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If Elgin Goes Raiding - School Profiles

R

Rusty 54

New member
If Elgin wants to expand the Valley, here are some profiles of some of the schools that I have seen mentioned.

Valparaiso
Valparaiso, IN, population 31,730
Private
Enrollment – 4,061
Conference - Horizon
Football – Pioneer league
Arena size – 5,000
Success – Horizon regular season champion last season, last NCAA Tournament was in 2004.


UIC
Chicago, IL, population 2,707,120
Public
Enrollment – 28,091
Conference - Horizon
No Football
Arena size – 8,000
Success – Second in the Horizon in 2003-2004, last NCAA Tournament in 2004


Loyola
Chicago, IL, population 2,707,120
Private
Enrollment - 16,040
Conference - Horizon
No Football
Arena size – 4,486
Success – bottom dwellers of the Horizon since 2007-2008, last NCAA Tournament in 1985


Wright State
Dayton, OH, population 142,148
Public
Enrollment – 19,721
Conference - Horizon
No Football
Arena size – 10,400
Success – Second in Horizon in 2009-2010 and 2007-2008, generally seem to be middle to top of the league. Last NCAA Tournament in 2007.


Oral Roberts
Tulsa, OK, population 396,466
Private
Enrollment – 3,790
Conference - Southland (Was in the Summit)
No Football
Arena size – 10,575
Success - Just moved to Southland, won Summit League in 2011-2012 and 2007-2008, top three finish every year since Summit was formed in 2007. NCAA Tournaments in 2006, 2007, 2008.


* Info comes from wikipedia, google and athletic department sites *
 
More likely.

Murray State
Murray, KY, population 17,741
Public
Enrollment ??“ 10,800
Conference - Ohio Valley
Football ??“ Ohio Valley
Arena size ??“ 8602
Success ??“ 6 NCAA appearances in last 11 years. 2 NCAA wins.
 
saluki762 said:
More likely.

Murray State
Murray, KY, population 17,741
Public
Enrollment ??“ 10,800
Conference - Ohio Valley
Football ??“ Ohio Valley
Arena size ??“ 8602
Success ??“ 6 NCAA appearances in last 11 years. 2 NCAA wins.
Click to expand...

I love the media market that they bring. A town the size of Morton.
 
saluki762 said:
More likely.

Murray State
Click to expand...

Thanks! Murray State a school I was going to add this morning if no one else did.

I like Murray State as a basketball program more than any of the Horizon schools. Loyola or UIC do not deliver Chicago. Looked at a message board of Murray State and at least some of their fans want in the Valley, which is worth something when you combine it with the success they have had.
 
An additional stat for these profiles-- 2012 avg. home attendance:

Valpo - 3383
UIC - 2934
Loyola - 2277
Wright St - 3903
Oral Roberts - 4494
Murray St - 6144


For reference, all MVC schools:
Bradley - 7640
Creighton - 16665
Drake - 3965
Evansville - 5135
Illinois St - 4783
Indiana St - 5433
Missouri St - 7050
Northern Iowa - 4406
Southern Illinois - 3299
Wichita St - 10391
 
Also just for reference here. Endowment numbers:

Valpo - $140.8M
UIC - $244M
Loyola - $388.7M
Wright St - $82.3M
Oral Roberts - $37.8M
Murray St - $32.8M

MVC:
Bradley - $198.5M
Creighton - $375.2M
Drake - $158M
Evansville - $78.7M
Illinois St - $88.4M
Indiana St - $75M
Missouri St - $60M
Northern Iowa - $65.8M
Southern Illinois - $100M
Wichita st - $170.1M
 
5 other schools that could be possibilities depending on how the chips fall.

Butler University
Indianapolis, IN - Population 829,817
Private
Enrollment - 4667
Endowment - $155M
Conference - Atlantic 10
Football - Non-scholarship/Pioneer League
Arena Size - 10,000
Avg Attendance - 6599
Success - 6 NCAA tournament appearances in the last 10 years, 2 sweet sixteens, 2 appearances in final.

Dayton University
Dayton, OH - Population 141,527
Private
Enrollment - 10,068
Endowment - $598.4M
Conference - Atlantic 10
Football - Pioneer League
Arena size - 13,435
Avg Attendance - 12,154
Success - 3 NCAA tournament appearances in the last 10 years. 1 win in 2009.

DePaul University
Chicago, IL - Population 2.7M
Private
Enrollment - 25,398
Endowment - $414M
Conference - Big East
Football - None
Arena size - 17,500
Avg Attendance - 7740
Success - 1 NCAA tournament appearance in the last 10 years, 1 win.

University of Detroit Mercy
Detroit, MI - Population 713,777
Private
Enrollment - 9399
Endowment - $26M
Conference - Horizon
Football - None
Arena size - 8295
Avg Attendance - 2272
Success - 1 NCAA tournament appearance in the last 10 years.

Saint Louis University
St. Louis, MO - Population 318,069
Private
Enrollment - 15085
Endowment - $880.3M
Conference - Atlantic 10
Football - None
Arena Size - 10,600
Avg Attendance - 7757
Success - 1 NCAA tournament appearance in last ten years. 2012, 1 win.
 
The schools we have the most in common with are those who might sit in a city of at least 100,000, do not have football and who draw at least reasonably well and have decent basketball tradition... and it would be nice if they also have decent men's soccer...
It's hard to deny the fact that without having football - we do have limited choices........

