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Give me your best excuse

B

BUFAN

New member
Ok, ok....so I know there are a couple threads already saying we should be like Butler...but I think this needs to be exposed........
butler is a fine, fine team, and in no way is anything here meant to dis on Butler or bring them down....they have done a good job in recent years.

Here is the quote that prompted my effort to put this argument to rest...


Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintLouBrave22
... Butler's players are just as young as we are.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reynolds
The comparable private-school BU in Indianapolis starts three freshmen and a sophomore and is breezing..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Wessler
three freshmen and two sophomores playing the majority of Butler's minutes

(which of course is not true....FULL TIME starter Will Veasley and one of their most used players is a junior)

Now the facts...........

1) Bradley's TWO most senior players are BOTH injured and not playing (Sam Singh and Andrew Warren), and the guy with the most career minutes and the highest returning scoring average (Warren) hasn't played all year and isn't likely to....while the most experienced returning guard available (Sam Maniscalco) has also been hobbled by injury this season.
Butler has absolutely no such losses or injuries whatsoever to deal with.

2) Both Butler and Bradley have FIVE players averaging more than 20 minutes per game or more....so both team rely heavily on just 5-6 players.
BUT BU has had to deal with significant injuries to one of their main five (Maniscalco) and two of their other significant players (Egolf & Singh) .....none of Butler's have, PLUS...Bradley has also lost for the season two guys who would have been starters (Egolf, Warren)!

3) Butler's lineup has one guy starting who has been a Butler regular and who has been averaging 15 mpg for 3 years now...Bradley is going exclusively with 1st & 2nd year guys, and guys like Sam Singh who have virtually never played before.

4) their starting center (Matt Howard) played full time last season and started nearly every game last year and this year...
We don't have even ONE single guy who had ever previously started even ONE single game at center or even at any position in college basketball now playing post positions.....so no doubt Butler has TONS more experience in the paint.

5) Butler's first two guys off the bench (Avery Jukes and Zach Hahn) are a junior and a sophomore, who both have significant experience from the past year or two.
Bradley comes off the bench with Taylor Brown, Darian Norris, and even Anthony Thompson, not one of which has ever seen a D-I floor before this season.

6) as noted elsewhere, recruiting is always easier if you sit right in the middle of a city of 1 million, and one of the Top 25 TV markets, and if the other midmajors instate provide no real competition to recruiting.
Bradley simply does not have any of those blessing...so we just have to do the best we can with what we have.
AND, I believe, recruiting has been as strong as every with numerous 2-3 Star recruits, more players of that caliber in the past 2-3 years than in the previous 2-3 decades.

7) lastly, BU does have help coming in the form of Wilkins, Prosser, Knezevic, Harris....good recruiting and fine players already committed and/or signed.
Butler has only one player committed and signed for the future...so time will tell........
I have gathered a bunch of excuses and I'm seriously wondering if anyone can top them. So; give me your best shot tell me why JL said this is the best group he has ever coached and let everyone know he was going to compete for the valley. BB was returning to carver and fan excitment was going to be at an all time high. The only oversites i recognize is defence and then of course scoring, making a jumper here and there. Just give me a list of excuses and you too can make the all loser team. One excuse gets you in and two or more you'll start...
 
So you are comparing situation's here....they are not even close.

I don't like IU and have never liked them but I don't feel the need to stomp on them. I don't think there is anything that he said that isn't true.

They will be good soon enough for me.
 
Wow someone is unhappy.

I say JL has done a good to slightly above good job coaching this team.

I think the following dictates the future, but what do I know

Frosh bigs simply don't succeed in this league to the degree that pulls us out of the 4-5 game IMO, so expect to be at 2:30 again next year unless we get a juco who is unlike any we have had recently in the post

JL did say AT was the second best offensive post player he has coached besides Patrick. I wonder if he meant this, or it just sounded good because we were bad inside.

More than anything the staff needs better balance position wise amongst our classes. I think they would likely agree with this.

I also think Coach Les upon his hiring, would not have viewed the results over the past 7 years successful. Its a question for him though.

He will likely not be at .500 in the league after 8 years, and thats not acceptable.

But I do think he has improved a lot.
 
tornado said:
of course, there is an ovrwhelming BCS bias, so I concede that.
The NCAA did everything possible to go easy on them for all their repeated violations in order to help them - not punish them.

"Josephine Potuto, the chair of the committee on infractions, claiming that
one reason the NCAA had sympathy for Indiana in its major violations case
was the Hoosiers might not field a winning basketball team this year."
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=dw-indiana120908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

"The NCAA just didn??™t have to base its satisfaction with IU on an illogical (and inaccurate) standard.

