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Big East Catholic Schools Getting Restless

Indy_BB said:
Jeff Goodman reports that the Big East 7 talked about bringing in Xavier and Butler, which has been known for a year, but also (surprisingly) St Louis.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...a-state-of-perplexity-with-possible-breakaway
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Actually, I think St Louis is the most ironclad lock of any addition to the Catholic 7. Well, maybe Xavier, but I always thought StL would get the first call.

In any event, I expect those 3 to be their consensus. There's a lot of ducks to line up in a row first though.
 
Creighton and Wichita State - lose one and I think the Valley can hang on, at least until the football schools try to jump. Lose both and I really don't know.

Creighton fits the private Catholic profile, but maybe geography finally plays a factor.

Wichita State is good at the right time, but I don't know if the have the appeal on the east cost. I have a hard time seeing Georgetown or Villanova being excited to bringing in WSU, or Creighton for that matter. The Shockers also don't fit with the profile of private Catholic schools. If WSU stays, the Valley might be able to hold on.

I'm trying to convince myself that if CU and/or WSU leaves, it would be easer to pull a Gonzaga or Butler and stand head and shoulders above the rest of the conference. Then from there BU could become nationally known and successful. Have to get back to the top first though.
 
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The MVC without Creighton (the powerhouse today) is not a league that I would want Bradley to be part of...Just try to find a new MVC replacement at Creighton's current level. Darn near impossible. Given what we know officially (not behind the scenes), the conference is stuck in neutral and heading to REVERSE, while this would be a huge uptick for Creighton and SLU. Congratulations to them....

The Dakotas don't do it for me. We will need a resolution to this.

I support Dr. Cross' and the Board of Trustees efforts finding a solution with BU's interests being foremost collectively in mind.
 
This is going to be a legal mess.

The A-10 is on notice. MVC too. You'll see Gonzaga get aggressive now probably.

Mountain West could get aggressive trying to get their teams back. This probably ends Idaho's and NMSU's hope at remaining in FBS. The Big West just bent backwards adding SDSU and Boise, and it could go all for naught. Meanwhile, the CAA loses East Carolina, which means they need another team, and another AEC/NEC/MAAC/SoCon domino situation could occur.

This is probably going to ding a dozen or so conferences before it's over.
 
TheAsianSensation said:
This is going to be a legal mess.

The A-10 is on notice. MVC too. You'll see Gonzaga get aggressive now probably.

Mountain West could get aggressive trying to get their teams back. This probably ends Idaho's and NMSU's hope at remaining in FBS. The Big West just bent backwards adding SDSU and Boise, and it could go all for naught. Meanwhile, the CAA loses East Carolina, which means they need another team, and another AEC/NEC/MAAC/SoCon domino situation could occur.

This is probably going to ding a dozen or so conferences before it's over.
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And then there's Jank as an assistant at SMU...
 
Da Coach said:
The latest report from CBSSports is that it is a done deal- the 7 Catholic schools are moving ahead with forming their own conference for basketball.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...389753/sources-big-east-now-expected-to-split

This almost surely will expand and include St. Louis and Creighton.
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Well, this is a shame that this all looks like it's going to happen, but there are still a lot of "what ifs" to go through before this is all official. So who knows. Maybe there is still time for the Valley to make that surprise move.
 
stevebu91 said:
The MVC without Creighton (the powerhouse today) is not a league that I would want Bradley to be part of...Just try to find a new MVC replacement at Creighton's current level. Darn near impossible. Given what we know officially (not behind the scenes), the conference is stuck in neutral and heading to REVERSE, while this would be a huge uptick for Creighton and SLU. Congratulations to them....
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I don't entirely agree. I think the MVC can survive without Creighton, or any of the current members. It wouldn't be easy to replace them with a school equal to them now, but recall that Creighton was not always a basketball power. But there would be no shortage of schools that would like to get into the MVC.

Again, these programs are not where Creighton is right now, but they could benefit and thrive in the MVC.
Here are a lot of good midmajor private schools:
Horizon members- Detroit (which was a member of the MVC from 1949-50 and 1956-57), Valpo, and Loyola (how nice would it be to have a Chicago school in the MVC, and they would jump at the chance)
Ohio Valley- Belmont (they are the only private school in the OVC)
Southland- Oral Roberts (the MVC makes a lot more sense for them- they are the only private school in the Southland)
WAC- Denver, which is a private school, would give the MVC another large market, though it is geographically remote from the rest of the MVC.
Atlantic 10- If St. Louis is not included with the ex-Big East Catholic schools, they would be perfect for the MVC. They were members of the MVC in the past (1937-1943, 1944-1974), and some people there feel it was a mistake to get into the A-10.
And if the A-10 falls apart, there are a bunch of other good private schools to look at.

