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Boys to Men

Most of the Decatur kids have been deemed ineligible (Hobson, Hamga, Staiger, Stula) and thus far, Mac Koshwal is just about the only guy out of the dozens of over-hyped, potential stars, who is doing any good, and it seems the whole thing at BTMA was just a phoney prep school for the purpose of getting Mac to the NBA.
Mac is good, but his scoring is limited and he isn't doing much to keep DePaul above .500, and will probably jump to the NBA if he has the chance.
(Craig Brackins is doing well, but to his benefit, he only spent one year at BTMA and went to prep school after that)

So I reopen the question of how many of these kids actually benefitted from these prep schools?
Go back to the first post in this thread at top....I have updated it to show where all the players are if they can be found.
A few are languishing on the bench at D-I's, a few have been dismissed (Thijin Moses), a couple are at jucos, but the vast majority are deemed ineligible to play or are gone with no trace of where they went.
Remember, the coaches of the BTMA and Decatur Christian expected their entire rosters would be successful at D-I.
 
Being from Decatur, I'm actually a little more familiar with the situation at Decatur Christian, and I kind of take offense to you passing such judgment on the school and the program as a whole based on a limited understanding of what actually went on there.


First of all I want to point out that the roster you guys keep referring to is both extremely dated, and extremely sloppy. It looks like it was put together in about 10 minutes on a random Wednesday in June prior to the start of their season. There are 7 foreign kids listed on that roster who never enrolled at DCS, and never played a game with them.

Also some of you are getting confused by the players that were already at DCS prior to Huss getting there and bringing in all the foreign players. None of those players had much (if any) college basketball potential. When Huss said that all of his players would play division 1 ball, he meant those 9 (although some of them have had some setbacks).

Also a lot of you are hinting that DCS might have been some sort of a basketball factory in which the players weren't forced to study at all. That couldn't be further from the truth. I personally saw Beas and Lucca doing multiple hours of homework each night. In fact both have said that their transitions to college classes were made a lot easier by how hard they had to work at DCS to earn their grades. Several players at DCS spent significant time ineligible due to grades. I think all the players were trying hard, but going to a difficult school is tough when you consider English is not the primary language of a lot of these kids and they are studying American History for the first time and senior level English classes.

So I'll go player by player, and explain their situations:

Lucca Staiger - No Academic problems whatsoever. Lucca was a part of the starting lineup at Iowa State prior to the NCAA randomly deciding to enforce rules about foreign players playing on the same team with players receiving compensation. There's a ton of information about this all over the internet, and there is also a decent thread on this website with a lot of information about him here. FreeLucca.com is another website that shows how upset the Iowa State fans are about his situation. It is complete BS, but Lucca will bounce back, and he will likely be a starter this time next year.

Beas Hamga - Beas' qualification problems were the result of him attempting to graduate a year earlier than expected, and making that decision a little late (during the spring of his junior year). Beas passed his ACT in his third language, but the NCAA is worried about whether or not his classes his final year in Cameroon were actually high school level classes. They claim those classes were at the 8th grade level. I claim not to care, because he's clearly shown he has both the intelligence and knowledge to perform in the classroom at the college level by getting the needed score on his college entrance exam. Reports from Vegas say he's the best overall player on his likely NCAA bound team, but the NCAA has decided he needs to redshirt for a year to make sure he's ready to handle the load in college. Another BS decision. I think Beas will be drafted at some point and play in the NBA. He's a force defensively, and Kruger has him working his butt of shooting tons of jump hooks with both hands each day. He will definitely be a success story by this time next year.

Mario Stula - No academic problems whatsoever. People that watched DePaul practices seemed to think Mario would get major playing time as a freshman, but he separated his shoulder prior to their first game, and now it appears he'll be forced to miss a year and 8 games prior to the NCAA's anti-foreign rules. Rules in which they decided to make the penalty 5 times as severe (from 20% of one year to one full year) without spreading the word. Another BS NCAA decision, but Mario would have likely missed the entire year anyway. The only bad thing in this situation is that Mario now has to lose a year of eligibility when he was planning on using a medical redshirt.

Darrington Hobson - I think someone else did a better job of talking about Darrington in a thread I already linked to here: In that thread, SoyCityHoops said:
"(Darrington) is the poster child for all that is wrong with “prep school” basketball. He actually meets all the criteria to be an NCAA qualifier. Unfortunately, he received many of his credits from 2 separate schools that are no longer in existence (Gulf Shores Academy & Calvary Baptist Christian School). The NCAA red flagged his case and he was not able to provide the documentation on the classes from those schools to prove his case. He is now enrolled at Eastern Utah Community College. He hopes to enroll at New Mexico midyear 2008."
Since then several things have changed with Darrington. Just recently it seems that Darrington has finally admitted to himself that he is going to have to stick it out at CEU for 2 years. In his last two games he has scored 37 points, and 46 points, and I just heard from a junior college scout that he very well might be the best junior college freshman in the entire country. If he can keep his head on straight, I think Darrington has a decent chance to be an NBA player. He only played 3 or 4 games with DCS last year for a number reasons (mainly a high ankle sprain), but he was easily the best overall player on the team when he actually played. He is just a ridiculously good basketball player.


Duro Bjegovic and Ivan Gombovic were both Croatian and lived together. I don't think either of them learned English as well as they should have, and they talked to each other, and the other two Croatians on the team in their native language a little more than they probably should have. Duro was hurt for the majority of the year with a shattered thumb, and Ivan spent a semi-large portion of the year ineligible because of his poor English. I think Duro was offered a scholarship to Iowa over the summer, but he never qualified, and he ended up enrolling in Juco in Missouri. His numbers surprise me because he's actually a very good scorer. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a story behind it, but I'm not close to Duro or Ivan, and know less about them than the rest of the kids.

Ozren Bjelogrlic - You guys keep acting like Ozzy's name was spelled wrong purposely. It is just hard to spell. That whole roster looks like it was thrown together in like 10 minutes prior to most of the players actually getting to Decatur. Someone claims he's 21, but I don't see that anywhere. In fact, I think he turned 19 in October. It just seems to me as if the records of a kid who's played so much basketball in a country like Croatia would exist fairly far back... too far back for him to lie about his age. Perhaps in the case of an African player in a developing country it might be possible, but I don't think so in Croatia. Either way, it was always obvious Ozzy was on the border of being either a D-1 or D-2 player. He was asked to redshirt at Liberty, and he will transfer after he finishes his academic freshman year because he's unhappy at Liberty (a radical christian school with extremely strict rules that won't allow him to kiss girls or see rated R movies). If you'll remember, Liberty University is the former home of Jerry Falwell and his radical televangelist church.

Johann Mpondo - Johann didn't look like a D-1 player all year. He's another kid from Cameroon who is fluent in Spanish, French, and English. He had no problems getting eligible, but he kind of struggled on the basketball floor for DCS. But during the spring and summer of 2007, he played some very good AAU games, and got some D-1 notice from teams like New Orleans, Nevada, and Rhode Island. I'm not sure exactly what happened at Rhode Island, but that didn't work out for him, and he's spending a year at a post-grad prep school. He's really athletic and tall, and he's got a TON of potential, but basketball is just pretty new to him. I think he will be playing D-1 ball somewhere next year.

Ty Nurse - Ty was a sophomore, and he decided it was best for him to go back to Canada when Decatur Christian decided against bringing in new talent. He will probably play D-1 basketball in a couple of years.


So yeah, it looks bad when you group them all together, but the DCS kids were not put in a basketball factory, and it actually was a good thing for most of them. They were all put in an opportunity to succeed. The basketball program didn't stay there for a number of reasons mainly because the administrators and decision makers at the school weren't 100% behind making the program successful. Some of the people there didn't really like the attention, and didn't like the influence of the outsiders on their children. I suppose you'll have that when you have an extremely religious school. They weren't expecting this program to come in and stir everything up, and I'm guessing there were mixed feelings about it leaving.

Of the 9 players, 4 of them will be playing D-1 basketball next year (Lucca, Mario, Beas, Johann), 3 of them will be in junior college because of eligibilty issues (2 for struggling with English as a second language in Duro and Ivan, and Darrington Hobson with his blacklisted prep schools from his past), 1 will transfer to Juco because he's unhappy (Ozren), and 1 is still in high school. I'm not exactly sure how many kids lives' you're giving DCS credit for ruining, but you can go ahead and put that number back to 0.

I hope that clears some things up.
 
Thanks for the information. But count me as a skeptic. It is just too obvious that many of these foreign prep school kids are older than they say they are, and they come from countries where birth records can't be verified.

Here is Mario Stula of DePaul. Tell me he is just a teenager fresh out of high school--
510093.jpg


What about this kid, John Riek, does he look like a high-schooler?--
JOHNRIEK7_18150.JPG


And how about Festus Ezeli? This kid can't be less than 30.--
FESTUSEZELI8_1150.JPG


And Mac Koshwal, how long has he been around?
 
Mario will turn 20 this spring.

To be honest with you, I don't know how an average 19 year old 6'7" Croatian looks. Seems to me as if people from Croatia just have a lot of facial hair, and look generally older faster.
 
Decatur....thanks for the info and I trust your "sources"....but what you have posted doesn't signifcantly alter the overall premise.
Here was my premise.....that a lot of the kids from the local "prep" schools (BTMA, DCS) were years older than their counterparts, had played on teams that were deemed "pro" and that they'd have trouble qualifying at the D-I level.
Those are the things I said 1.5 to 2 whole years ago, and time have proven those statements correct.
Whether their ages are accurate or not will likely never be resolved here.....but see my last paragraph below, and you'll see what I mean about the skepticism.
After the cases in America of kids like Danny Almonte, Mac Koshwal, etc.....it is clear why some tend to be skeptical, since those are cases of kids coming into the US and intentionally lying and deceiving about their ages and birth dates. The kids from the US have no way to disguise their ages, it is frankly impossible, since the birth records are for the most part impeccable.
When Mac Koshwal was claiming to be a 14 year old freshman at Chicago Julian HS, and playing against other kids that are 14, he was in reality nearly 3 years older than that.
Funny how it took other schools complaining to the Chicago Public League, before they finally checked into the kid's background and found that he had indeed falsified his records and hid certain facts.
Earlier in this thread and others, I have pointed out that some of the European players have their names spelled differently in different sources, and even have differing birth dates, and recall that even the NCAA's official guide states some credentials from certain countries are notoriously inaccurate and false.

Here, read this post that quotes the NCAA's own guidelines for kids from Cameroon....and it is the same for certain other countries as well........
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=42869&highlight=cameroon#post42869
"Cameroon
NOTICE: A serious problem of falsification and alteration of records exists in Cameroon. Identification of such forgery is difficult and can be discovered only by using great caution in records evaluation"


BUT........every name on that list of players came from some news release or from the web sites of the schools themselves....I sure didn't make any of the names up.
If there's inaccuracy (and I never denied that some of those kids never played at those schools) then the inaccuracy was due to the schools themselves.
That list of players was NOT put together in 10 minutes, more like a couple hours of searching hundreds of older links and sources for those names.
But the point was to follow up on all those players who were linked to the prep schools, and even if you disagree with some of the facts, the overall conclusion is the same, that so precious few of those players have yet to play D-I ball, and even fewer are having an impact.

But either way....every source I can find says Mario Stula was born in 1987, thus making him 21 some time this year.
http://www.usbasket.com/player.asp?Cntry=USA&PlayerID=55085
http://www.basketpedya.com/Acc002InfJug.php?idjug=54986&idioma=3
http://217.13.116.51/finalfour/noticia.jsp?temporada=E02&jornada=20&id=457

so even your own statement that he'll be 20 this year is in conflict with every single source I can find.
and here.......see if you can explain this....
---according to IHSA rules, if you turn 20 before the end of the playing season in the sport you're competing, then by IHSA rules, you are ineligible.
Surely you know that rule, right?
Well, since Stula turned 20 before the end of the official-IHSA-defined end of the basketball season last March, then by IHSA standards, he'd have been ineligible.
BUT....quotes coming from DCS, claimed otherwise....
"These kids are all within normal high school age limits" (quote from DCS coach)
http://www.herald-review.com/articles/2006/11/10/sports/local_sports/1019055.txt

and I cited even one other quote elsewhere that claimed he might even be eligible for yet another year of high school!
 
You're right. Mario will turn 21 this Spring. I was wrong about that, and I apoligize... But wasn't his play allowed when DCS forfeited their eligibilty in the IHSA state tournament. I realize you have the quote from the coach, but that still doesn't change the legality of the whole thing as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps he actually thought Mario was going to turn 20 this Spring (or at least he thought that at the time of the quote). When you have 7 foreign kids on a team with 5 Europeans spending their first year in America, communication is difficult.


And I know you claimed there would be huge problems with this 2 years ago (even though the DCS project wasn't even in existance at that time), but you had no clue the NCAA would increase the penalty for these foreign kids playing on semi-pro teams (the only way for them to be discovered) where 1 or 2 players (not them) are compensated. If not for that rule, Lucca would be playing, Mario would be redshirting with a seperated shoulder, and Ozzy would be playing if he didn't hate the conditions at Liberty. Also Johann is not playing in college, but that had nothing to do with his eligibilty. These things happen with kids that are right on the bubble as far as being a division 1 prospect.

All 9 of the players brought in to play for DCS are still on track to get a college education and play basketball in America. That was their ultimate goal (although I think Beas and Darrington have NBA asperations). While you claim your major point was that a lot of these kids won't be eligible (something your prediction basically lucked into with the NCAA enforcing these rules), I think your major point has been that these programs are bad in general and bad for the kids. Well, DCS has all 9 of the kids on track to do exactly what they came there for, in spite of the trouble they got themselves into before they got to DCS. DCS also got a lot out of it because they made a good amount of money from the home games. The city of Decatur got to watch 2 great teams in DCS, and Eisenhower (Lewis Jackson/Jeremey Robinson) play including a fantastic head-to-head overtime sold out matchup. There was a buzz in the city of Decatur, especially since Maroa Forsythe (5 minutes outside of Decatur) won the 1A state championship that year.

You're grouping 2 schools together that were really nothing alike. DCS had/has high academic standards. The elite basketball program left because basically because a lot of the people there thought it was a distraction to their religion, and the overall well-being of their kids. Fair enough... But it certainly wasn't a failure to anyone involved, and I think DCS as a school is doing a lot better financially, and their enrollment is up.
 
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You are absolutely right about imposing the penalty on kids whose actions fully took place before the rule was in effect.
The official legal term there is "ex post facto"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law


I am not a legal person, but very few such rules or laws ever get passed, since they are inherently unfair to those who committed their acts or made their choices well before such acts and choices were outlawed.

According to the link above, ex post facto laws are not permissible under the US Constitution (Article 1, section 9 and 10), and although the NCAA is a private organization and although this ruling isn't the same as law, it is just possible a lawsuit that goes to the federal level might just get a favorable ruling from a good judge with a constitutional background. Of course how many college students really want to take the NCAA to the Supreme Court?

In the end, the NCAA is a little like the IRS. Most of the time they let little things get by, but once in a while they make a huge deal out of something that is a pretty small violation, and when they do, they seem to have an unlimited desire for punishment.


.....and maybe I was a bit unfair to count the DCS kids in the same boat as the BTMA, but to an outside observer, there were similarities.
 
That's understandable. No one who actually knew anything about them corrected you.

Ex post facto is exactly the term I was looking for.



Anyway, I had the opportunity to play against Ruffin, and Summerville (and Livingston for that matter) in high school, and I was pulling for Bradley when those guys were around. I like when Valley teams do well, and I hope you guys can get 2 or 3 into the tournament this year somehow. A friend of mine got to go to the NCAA tournament 3 straight years in a row on a Valley team, and I think it is just a really cool basketball conference.
 
Your Eisenhower kids are playing pretty well!
Way back when Lewis Jackson was in maybe 7th grade, I had the opportunity to take a summer team down to the AYB games at Millikin and our kids played against some of those kids (although of course JRob was still in Mississippi)
They were good then and they are really good now.
I am sure we'll be seeing them in a few weeks here in Peoria!
 
I really think Illinois made a big mistake in not going after Lewis Jackson harder. He's going to be a major thorn in their side for 4 years. He's just ridiculous. If you haven't seen him play lately and Eisenhower makes the state tournament, you have got to get to one of their games. He puts on a show.
 
Hey squeeky,
I can vouch for poor festus ezeli. Although that picture makes him look older, he walked into my office 2 years ago as a fresh faced 16 yr old who just wanted to learn basketball. Now he is an 18 yr old redshirt at Vanderbilt and will be an NBA prospect in 2-3 yrs.
-cc
 
Hey.....Decatur Christian still has a basketball team, just not an international program,
and their ex-coach, Alan Huss (Creighton, 2001), is still coaching, but he's at Culver Military Academy in Indiana.

His CMA squad just got edged out in their opening game of Regionals in the Indiana State playoffs, and they end their season 2-19.


They lost to Glenn HS (8-13) 63-26, as a 22-4 3rd quarter did them in.
It must not be as easy when you don't have Beas Hamga and Lucca Staiger!
http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080228/SPORTS11/802280367/1020/Sports



By the way....Culver is a small boarding school (in Culver, IN) that boasts at least a few well known grads,
one of whom is well known actor Hal Holbrook (Class of 1942!)
http://www.culver.org/whyculver/
 
I have updated a little of the info in the original post in this thread on page 1
which details that now we are actually 3-4 years since the original batch of
kids started at the two Illinois prep schools, BTMA and Decatur Christian.
Of the 62 kids we have tried to track who their coaches had claimed would
all be playing and succeeding at D-I, NONE have become stars yet, and only
a couple have even shown glimpses of good play (maybe Koshwal and
Brackins, although both have averaged single figures.)
For the most part these two prep schools did NOT serve their students well,
as most have either been deemed ineligible, have never played college ball,
or are gone back to Europe or otherwise unfindable.
 
I thought I'd update this old Boys to Men thread as two of the kids have done well enough for themselves to be mentioned of putting their names into the NBA draft.
Mac Koshwal has put his name into the draft but not hired an agent so he can return to Depaul
Craig Brackins has probably been the most successful player on the entire list, but he is returning to Iowa State. By the way, Brackins did next to nothing in the year he was at Boys to Men, then went on to another year at an east coast prep school where he flourished and became a top D-I prospect.

Out of 64 total whose names were connected with Boys to Men and Decatur Christian, only two (Koshwal & Brackins) are recognizable to most fans.
A handful of others have made it to D-I rosters, none actually starring in any capacity.
There's still time for a few to do well, but overall, so few actually went on to any real success that I am still convinced that BTMA and DCS were mostly bad for the kids lured there, as many never qualified and their credits and courses were largely worthless, forcing most to do extra years elsewhere or juco or become ineligible. Even Mac Koshwal took six years to finish high school, and Brackins took at least five.

Here are the 64 names...not all played at those schools, but in one way or another each of these names were mentioned or on a roster or were enrolled regardless of whether they played.


BTMA
Xavier Crawford
Craig Brackins
Thijin Moses
Michael Glover
Anthony Edwards
Djibril Coulibaly
Jamel Jackson
Leon Freeman
Kordero Anderson
Nyal "Mac" Koshwal
Raymond Sims
Spencer Adams
Timothy Kiewel
Alvin Abreu
Clarence Holloway
David Sanchez
Devin Miller
Elijah Dildy
Maurese Jackson
Jelani Poston
Jeremiah "Miah" Kelly
Timothy Baines
Turhon Cora Jr
Tyrone Justin Howard
Clay Johnson
Michael Tuitt
Angel Garcia
Manual Cass
Marcus Relphorde
Darion Anderson
Jesse Childs
Gerald January
Maurese Jackson
Aaron Jackson
Shawn Hilliard

DCS
Joel Johnson
Ty Nurse
Justin Snyder
John Taylor
Ivan Gombovic
Johan (or Johann) Mpondo
Beas Hamga
Austin Woods
Ozren Bjerogovic
Duro Bjegovic
Lucca Staiger
Jeliso Palacio
Brad Clark
Mike Behrens
Birama Konate
Chris Nandoe
Nikola Gacesa
Alioune Diallo
Darrington Hobson
Mario Stula
Michael Grady
Melvin Tate
Malcom Walker
Bronson Dotson
Demeatrio Wade
Zac Conrad
Matt Flint
Zack Stortzum
John Reimer
 
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