What criteria did the NCAA use to judge the ???condition of the program??? (it??™s
actually quite good)? Why should anyone care that a cheating school might
lose some games (isn??™t that the point)? And how did Potuto figure Indiana
was, presumably, going to struggle since the Hoosiers record at the time was just 2-2?

The statement spoke to the NCAA??™s history of going easy on powerhouse programs while burying small schools.

.. this case shows, even when caught breaking the rules, it??™s good to be Indiana.

For decades the NCAA has been accused of selectively enforcing its rules based on the political and earning power of the offending institutions.
Under Brand, the NCAA has taken it to a new level."




awwww...since when does the Infractions committe bother to shed tears over how crummy a program will be due to their own malfeasance and negligence?
Click to expand...


Help me here T.....what does this have to do with Crean's comments?
 
No doubt that injuries have hurt our chances of winning a lot more games this season; my biggest dissappointment this season has been with the lack of developement of A.T. as I thought he was suppose to be a major contributor for our team and because he has not played much this season I just don"t see him as ever being as good as advertised , he virtually has sit and watched for 2 years now which does not really prepare him much for next season, I have to view this as his not playing has to do with him not working hard enough in practice as he is the only scholarship player not getting minutes on the floor.
 
tornado said:
read the above post....
I am agreeing with ER3's somewhat irrelevant comment that Indiana will be in the NCAA before Bradley.
I think it is all but guaranteed since they have the full backing and support of the NCAA.

anyway...I guess you won't be there tonight?
Click to expand...


I see..no I'm missing that game as well as BU's finale. I gave my tickets back to the basketball secretary so they could give them some family members of the seniors
 
tornado said:
wait a minute....all we've heard for months is that you can't use the excuse of having too many freshmen, too many 1st year players, too little experience, to many injuries...

and in fact, I really haven't heard Coach Les using any of those excuses even ONE time...

But here is a Big Ten coach using every one of these excuses, repeatedly in one single interview!!

"Tough Times Taking A Toll"

...Tom Crean admitted his team is tired. The admission came after another loss

Indiana has now dropped 21 of 25 games since opening 2-0, including 14 out of 15 in the Big Ten.

" this was bound to happen at some point with this team,??? Crean said of Wednesday??™s loss to Northwestern.
???We've asked a lot of them. A majority of theses guys would be redshirting on most??¦high quality level (teams) to get that year to get their bodies right
to get stronger and all those kinds of things, to learn the college game.
We are asking a lot of guys that have never done this before and it showed up tonight in a big way.???

...losing has worn the Hoosiers down. Crean figures the fatigue is more mental than physical.

???There is no question they are mentally drained...
We have to balance a very tight rope on building that foundation for how this is going to be, and at the same time trying to get the most out of every person
"There are so many things we have to get better at.
But the steam is running dry right now. We've just got to continue to focus on getting these guys better

...the Hoosiers are inexperienced. .

... the fans might be relieved when the 2008-2009 season is over, they can look to Crean to lead Indiana back to national prominence."
http://indiana.scout.com/2/842560.html


They're talking about the season being over?
They still have three regular season games left, plus the conference tourney and ? beyond (;))

also...the "steam is running on dry"?
and "We have to balance a very tight rope"?
He's the next Yogi Berra

BTW-- in this era of all the BCS schools getting to play 18, 19, and even 20 and more HOME games,
often as guarantee games against hideously weak opponents (like Northwestern State & DII Chaminade), and an
overall schedule that has 30-35 games, then you have to ask, just how hard is it for any BCS school
to win less than 10 games, let alone only 5 or 6.
The 2nd worst Big Ten team has 14 wins, and there are no other BCS schools with fewer than 7, but IU has only 5 DI wins!
Click to expand...


Did Rod Blagojevich steal your password and write that post?
 
Did people a number of people go to grad school at Indiana or something? I've been wondering for a while what the fascination with that program is here.
 
VeveJones007 said:
Did people a number of people go to grad school at Indiana or something? I've been wondering for a while what the fascination with that program is here.
Click to expand...

Let me take a shot at explaining this for ya VeveJones007...

