Cardinals supposedly closing in on signing Matt Holliday....
www.fanfeedr.com/mlb/2010/01/04/cardinals-closing-in-on-deal-for-matt-holliday
www.fanfeedr.com/mlb/2010/01/04/cardinals-closing-in-on-deal-for-matt-holliday
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Cardinals offseason thread!
- Thread starter BU_EMT128
- Start date
$98.5 million dollars for 5 (or 6) years?!
That amount is about $25 million dollars more than Albert Pujols has made in his entire career! Pujols' salary last year was just $14 million, and he's the best player in baseball.
Holliday had a really nice 63-game partial-season with the Cards last year (.353, 13, 55). But he is not going to put those kinds of numbers up for a full season. Recall that he only hit .286 with 11 HR and 54 RBI in 93 games with the Oakland A's. And he will never be confused with a Gold Glove outfielder.
I never thought I'd see the Cards throw around money like the Yankees and Red Sox. What is Albert worth? What will the tickets cost, since the Cards don't have a lucrative TV deal like the Yanks, Red Sox, and Cubs?
That amount is about $25 million dollars more than Albert Pujols has made in his entire career! Pujols' salary last year was just $14 million, and he's the best player in baseball.
Holliday had a really nice 63-game partial-season with the Cards last year (.353, 13, 55). But he is not going to put those kinds of numbers up for a full season. Recall that he only hit .286 with 11 HR and 54 RBI in 93 games with the Oakland A's. And he will never be confused with a Gold Glove outfielder.
I never thought I'd see the Cards throw around money like the Yankees and Red Sox. What is Albert worth? What will the tickets cost, since the Cards don't have a lucrative TV deal like the Yanks, Red Sox, and Cubs?
Pujols' old contract was made 7 years ago at market price for an up and comer. His new contract will outweigh Holliday's new contract. However, it will not be an exorbitant amount. Pujols wants to stay in St. Louis, and signing Holliday will only go forward to keeping him. I guarantee he will give a hometown discount.
And lets be honest DC...throwing around money like the Yankees or Red Sox? With Holliday's contract, our total salary will not exceed 110 million. This will still be at least 25 million less than the Cubs and will maybe put us in the top 10 highest team salaries for the first time in years.
Edit....Also, Pujols current deal was 7 years/100 million with a team option..so technically 8 years/115 million. So I don't mean to be argumentative, but that deal is not more than Pujols has made in his lifetime.
exactly what i was about to say.
Anyway, I would imagine signing Pujols for 16-19 Mil per year for probably 7 years.
Here is where I got that figure-
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml
Scroll down to near the bottom where it lists his salaries for every year in MLB. This shows he has earned about $75 million total over his career.-
SALARY
2001 St. Louis Cardinals $200,000
2002 St. Louis Cardinals $600,000
2003 St. Louis Cardinals $900,000
2004 St. Louis Cardinals $7,000,000
2005 St. Louis Cardinals $11,000,000
2006 St. Louis Cardinals $14,000,000
2007 St. Louis Cardinals $12,937,813
2008 St. Louis Cardinals $13,870,949
2009 St. Louis Cardinals $14,427,326
Career (may be incomplete) $74,936,088
Pujols signed a 7 year $100 million deal, with the club option for 2011 which would make it $111 million. So I am confused, as the numbers just dont seem to add up.
I heard from a source over the weekend the official announcement will come Wednesday or Thursday. But nothing official yet.
The problem with the Holliday deal is.. when you re-sign Pujols for more than Holliday.. then figure in the next year or two you have to pony up money for Wainwright and Carpenter you will have 4 guys earning 60% of your total budget. That doesn't leave a lot of cash for the other 20 guys.
The problem with the Holliday deal is.. when you re-sign Pujols for more than Holliday.. then figure in the next year or two you have to pony up money for Wainwright and Carpenter you will have 4 guys earning 60% of your total budget. That doesn't leave a lot of cash for the other 20 guys.
cards payroll.. and interesting read
cards payroll.. and interesting read
How the payroll puzzle comes together for the Cardinals
By Jeff Gordon
STLTODAY.COM SPORTS COLUMNIST
Tuesday, Jan. 05 2010
How could the Cardinals offer Matt Holliday top dollar while sticking to a $100
million budget?