And also a lot of good public schools to consider-
MAC- Akron, Toledo, Ohio, NIU, and others (all 12 members of the MAC are public schools)
Other Horizon members- Cleveland St., Illinois Chicago, Wisconsin-GB, UW-Milwaukee.
Ohio Valley- Murray State would be the most attractive now, but 11 of the 12 schools are public .
Sunbelt- Western Kentucky would make the most sense, and they would probably jump at the chance to get out of the Sunbelt to get into the MVC.
 
let the speculation begin

Catholic college 'basketball names 'thrown' around in various press speculations as potential add ons to a new conference:

from the Atlantic 10(which has 16 teams):

St. Joe's
LaSalle
Xavier
Dayton
St Louis
Fordham
Duquesne
St Bonaventure

others from around the country:
Detroit
Manhattan
Marist
Creighton
Niagara
Iona
Canisius
Fairfield
Loyola-chi
Tulane
Gonzaga
St Marys (Cal)
Loyola Marymount
San Francisco

I'm sure I left someone out. Word is that the conference would certainly want a base in Philly (St Joe's LaSalle) and some closer competition for DePaul and Marquette (St Louis, Xavier Dayton....Creighton??).

It is also expected that any new conference member would field some good 'minor' sports such as baseball, soccer and track. Baseball is big with some of the Big East schools (St John's, Seton Hall),track too.

Some reports say that setting up a 'Catholic conference' has been resisted by most of these schools for many years. The members may in fact want non Catholic schools to be added -schools that have same type of interests re-sports rather than being exclusively a 'Catholic conference'(eg Butler).
 
Da Coach said:
I don't entirely agree. I think the MVC can survive without Creighton, or any of the current members. It wouldn't be easy to replace them with a school equal to them now, but recall that Creighton was not always a basketball power. But there would be no shortage of schools that would like to get into the MVC.

Again, these programs are not where Creighton is right now, but they could benefit and thrive in the MVC.
Here are a lot of good midmajor private schools:
Horizon members- Detroit (which was a member of the MVC from 1949-50 and 1956-57), Valpo, and Loyola (how nice would it be to have a Chicago school in the MVC, and they would jump at the chance)
Ohio Valley- Belmont (they are the only private school in the OVC)
Southland- Oral Roberts (the MVC makes a lot more sense for them- they are the only private school in the Southland)
WAC- Denver, which is a private school, would give the MVC another large market, though it is geographically remote from the rest of the MVC.
Atlantic 10- If St. Louis is not included with the ex-Big East Catholic schools, they would be perfect for the MVC. They were members of the MVC in the past (1937-1943, 1944-1974), and some people there feel it was a mistake to get into the A-10.
And if the A-10 falls apart, there are a bunch of other good private schools to look at.

And also a lot of good public schools to consider-
MAC- Akron, Toledo, Ohio, NIU, and others (all 12 members of the MAC are public schools)
Other Horizon members- Cleveland St., Illinois Chicago, Wisconsin-GB, UW-Milwaukee.
Ohio Valley- Murray State would be the most attractive now, but 11 of the 12 schools are public .
Sunbelt- Western Kentucky would make the most sense, and they would probably jump at the chance to get out of the Sunbelt to get into the MVC.
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Those are all good choices, but I don't think any of then aside from St. Louis, Valpo, Oral Roberts and Murray State could replace the strength of Creighton right now. But as you said DC, some can definitely grow into strong programs.

Ohio did make the Sweet 16 (and almost the Elite 8) last year, and of course Kent State is a strong program too. Even UIC is having a great start this year. I just think it will take awhile to replace a program that has been to the Big Dance about 8 or 9 times the past decade.

I still think Butler would make the most sense in the MVC from a geographical point of view. And the Valley would obtain another large market. Plus a Chicago school probably gets the Valley a nice tv deal in the Chicago market.
 
capecod said:
let the speculation begin

Catholic college 'basketball names 'thrown' around in various press speculations as potential add ons to a new conference:

from the Atlantic 10(which has 16 teams):

St. Joe's
LaSalle
Xavier
Dayton
St Louis
Fordham
Duquesne
St Bonaventure

others from around the country:
Detroit
Manhattan
Marist
Creighton
Niagara
Iona
Canisius
Fairfield
Loyola-chi
Tulane
Gonzaga
St Marys (Cal)
Loyola Marymount
San Francisco

I'm sure I left someone out. Word is that the conference would certainly want a base in Philly (St Joe's LaSalle) and some closer competition for DePaul and Marquette (St Louis, Xavier Dayton....Creighton??).

It is also expected that any new conference member would field some good 'minor' sports such as baseball, soccer and track. Baseball is big with some of the Big East schools (St John's, Seton Hall),track too.

Some reports say that setting up a 'Catholic conference' has been resisted by most of these schools for many years. The members may in fact want non Catholic schools to be added -schools that have same type of interests re-sports rather than being exclusively a 'Catholic conference'(eg Butler).
Click to expand...

They already have a Philaldelphia base in Villanova. Creighton always feels like a major stretch for me as it's no closer to Chicago or Milwaukee than the schools out East. The country gets really big west of the Mississippi.
 
thefish7 said:
They already have a Philaldelphia base in Villanova. Creighton always feels like a major stretch for me as it's no closer to Chicago or Milwaukee than the schools out East.
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One school is not a 'base'.
I think the writer who was discussing a 'Philly base' was referring to having at least 3 of the Big Five in the same conference. That would make Philly a strong base for the new conference. Seton Hall and St John's and add Fordham and you have a nice NYC 'base' too.

I think that if the 'Big East 7' are worried about travel costs for their minor sports in particular. Expanding past St Louis/Chicago just maybe 'the bridge too far' cost wise. Creighton just maybe too far away.

My old friends from Connecticut are beside themselves this morning-being left behind to play SMU, Houston and Navy etc. But of course the Huskies would have left the '7' in a heartbeat if the ACC had come calling
 
I'm really hoping that BU has a plan or two in its playbook. The way things are shaping up I'm predicting by 2015 the MVC will not be the same conference we know today. Looking at the changing landscape I believe the status quo is not good enough. In a 16-20 team two division Big East CU is close enough for a Georgetown to go out there every other year depending on how they decide to schedule. The only saving grace could be greed. The Big East will not head out too far out of their region because it will dilute their markets share of the TV contracts that they can bring from their perspective markets. St. John, Villanova and G'twn bring in considerable weight along with DePaul.

In the new reality of TV contracts the makeup of the present day MVC will not cut it. I also expect to see ISUred and SIU look for better football alternatives. I'm sure they are looking at what NIU has done and believe it is possible for them.

Changes are coming and those in the best position and have planned for these possibilities will come up on top. Ideally we can sit under The Big East umbrella in The Big Midwest Division!
 
Do the other posters really want to stay in a conference without the top power Creighton and an overbalance of public schools with a dissimilar academic profile as BUs?

Creighton has successfully built a very strong program over the past 10 years by prototyping all sports models first completed by privates Standford (25 years ago) and Notre Dame (10-12 years ago). Congratulations to them. Go where you can get better competition and tv revenue.

Sure, the conference will survive without them, but the RPI and profile changes. Sure, Loyola or someone similar could be added, but, would this offer fans any excitement?

Agreed that the NIU Huskies have the other MVC FCS schools wetting their appetities or something similar..... The MVC won't be the same, and BU should get into a conference of like private schools fitting its academic profile as well.

Don't stand for less or neutral...Push forward and IMPROVE YOUR POSITION BU......
 
stevebu91 said:
...
Don't stand for less or neutral...Push forward and IMPROVE YOUR POSITION BU......
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OK, you and many others have said this, but what exactly do you propose?
The only consistently "better" conferences than the MVC are-
ACC
Big East
SEC
Big Ten
Big 12
Pac 12
Atlantic 10

That's it. Bradley would not stand a chance of being considered by the Catholic colleges to be included in their new conference. And there is zero chance the first 6 (all major football conferences) would have any remote interest in Bradley or the Peoria market.
So that only leaves the A-10, which would have to loose a bunch of teams before they would possibly be interested in Bradley, and I am not sure that would happen under any circumstances, or the CUSA, which IMO is not as good a conference as the MVC (even without Creighton), and there are many other schools they would be likely to pursue ahead of Bradley (namely football schools).
Out of the next batch of conferences, only the Horizon League would make any sense at all for Bradley since it is basketball-only, but that is a huge step down.
So other than getting in on some completely newly created conference, which nobody is even talking about, I simply do not see anything even close to as good for BU than to stay aligned with the MVC schools. The MVC has survived well over 100 years despite the departure of a lot of other good schools along the way. They have always recovered from losing their top schools by adding others in the past, and would remain viable and successful by doing it again, IMO..
 
You are correct, the conference has SURVIVED 100 years, but over the past 20-30 years has it GROWN in SIGNIFICANT STRENGTH and PROSPERED. I would like to live for 100 years, but if the last 20 are the pits, I'm not interested.

Yes, you are correct, we would have to be a part of a new conference with like private schools simliar in academic and athletic profile. Forget the FCS schools, they are going to taste the NIU wine.

I wonder what the coaches think of a conference without Creighton. Sure, they are going to say one thing in public, but, for example, soccer (DeRose's team would practically only have itself to play -carefully said- with the few teams left), baseball, and basketball, the conference takes a major hit.

I'm not satisfied with a watered down MVC. BU's Name Recognition and Branding go nowhere. I believe, or hope at least, that Dr. Cross and our President feel the same way....
 
capecod said:
One school is not a 'base'.
I think the writer who was discussing a 'Philly base' was referring to having at least 3 of the Big Five in the same conference. That would make Philly a strong base for the new conference. Seton Hall and St John's and add Fordham and you have a nice NYC 'base' too.

I think that if the 'Big East 7' are worried about travel costs for their minor sports in particular. Expanding past St Louis/Chicago just maybe 'the bridge too far' cost wise. Creighton just maybe too far away.

My old friends from Connecticut are beside themselves this morning-being left behind to play SMU, Houston and Navy etc. But of course the Huskies would have left the '7' in a heartbeat if the ACC had come calling
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Ah, I get what you're saying about Philly now. It depends on what these schools are after, if it's maximizing your the breadth of your TV base then two schools in the same city don't make any sense. If you're looking for compelling rivalries they do. I feel like St Joe's is a nice fit for the Catholic 7, but who knows if they do. Also, I think Fordham and LaSalle ought to be way way out of any discussion for any conference involving those guys.
 
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