one of them.

FWIW, I'll take what I'm doing with my diploma one year out of college over about 99% of college grads, and about 99.9% of BU grads, pretty much any way you slice it, grad school opportunities, work-life balance, salary, etc. Thanks though!
 
amckillip said:
Haha, and personal attacks make your argument so much stronger... grow up man. What's gettin old are your monotonous, unthinking posts. About 40 of your 43 posting are bashing JL. Some of us are capable of discussing other things related to BU hoops, obviously you're not one of them.

FWIW, I'll take what I'm doing with my diploma one year out of college over about 99% of college grads, and about 99.9% of BU grads, pretty much any way you slice it, grad school opportunities, work-life balance, salary, etc. Thanks though!
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Didn't go personal, just thought you could do better. My BU fandom goes past the Sam Maniscalco HS years and JL's coaching tenure. I won't apologize for being used to real sustained success and not flashes in the pan followed by mediocrity. It doesn't matter who the leader of the program is, if they don't meet the standards of Bradley's 100+ years of success, then they'll be the focal point of discussion. What is wrong with me holding us to our standard of success over the past several decades? Why do you sell us short?
 
Jack Bauer said:
Didn't go personal, just thought you could do better. My BU fandom goes past the Sam Maniscalco HS years and JL's coaching tenure. I won't apologize for being used to real sustained success and not flashes in the pan followed by mediocrity. It doesn't matter who the leader of the program is, if they don't meet the standards of Bradley's 100+ years of success, then they'll be the focal point of discussion. What is wrong with me holding us to our standard of success over the past several decades? Why do you sell us short?
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Yeah, before Maniscalco years HS were great, so many coaches in recent BU history have done tons better than JL, Versace had a some good seasons for sure, but before JL it had 51 years since we last reached the Sweet Sixteen. But yeah, sustained success, you saw it all... We were a national powerhouse just before JL got here, it was crazy we needed to find a new coach with all the success we were having.
 
amckillip said:
Yeah, before Maniscalco years HS were great, so many coaches in recent BU history have done tons better than JL, Versace had a some good seasons for sure, but before JL it had 51 years since we last reached the Sweet Sixteen. But yeah, sustained success, you saw it all... We were a national powerhouse just before JL got here, it was crazy we needed to find a new coach with all the success we were having.
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Since Versace, we won the MVC regular season twice, MVC tourney once, and finished in the top 3 several times. When have we done any of those in the last 8 years? Again...facts...live on the the two fluke wins all you want, the proof is in the pudding. I want a fellow alum to succeed as much as anyone, but I would hope as a fellow alum you would want people to be held to the great standards of success BU has been accustomed to far beyond your recent time there...
 
Jack Bauer said:
Since Versace, we won the MVC regular season twice, MVC tourney once, and finished in the top 3 several times. When have we done any of those in the last 8 years? Again...facts...live on the the two fluke wins all you want, the proof is in the pudding. I want a fellow alum to succeed as much as anyone, but I would hope as a fellow alum you would want people to be held to the great standards of success BU has been accustomed to far beyond your recent time there...
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And went to the NCAA's once and lost. NOT EVERYONE ONLY COUNTS MVC CHAMPIONSHIPS. The wins are a fact, how are they not? That JL took us to the sweet sixteen when no one else had for 51 years is a fact, that BU was ranked in the top 25 for the first time in 15+ years is a fact. You can say it was a fluke, but I say that BU went almost undefeated with Versace was a fluke because we didn't play anyone, and thats easily justified by our performance in the NCAA's most everyone said.

It's clear you don't like JL, but don't say that I am not judging on facts because you don't like that I do. Your concept of 'facts' and 'pudding' is hilariously subjective.
 
amckillip said:
And went to the NCAA's once and lost. NOT EVERYONE ONLY COUNTS MVC CHAMPIONSHIPS. The wins are a fact, how are they not? That JL took us to the sweet sixteen when no one else had for 51 years is a fact, that BU was ranked in the top 25 for the first time in 15+ years is a fact. You can say it was a fluke, but I say that BU went almost undefeated with Versace was a fluke because we didn't play anyone, and thats easily justified by our performance in the NCAA's most everyone said.

It's clear you don't like JL, but don't say that I am not judging on facts because you don't like that I do. Your concept of 'facts' and 'pudding' is hilariously subjective.
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Ok. You are counting 2 wins on a neutral court over several seasons of sustained winning. Fine. In my world sustained winning against your peers holds more weight than two fluke wins on a neutral court. Find me the last BU coach who had a losing conference record after 8 seasons...keep in mind Jim Molinari and Dick Versace were bottom feeders their first year, and still ended up WELL OVER .500 against the MVC. As great as those two fluke wins were, the following 4 seasons showed that it was more of a fluke than a sing of 'turning the corner' or 'going to the next level'. The next level isn't 4th, 5th, 5th, 5th. The next level isn't NIT, CBI, CIT, couch. Is that your idea of success? If it is, I am glad you're happy. I am not.

I love JL the player. And I can buy him as the face of the program if he has competent help around him. He did for two out of 8 seasons. Those two years we were really good, 44-24 actually. The other 6 we sucked. I'm sorry that I am tired of sucking. It sounds like we want to win again. I hope we do.
 
Jack Bauer said:
Jim Molinari and Dick Versace were bottom feeders their first year, and still ended up WELL OVER .500 against the MVC. As great as those two fluke wins were, the following 4 seasons showed that it was more of a fluke than a sing of 'turning the corner' or 'going to the next level'. The next level isn't 4th, 5th, 5th, 5th. The next level isn't NIT, CBI, CIT, couch. Is that your idea of success?
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See, thats the argument everyone uses, but look at the strength of the MVC comparatively. While JL has been here the MVC has arguably been the top non-BCS conference, while during Mo and Versace's years you couldn't even come close to saying that. So yeah, Mo won once, but it was in a much different MVC, Stan certainly didn't rule the conference, and in Versaces day the conference would have struggled to call itself a high mid-major at times.

So yes, JL has not been Altman or some of the other successful MVC coaches, but he hasn't been been the dog many make him out to be. He was probably just as succesful if not moreso than Keno and he jumped to a BCS school, you don't have to like JL, no one does, but please stop acting like those of us who do don't have any reason to, even before you consider his disciplinary approach (which is top notch), or his graduation rate (also superb), because I value more in my diploma than winning above all else ;)
 
amckillip said:
See, thats the argument everyone uses, but look at the strength of the MVC comparatively. While JL has been here the MVC has arguably been the top non-BCS conference, while during Mo and Versace's years you couldn't even come close to saying that. So yeah, Mo won once, but it was in a much different MVC, Stan certainly didn't rule the conference, and in Versaces day the conference would have struggled to call itself a high mid-major at times.

So yes, JL has not been Altman or some of the other successful MVC coaches, but he hasn't been been the dog many make him out to be. He was probably just as succesful if not moreso than Keno and he jumped to a BCS school, you don't have to like JL, no one does, but please stop acting like those of us who do don't have any reason to, even before you consider his disciplinary approach (which is top notch), or his graduation rate (also superb), because I value more in my diploma than winning above all else ;)
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Ok...isn't it all relative? If the league is better, why aren't we? You more or less just said the league has passed us by and we should be happy being 4th with an alum as coach like we are now. Please explain to my how a 'better' MVC is an excuse for us not being where we've always been.
 
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