There are three reasons: The elimination of dead payroll money (finally!), the
healthy supply of young (cheap) players and the presence of freebie Julio Lugo.
Better money management and player development created this opportunity.
A year ago, the Cards had almost a quarter of their season-starting payroll
sunk into the Ghost of Troy Glaus (useless after shoulder surgery), poor Khalil
Greene (victim of anxiety disorder) and Adam Kennedy (paid to play elsewhere).
Those financial commitments are long gone now, to owner Bill DeWitt??™s
considerable relief. Shedding that burden gave general manager John Mozeliak
the ability to ride out the Holliday sweepstakes.
Equally helpful was the organization??™s large supply of young players in their
pre-arbitration stage. These guys can fill key lineup spots and offer bench
support, bullpen depth and starting pitching protection at minimal pay.
Center fielder Colby Rasmus should be an impact player this season. So should
shortstop Brendan Ryan and late-inning reliever Jason Motte.
Blake Hawksworth could help again. So could Tyler Greene, Mitchell Boggs, David
Freese and Jaime Garcia. None would cost much.
Although Tony La Russa wasn??™t thrilled to have so much inexperience at one time
last season, the growth of younger players made it easier for Mozeliak to stick
with the Holliday bid.
The Lugo acquisition factors in, too. He is a $9.25 million player working on
the Red Sox dime. He added an offensive spark last season while playing
multiple positions.
La Russa likes versatile veterans and Lugo provides that at almost no cost.
Sweet!
All these factors would allow Mozeliak to afford Holliday while making
additional moves to round out his roster. Look at how the puzzle is coming
together:
STARTING POSITION PLAYERS
Albert Pujols, $16 million. The Cards will exercise his option for 2011. And
the franchise will try to extend his contract long before then -??“ even if it
costs them some up front money. Mozeliak has been careful not to offer too many
players too much long-term money.
Ryan Ludwick, arbitration eligible (made $3.7 million last season). He is
hitting the crossroads of his career. He is due for another nice raise -??“ and a
long-term deal, either from the Cards or his next team. This future earning
power could also make him a trade target, if other players progress.
Yadier Molina, $4.3 million. His money rises next season, too, then he heads
toward free agency. Look for the Cards to extend him before he gets that far.
He is in that handful of players DeWitt and Co. are willing to commit to.
Skip Schumaker, arbitration eligible (made $430,000 last year). His shift to
second base greatly increases his value to the Cards -??“ and his potential
earning power.
Rasmus, minimum range. Coming off a solid rookie season, he figures to add
decent productivity at a modest price for years to come. He is a big key to
balancing the ???10 budget.
Ryan, minimum range. His brilliant defensive play makes him the everyday choice
to defend the left side. He may never become a ???plus??? offensive player at his
position, but he could hit for average and add some speed.
Freese, minimum range. Off-field problems threaten to derail his Cards career
before it really starts. That is a shame, because he figured to offer solid
production at low money for years to come, a la Schumaker.
STARTING ROTATION
Chris Carpenter, $14.5 million. The Cards have him signed through 2011, when he
will make $15 million. If he stays healthy -??“ and remains a Cy Young candidate
-- it could take bigger money to extend him past that. Cards management would
be delighted to face that dilemma in two years.
Kyle Lohse, $9.2 million. Dave Duncan needs to get him back on track. Lohse??™s
pay jumps past $12 million in 2011 and 2012 and the Cards would hate to see him
fall into the dreaded ???dead money??? category.
Brad Penny, $7.5 million. He could make another $1.5 million if he can manage
to pitch 204 innings. That will be a bargain if he stays healthy and seizes the
No. 3 slot. This was a classic one-year pitching bet. Penny hopes to turn a
bounce-back season into big long-term money on his next deal.
Adam Wainwright, $4.84 million. His money soars after this year. The club holds
options on him in 2012 and '13 for a total of $21 million. Buying into Adam??™s
free agency was a smart investment, as we saw last season. He is positioned to
succeed Carpenter as the franchise ace.
Garcia, minimum range. Duncan remains to be sold on him. Remember all the
Anthony Reyes hubbub? That kid just couldn??™t stay healthy. And Reyes couldn??™t
stay healthy in Cleveland, either. If Garcia holds up, he could give the
rotation a badly needed lefty presence. Or he could add a lefty middle reliever
to the 'pen.