That, to me, means (not necessarily in order of preference) Drake, DePaul, UW-Milwaukee, Detroit, Dayton. SLU, ORU, UIC, Loyola, Butler if they're still not scooped up....
plus maybe Valpo...and if we want to reach out a little further...LaSalle, SBU, ODU, Green Bay, Ball State, Belmont, Davison, Oakland, Nebraska-Omaha
 
Da Coach said:
Or Carbondale....and not whole lot different than Cedar Falls, or Terre Haute,
Click to expand...

According to census, Terre Haute has a metropolitan area of about 170,000 people.

Also, why do we keep talking about DePaul like they might just decide to scrap their affiliation with the new conference and join the Valley? Same with some of the other schools that made recent jumps - see Bulldogs, Butler - what makes us think they would come to the Valley?

Why stop there? Why not see if other former Valley members will return? Louisville or Kansas, anyone?

I know we all love our Braves and our league, but the Valley arrogance during this process is becoming nauseating. Let's hope we can get a few solid schools in the league and go from there.
 
electricmayhem said:
According to census, Terre Haute has a metropolitan area of about 170,000 people.

Also, why do we keep talking about DePaul like they might just decide to scrap their affiliation with the new conference and join the Valley? Same with some of the other schools that made recent jumps - see Bulldogs, Butler - what makes us think they would come to the Valley?

Why stop there? Why not see if other former Valley members will return? Louisville or Kansas, anyone?

I know we all love our Braves and our league, but the Valley arrogance during this process is becoming nauseating. Let's hope we can get a few solid schools in the league and go from there.
Click to expand...

All depends on what the rest of those 6 schools want when it comes to DePaul. They may want a stronger program (doubt it), or DePaul could be looking to get into a smaller conference. What if the GT, Marquette types want to get into a conference with St Mary's, Gonzaga, and Creighton to go national, and DePaul isn't in their plans? Should we not make a run at DePaul because we fear we'd look arrogant?

Assuming those 7 stay together, and decide to go Catholic only, and 10 max. That means they could rob the A10 of Dayton, Xavier and SLU. In that case, Butler's going to be way out on the edge of a really terrible conference. That could make Butler change their mind about the A10. And if Butler is on the table, you take them right quick.

It's not arrogant to believe the MVC is indeed a powerful conference-- it is. It also serves no purpose to assume that no one is interested and meekly take on a program like Loyola or Valpo. That may be necessary, but right now there are lots of ways this "Catholic 7" thing could go, and a lot of the possibilities mean a nice midwestern program or 2 might turn orphan.
 
electricmayhem said:
According to census, Terre Haute has a metropolitan area of about 170,000 people.

Also, why do we keep talking about DePaul like they might just decide to scrap their affiliation with the new conference and join the Valley? Same with some of the other schools that made recent jumps - see Bulldogs, Butler - what makes us think they would come to the Valley?

Why stop there? Why not see if other former Valley members will return? Louisville or Kansas, anyone?

I know we all love our Braves and our league, but the Valley arrogance during this process is becoming nauseating. Let's hope we can get a few solid schools in the league and go from there.
Click to expand...


The possibility of DePaul having interest in joining the MVC was rumored on a number of internet websites. I can't vouch for any validity in this rumor, and it makes little sense to me-
https://twitter.com/ChicagoHoops/status/279997421952573440


And there are now reports that the Presidents of the MVC schools will meet tomorrow to discuss the Valley's options-
https://twitter.com/JoeQuinnShow/status/280451477556850688
 
Any school with FBS football is a no-go, because they have to protect against independence there. Without getting bogged down in the numbers, it's financial suicide in the new playoff system not to be affiliated with something.

I've probably forgotten more lists of candidates than most have ever created :lol: but my short-term gut feel is that a private non-footy will be added to replace Creighton to keep everyone happy with the 5-5 football/nonfootball split we have now.

If Creighton goes, they might want to help stabilize the western front. I'm estimating Elgin's first call goes to Oral Bob. But if Wichita somehow finds another home too, then we ignore Oral Bob and head for Loyola/Milwaukee/Wright St/Valpo/Murray St in some combination, with an outside chance at UALR.

Elgin probably can't stop Creighton from going but would a Denver/Oral Bob proposal stop them? I could see Elgin trying it.

The one thing I feel more comfortable about is him ignoring the football schools. Needless to say, if CU/EU/WSU leave, and Elgin's response is to propose NDSU, SDSU, and Youngstown as replacements, we GTFO ASAP.
 
If it goes this way, I like Murray State and Oral Roberts because of their success. Both expand the Valley footprint too, though that doesn't matter too much for us as compared to the Big 10/ACC.

Loyola and UIC are programs that should always be beneath us. It drives me crazy that we have losses to them in recent years. If they had great fan support and a history of success, maybe. But they don't.

I would take Butler or Dayton in a heartbeat. But I would be completely shocked if that happened.
 
Loyala is more like BU than even I care to admit. They have a rich basketball history yet have amounted to very little over the past 25 years.
 
Braves4Life said:
Loyala is more like BU than even I care to admit. They have a rich basketball history yet have amounted to very little over the past 25 years.
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I don't agree... Revenues and budgets extremely different, as are things like fan support. I have strong suspicion that if you were to track RPI or Sagarin ratings over time you'd also find that Bradley is much stronger. NCAA success? Bradley may be only marginally better than Loyola over 25 years, but by any other measure I think there's a big difference.
 
Rusty 54 said:
Loyola and UIC are programs that should always be beneath us. It drives me crazy that we have losses to them in recent years. If they had great fan support and a history of success, maybe. But they don't.
Click to expand...

Very true. As a Chicagoan thought, it would mean 2 games I would be sure to attend every season!
 
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