There are Bradley fans and then there are Fans who root for Bradley and UIUC. And that's ok - no one is a better fan than the other. So for the UIUC/Bradley fans... they like to kick Indiana around and especially when they are down. :lol:
 
tornado said:
I wish I had a bud like Blago that could get me a cushy job that pays a bunch for not working, and looks the other way when I don't pay my taxes...
but sadly.......millions of lives depend on me so I have to go out and really work...;)

anyway...how is the situation at IU not like issue at BU when someone states BU is relying heavily on freshmen and inexperienced kids.
it's the constant and neverending excuse we see and hear about Indiana all the time. You can't watch any one of their games that they don't harp on how incredibly good IU has done considering all the youth and inexperience, but if you bring up that line in reference to Bradley, you get hammered.
Click to expand...

I never hear BU get hammered when they are on TV. You don't hardly ever hear announcers hammer any team on TV if they are putting forth the effort. That's for message boards.
But the situations are entirely different for these team T...you know that. JL is in 7th year here and Crean is taking over a screwed up mess.......I don't even see how they are similar other than they are both D-1 programs
 
Circling waaaayyy back to the original post about Butler, they seem to have a bit of "it" however you want to define it.

Is "it" a system that allows them to rotate through coaches every few years (all coming from within their own organization), and still turn out 20+ win seasons and make annual runs into post-season play?

I haven't been around their campus too much, but I don't think it is their facilities that give them a big advantage. Yeah, they've got the historical Hinkle Fieldhouse that they play in--right on campus (huh, who'd of thought that could work?!), but it takes more than that.

Do they have some special scouting approach, filling in the holes needed (see "system" above) to operate as a team on the court. Most of their players are from around Indiana. There's a lot of strong talent in Peoria (and central Illinois) too, though.

I think it would be interesting to study teams like Butler and Gonzaga and see what the keys to their success has been. (Speaking of Gonzaga, I remember yelling at them from among the Molinarmy when we hosted them for an NIT game about 15 years ago. BU and Gonzaga were at about the same point then...)

Them's my thoughts.
 
BradleyStuff said:
Circling waaaayyy back to the original post about Butler, they seem to have a bit of "it" however you want to define it.

Is "it" a system that allows them to rotate through coaches every few years (all coming from within their own organization), and still turn out 20+ win seasons and make annual runs into post-season play?

I haven't been around their campus too much, but I don't think it is their facilities that give them a big advantage. Yeah, they've got the historical Hinkle Fieldhouse that they play in--right on campus (huh, who'd of thought that could work?!), but it takes more than that.

Do they have some special scouting approach, filling in the holes needed (see "system" above) to operate as a team on the court. Most of their players are from around Indiana. There's a lot of strong talent in Peoria (and central Illinois) too, though.

I think it would be interesting to study teams like Butler and Gonzaga and see what the keys to their success has been. (Speaking of Gonzaga, I remember yelling at them from among the Molinarmy when we hosted them for an NIT game about 15 years ago. BU and Gonzaga were at about the same point then...)

Them's my thoughts.
Click to expand...

Butler recruits "shooters' we recruit "athletes".
Butler, while 4th from last in average experience is ranked.
They could be scary good in years to come. I would love a "mid major" to win it all.
 
tornado said:
Jim Les never said this.

Here is what Jim Les said...

"Bradley coach Jim Les...touted this group as his most athletic"
http://www.pjstar.com/sports/x1069310319/Reynolds-Rebuilding-a-difficult-process
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what BUFAN is saying, but it sounds like he is saying that Bradley has done a good job with what they have had to deal with, and that Butler was lucky this year in that they had no injuries. Unlike some of the negative talk we have seen this year, BUFAN seems to be saying we will be much better next year and that injuries do make a difference.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though. :)
 
BradleyStuff said:
Circling waaaayyy back to the original post about Butler, they seem to have a bit of "it" however you want to define it.

Is "it" a system that allows them to rotate through coaches every few years (all coming from within their own organization), and still turn out 20+ win seasons and make annual runs into post-season play?

I haven't been around their campus too much, but I don't think it is their facilities that give them a big advantage. Yeah, they've got the historical Hinkle Fieldhouse that they play in--right on campus (huh, who'd of thought that could work?!), but it takes more than that.

Do they have some special scouting approach, filling in the holes needed (see "system" above) to operate as a team on the court. Most of their players are from around Indiana. There's a lot of strong talent in Peoria (and central Illinois) too, though.

I think it would be interesting to study teams like Butler and Gonzaga and see what the keys to their success has been. (Speaking of Gonzaga, I remember yelling at them from among the Molinarmy when we hosted them for an NIT game about 15 years ago. BU and Gonzaga were at about the same point then...)

Them's my thoughts.
Click to expand...

I think you mean we hosted Butler in the NIT about 15 years ago. I don't think we ever played Gonzaga. We did play Pepperdine though a couple of straight years at the beginning of this decade.
 
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