BULLPEN
Ryan Franklin, $3 million. He will get another shot at closing. His deal
(which pays him $3.5 million in 2011) isn??™t so large that the Cards will HAVE
to keep him in the closing role if he struggles. Given his earlier success as a
set-up guy, this was a solid investment.
Trever Miller, $2 million. The Cards scaled him back to a one-year deal in 2009
after becoming concerned about his shoulder. Miller held up fine and earned
that second year back. That was a sound investment for the team.
Dennys Reyes, $2 million. He disappointed last season, but durable lefties are
hard to find. Duncan will find a way to get a better pay-off this year.
Josh Kinney, arbitration eligible (made $405,000 last year). He needs to pitch
his way back into the team??™s plans. Coming back from surgical repairs have
proven to be an arduous process. He must relocate his command to earn a job.
Kyle McClellan, minimum range. He has proven durable the last two years. But
can he become more of a shutdown reliever? He is still early in his career, so
there is time for him to sharpen his stuff.
Motte, minimum range. He is still working to improve his command and secondary
pitches. For a shade over $400,000 next season, the Cards can remain patient
with this project.
Hawksworth, minimum range. The perennial prospect finally paid off as a middle
reliever. He even moved closer to a set-up role, based on his reliability. But
he is just a low-cost depth guy until he proves otherwise.
Boggs, minimum range. He, too, will need better command to hang in the majors
this season. But he is just low-cost depth for middle relief or the rotation.
Eduardo Sanchez, minimum range: The loss of Chris Perez in the Mark DeRosa
rental created a long-range opening in short relief. This hard thrower rose
fast last summer to move to the front burner.
BENCH
Lugo. Maybe he won??™t help as much as he did during the latter stages of last
season, but he costs nothing. He has to be a plus, right?
Jason LaRue, $950,000. He re-signed to back up Molina. Given his improved
offense and proven ability to work with this staff, this was money well spent.
Allen Craig, minimum range. He can (sort of) play the corner infield and
outfield spots and he can really, REALLY hit minor league pitching. He is
overdue to get his shot at big league pitching. He could become a nice asset.
Tyler Greene, minimum range. He might still be the shortstop of the future. He
is a great athlete, a versatility defender (even playing center field in an
emergency) and offers both speed and power potential. In the near term, he can
fill in as a utility guy.
Nick Stavinoha, minimum range. He proved he can pinch hit. He is willing to get
behind the plate in emergencies. He is a handy extra player.
Jon Jay, minimum range. He offers some center field defensive protection. He
has a decent bat, gap power potential and a little speed.
According to our favorite Internet databank, Cot??™s Baseball Contracts, the
Cards have about $64.3 million committed for 2010, sans Holliday.
That figure also excluded Ludwick and Schumaker, two players who will score
bigger money -??“ either through arbitration or new negotiated deals. Nor did it
include Penny??™s incentive money.
That also excluded all the minimum-wage Cards competing for jobs in the lineup,
bench, rotation and bullpen. Those guys will average about $425,000 a pop when
they make the team.
So . . . even if Mozeliak closes the Holliday deal, the Cards will have a few
million left over to spend on another starting pitcher, a lefty hitter,
third-base protection (old friend Felipe Lopez?) and/or a veteran reliever.
Many bargains remain in the marketplace. Mozeliak should find enough odds and
ends to please his coaching staff. He has some leverage to make some minor
deals, too.
La Russa would have to lean on some younger players again in 2010, but the
tradeoff -??“ getting Holliday back in the clean-up spot -??“ would make that
adventure worthwhile.
cards payroll.. and interesting read
How the payroll puzzle comes together for the Cardinals
By Jeff Gordon
STLTODAY.COM SPORTS COLUMNIST
Tuesday, Jan. 05 2010
How could the Cardinals offer Matt Holliday top dollar while sticking to a $100
million budget?
There are three reasons: The elimination of dead payroll money (finally!), the
healthy supply of young (cheap) players and the presence of freebie Julio Lugo.
Better money management and player development created this opportunity.
A year ago, the Cards had almost a quarter of their season-starting payroll
sunk into the Ghost of Troy Glaus (useless after shoulder surgery), poor Khalil
Greene (victim of anxiety disorder) and Adam Kennedy (paid to play elsewhere).
Those financial commitments are long gone now, to owner Bill DeWitt??™s
considerable relief. Shedding that burden gave general manager John Mozeliak
the ability to ride out the Holliday sweepstakes.
Equally helpful was the organization??™s large supply of young players in their
pre-arbitration stage. These guys can fill key lineup spots and offer bench
support, bullpen depth and starting pitching protection at minimal pay.
Center fielder Colby Rasmus should be an impact player this season. So should
shortstop Brendan Ryan and late-inning reliever Jason Motte.
Blake Hawksworth could help again. So could Tyler Greene, Mitchell Boggs, David
Freese and Jaime Garcia. None would cost much.
Although Tony La Russa wasn??™t thrilled to have so much inexperience at one time
last season, the growth of younger players made it easier for Mozeliak to stick
with the Holliday bid.
The Lugo acquisition factors in, too. He is a $9.25 million player working on
the Red Sox dime. He added an offensive spark last season while playing
multiple positions.
La Russa likes versatile veterans and Lugo provides that at almost no cost.
Sweet!
All these factors would allow Mozeliak to afford Holliday while making
additional moves to round out his roster. Look at how the puzzle is coming
together:
STARTING POSITION PLAYERS
Albert Pujols, $16 million. The Cards will exercise his option for 2011. And
the franchise will try to extend his contract long before then -??“ even if it
costs them some up front money. Mozeliak has been careful not to offer too many
players too much long-term money.
Ryan Ludwick, arbitration eligible (made $3.7 million last season). He is
hitting the crossroads of his career. He is due for another nice raise -??“ and a
long-term deal, either from the Cards or his next team. This future earning
power could also make him a trade target, if other players progress.
Yadier Molina, $4.3 million. His money rises next season, too, then he heads
toward free agency. Look for the Cards to extend him before he gets that far.
He is in that handful of players DeWitt and Co. are willing to commit to.
Skip Schumaker, arbitration eligible (made $430,000 last year). His shift to
second base greatly increases his value to the Cards -??“ and his potential
earning power.
Rasmus, minimum range. Coming off a solid rookie season, he figures to add
decent productivity at a modest price for years to come. He is a big key to
balancing the ???10 budget.
Ryan, minimum range. His brilliant defensive play makes him the everyday choice
to defend the left side. He may never become a ???plus??? offensive player at his
position, but he could hit for average and add some speed.
Freese, minimum range. Off-field problems threaten to derail his Cards career
before it really starts. That is a shame, because he figured to offer solid
production at low money for years to come, a la Schumaker.
STARTING ROTATION
Chris Carpenter, $14.5 million. The Cards have him signed through 2011, when he
will make $15 million. If he stays healthy -??“ and remains a Cy Young candidate
-- it could take bigger money to extend him past that. Cards management would
be delighted to face that dilemma in two years.
Kyle Lohse, $9.2 million. Dave Duncan needs to get him back on track. Lohse??™s
pay jumps past $12 million in 2011 and 2012 and the Cards would hate to see him
fall into the dreaded ???dead money??? category.
Brad Penny, $7.5 million. He could make another $1.5 million if he can manage
to pitch 204 innings. That will be a bargain if he stays healthy and seizes the
No. 3 slot. This was a classic one-year pitching bet. Penny hopes to turn a
bounce-back season into big long-term money on his next deal.
Adam Wainwright, $4.84 million. His money soars after this year. The club holds
options on him in 2012 and '13 for a total of $21 million. Buying into Adam??™s
free agency was a smart investment, as we saw last season. He is positioned to
succeed Carpenter as the franchise ace.
Garcia, minimum range. Duncan remains to be sold on him. Remember all the
Anthony Reyes hubbub? That kid just couldn??™t stay healthy. And Reyes couldn??™t
stay healthy in Cleveland, either. If Garcia holds up, he could give the
rotation a badly needed lefty presence. Or he could add a lefty middle reliever
to the 'pen.
BULLPEN
Ryan Franklin, $3 million. He will get another shot at closing. His deal
(which pays him $3.5 million in 2011) isn??™t so large that the Cards will HAVE
to keep him in the closing role if he struggles. Given his earlier success as a
set-up guy, this was a solid investment.
Trever Miller, $2 million. The Cards scaled him back to a one-year deal in 2009
after becoming concerned about his shoulder. Miller held up fine and earned
that second year back. That was a sound investment for the team.
Dennys Reyes, $2 million. He disappointed last season, but durable lefties are
hard to find. Duncan will find a way to get a better pay-off this year.
Josh Kinney, arbitration eligible (made $405,000 last year). He needs to pitch
his way back into the team??™s plans. Coming back from surgical repairs have
proven to be an arduous process. He must relocate his command to earn a job.
Kyle McClellan, minimum range. He has proven durable the last two years. But
can he become more of a shutdown reliever? He is still early in his career, so
there is time for him to sharpen his stuff.
Motte, minimum range. He is still working to improve his command and secondary
pitches. For a shade over $400,000 next season, the Cards can remain patient
with this project.
Hawksworth, minimum range. The perennial prospect finally paid off as a middle
reliever. He even moved closer to a set-up role, based on his reliability. But
he is just a low-cost depth guy until he proves otherwise.
Boggs, minimum range. He, too, will need better command to hang in the majors
this season. But he is just low-cost depth for middle relief or the rotation.
Eduardo Sanchez, minimum range: The loss of Chris Perez in the Mark DeRosa
rental created a long-range opening in short relief. This hard thrower rose
fast last summer to move to the front burner.
BENCH
Lugo. Maybe he won??™t help as much as he did during the latter stages of last
season, but he costs nothing. He has to be a plus, right?
Jason LaRue, $950,000. He re-signed to back up Molina. Given his improved
offense and proven ability to work with this staff, this was money well spent.
Allen Craig, minimum range. He can (sort of) play the corner infield and
outfield spots and he can really, REALLY hit minor league pitching. He is
overdue to get his shot at big league pitching. He could become a nice asset.
Tyler Greene, minimum range. He might still be the shortstop of the future. He
is a great athlete, a versatility defender (even playing center field in an
emergency) and offers both speed and power potential. In the near term, he can
fill in as a utility guy.
Nick Stavinoha, minimum range. He proved he can pinch hit. He is willing to get
behind the plate in emergencies. He is a handy extra player.
Jon Jay, minimum range. He offers some center field defensive protection. He
has a decent bat, gap power potential and a little speed.
According to our favorite Internet databank, Cot??™s Baseball Contracts, the
Cards have about $64.3 million committed for 2010, sans Holliday.
That figure also excluded Ludwick and Schumaker, two players who will score
bigger money -??“ either through arbitration or new negotiated deals. Nor did it
include Penny??™s incentive money.
That also excluded all the minimum-wage Cards competing for jobs in the lineup,
bench, rotation and bullpen. Those guys will average about $425,000 a pop when
they make the team.
So . . . even if Mozeliak closes the Holliday deal, the Cards will have a few
million left over to spend on another starting pitcher, a lefty hitter,
third-base protection (old friend Felipe Lopez?) and/or a veteran reliever.
Many bargains remain in the marketplace. Mozeliak should find enough odds and
ends to please his coaching staff. He has some leverage to make some minor
deals, too.
La Russa would have to lean on some younger players again in 2010, but the
tradeoff -??“ getting Holliday back in the clean-up spot -??“ would make that
adventure worthwhile.
Holliday, the FA few thought the Cards had a chance to resign is back. Rumor I am hearing now however is that the yankees want Pujols as the DH. I would assume the cardinals will for all practical purposes give pujols a blank check, and will be done well before Pujols hits anything close to the open market.
errr, i will correct that to 22-24mil for 7 years
DeltaBrave03
New member
Cards sign Skip to a two year extension worth a guaranteed 4.7 mil. I love this kid and he is worth every penny of what we're paying him.
Future Walk-On
New member
very excited...pledged to have my Cardinal tattoo by opening day! :mrgreen:
love the skip deal...he is becoming very good at 2B
love the skip deal...he is becoming very good at 2B
Ticket prices are going up significantly, which is too bad because there are too many horrible seats in the new stadium. I'm not a Cards fan, but I like going to games. Paying $30 for a bad seat was too much last year. Ticket prices are probably going to go up by a lot more once/if Pujols resigns.
Future Walk-On
New member
who are you? you are so mysterious....(deutsch ist meine andere Sprache)
DeltaBrave03
New member
I would much rather pay $35 for a ticket and have a team compete for division championships every season. Than pay $20 and lose 100 games a year. Then there's cubs fans who pay $60 a ticket and well.... :lol: