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Attendance Myth?

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As it relates to attendance, let me toss the ???out of town??? perspective out there.

I honestly don??™t buy the injuries concept, from my perspective, on this specifically (not as it relates to how the team would have performed & other arguments). Because for me, I need to budget money for sporting events and I know that I always try and buy tickets when they go on sale to the public due to driving/time concerns, as well as in the past, ticket availability concerns.

So with that said, my tickets were bought (11/2/10) long before the season (SM) and Taylor??™s injury (11/12/10). So, I guess my thinking is, aren??™t a lot of people like me? Don??™t they buy their tickets in advance, long before they would have known about the injuries?

Remember, it??™s not like the good old days where they??™d post a ???tickets sold??? and an ???actual??? attendance figure. So, whether or not I showed up, I was still counted in the figure. So on the flip, why were so few tickets sold early on?

It seems like there are only three answers:


  • Apathy (did not think this team would do well)
  • Scheduling (lousy non-conference teams to see at home)
  • Economy (people just can??™t afford to go)

I honestly think it??™s a combination of all three, but the injury thing should not be considered a factor as it relates to tickets sold. If someone can show me some actual numbers that explain people actually don??™t budget and they just randomly decide to buy most of their tickets close to the event (and as it relates to the bad, injury-plagued season) and therefore wouldn??™t go now, then great.
 
Da Coach said:
Every circumstance is different, and times have changed greatly. Your comparisons are not valid. Jim Les has had 5 winning seasons in a row until this injury-plagued year. Stowell never took Bradley to the NCAA, let alone the Sweet 16. Versace left for totally different reasons, and Albeck inherited a loaded team. Molinari has several of the worst and most excruciating years in Bradley history after he came, and took 5 years to get Bradley back to the postseason.

Nobody ever said give JL a lifetime pass. Just as nobody ever said we should give Joe Stowell a lifetime pass, thou there were some who still feel we should have.
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Agreed every circumstance is different. Remember, I didn't use Albeck/Versace. Your history is a bit off on Molinari.

Albeck's last season Bradley was 8-20 (6-10 MVC).

Mo was 7-23 (3-15) his first season, 11-16 (7-11) in his second and by his third season the Braves were 23-8 overall, 14-4 in the MVC (tied for second), didn't lose at home and made it to the third round of the NIT.

Tough to call those "several of the most excruciating years in BU basketball" and BU was in the postseason at the end of Mo's third season, not fifth as you state.
 
canadian said:
Agreed every circumstance is different. Remember, I didn't use Albeck/Versace. Your history is a bit off on Molinari.

Albeck's last season Bradley was 8-20 (6-10 MVC).

Mo was 7-23 (3-15) his first season, 11-16 (7-11) in his second and by his third season the Braves were 23-8 overall, 14-4 in the MVC (tied for second), didn't lose at home and made it to the third round of the NIT.

Tough to call those "several of the most excruciating years in BU basketball" and BU was in the postseason at the end of Mo's third season, not fifth as you state.
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Seriously, that's grossly inaccurate regarding Mo. 23 wins, undefeated at home, 14 MVC wins is 'excruciating'? Wow.
 
BradleyBrave said:
Seriously, that's grossly inaccurate regarding Mo. 23 wins, undefeated at home, 14 MVC wins is 'excruciating'? Wow.
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I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here, too because it got buried rather quickly and lost in the convo. Someone said we weren't regularly contending for league championships. Well, OK, not like the Versace Era, but certainly we were in the thick of it more often than not...


Mo's first 2 years were terrible, that can't be denied. But in terms of contention...we were right in the thick of it more often than not. Year-by-year starting in 1994:

1994: Tied w/ SIU for 2nd, 1 game out of 1st. Both Tulsa and SIU went to the NCAA, with Tulsa reaching S16

1995: 3 games out in 4th. Again Tulsa reached the Sweet 16 and SIU pushed Syracuse to the limit, 96-92 in the NCAA.

1996: 1st

1997: 2 games out in 2nd

1998: No.

1999: Loss during last week prevented sharing 1st. A road loss at Evansville the week before prevented a potential outright.

2000: No. It should be noted we were preseason favorites but endured what was then considered a disastrous season, finishing 14-16 and 10-8 in MVC play, still in the upper division.

2001: Dual 2nd place finishes. But did finish 2 games out of 1st.

2002: No.

It should be noted for 2 years, we couldn't beat a junior high team on the road which would've altered one or two of those close calls into Championships. But they also played a key role in his tenure ending.

It should further be noted that in many of those seasons 2 or 3 teams participated in the NCAA and some won games.
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In 5 of 9 years once Molinari started winning, we had chances in the final couple weeks of the season, winning the league once.

I suppose one could split hairs and say only twice did we truly "contend" and that's fine, I'll concede that...but again, why change our standards?
 
canadian said:
Agreed every circumstance is different. Remember, I didn't use Albeck/Versace. Your history is a bit off on Molinari.

Albeck's last season Bradley was 8-20 (6-10 MVC).

Mo was 7-23 (3-15) his first season, 11-16 (7-11) in his second and by his third season the Braves were 23-8 overall, 14-4 in the MVC (tied for second), didn't lose at home and made it to the third round of the NIT.

Tough to call those "several of the most excruciating years in BU basketball" and BU was in the postseason at the end of Mo's third season, not fifth as you state.
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I am Mo's biggest fan and supporter, but I have followed Bradley since 1967- I can say that 1991-92 and 1992-93 were indeed the 2 most excruciating seasons. And I don't need more than a millisecond to think about it. When Mo cleaned house, and Charles White is your best player and point guard (he wasn't even a point guard in HS), and Duane Broussard is your best shooting guard, you know what I mean. It took a complete rebuilding to over come that.

That is what I fear the next couple years if we go completely into rebuilding mode.
 
The thing about the comparison of this year to molinari's last is that molinari had an awful season (9-20), after a 19-12 campaign and without any crazy injuries and a good roster. That was a year a guy had to get fired for... almost no matter what he'd done previously. If les had had this year without the two huge injuries I don't think there'd be any disagreement.
 
Da Coach said:
I am Mo's biggest fan and supporter, but I have followed Bradley since 1967- I can say that 1991-92 and 1992-93 were indeed the 2 most excruciating seasons. And I don't need more than a millisecond to think about it. When Mo cleaned house, and Charles White is your best player and point guard (he wasn't even a point guard in HS), and Duane Broussard is your best shooting guard, you know what I mean. It took a complete rebuilding to over come that.

That is what I fear the next couple years if we go completely into rebuilding mode.
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But you were wrong about it taking five years to reach the postseason correct?

I didn't find 1992-93 excruciating at all actually. I knew it was new regime and there would be some growing pains. That team got better and better as the year went on with young players. Remember that team played great in the MVC Tourney and nearly knocked off #1 seed SIU. I remember fans being very, very excited about the future.

Maybe you remember it differently.

I do admit--if BU changes coaches there might be some growing pains. That is a part of the process.
 
Da Coach said:
I am Mo's biggest fan and supporter, but I have followed Bradley since 1967- I can say that 1991-92 and 1992-93 were indeed the 2 most excruciating seasons. And I don't need more than a millisecond to think about it. When Mo cleaned house, and Charles White is your best player and point guard (he wasn't even a point guard in HS), and Duane Broussard is your best shooting guard, you know what I mean. It took a complete rebuilding to over come that.

That is what I fear the next couple years if we go completely into rebuilding mode.
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FYI...Duane was never the shooting guard. Its a bit piece here, but he was never a shooting guard, ever.

Why do you assume it will be so bad now, when it wasn't so bad when JL arrived.

Do you feel that the new coach will have as many discipline issues as Mo had to deal with?

I don't. I also dont believe there will be near the exodus you do. Hey the players may even be saying that.

But the straw man is the next coach now. Not a real person, with real personalities and skills
 
canadian said:
But you were wrong about it taking five years to reach the postseason correct?

I didn't find 1992-93 excruciating at all actually. I knew it was new regime and there would be some growing pains. That team got better and better as the year went on with young players. Remember that team played great in the MVC Tourney and nearly knocked off #1 seed SIU. I remember fans being very, very excited about the future.

Maybe you remember it differently.

I do admit--if BU changes coaches there might be some growing pains. That is a part of the process.
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It was 5 years but two of them were under stanley.

The thing is...We are already 4 years into the process anyway.

IMO you cannot count the cbi and cit. They are not relevant postseason tournaments.
 
srw said:
FYI...Duane was never the shooting guard. Its a bit piece here, but he was never a shooting guard, ever.

Why do you assume it will be so bad now, when it wasn't so bad when JL arrived.

Do you feel that the new coach will have as many discipline issues as Mo had to deal with?

I don't. I also dont believe there will be near the exodus you do. Hey the players may even be saying that.

But the straw man is the next coach now. Not a real person, with real personalities and skills
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Andy Bastock, Xanthus Houston, and Scott Behrends were not discipline issues. Most of it was assumed or perceived by Mo, who had an extremely different set of standards of behavior than Albeck (who had virtually none). An earring was the issue with Bastock, and was not allowable by Mo. Anyone who follows Les will have it easy by comparison.
 
Da Coach said:
Andy Bastock, Xanthus Houston, and Scott Behrends were not discipline issues. Most of it was assumed or perceived by Mo, who had an extremely different set of standards of behavior than Albeck (who had virtually none). An earring was the issue with Bastock, and was not allowable by Mo. Anyone who follows Les will have it easy by comparison.
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Can you explain this comment? I'm not sure I understand it. I was under the impression that JL was a pretty strict disciplinarian... (a fact I like about him)
 
srw said:
It was 5 years but two of them were under stanley.

The thing is...We are already 4 years into the process anyway.

IMO you cannot count the cbi and cit. They are not relevant postseason tournaments.
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Exactly. Or if you do, you must concede Mo (starting in 1994) probably would've only missed the postseason 2 times (and maybe he even gets one in 2000 despite being below .500) if they existed. So you are looking at a participation rate of 7/9 vs. 4/9. And more of the NIT variety.
 
srw said:
FYI...Duane was never the shooting guard. Its a bit piece here, but he was never a shooting guard, ever....
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I know -- that's what Da Coach is saying -- we had NO BETTER shooting guard than Duane Broussard -- that was it....
pretty lean years where we were still routinely scoreless after the first TV timeout...and we often finished the game with as little as 37, 40, and 45 points.....
 
tornado said:
I know -- that's what Da Coach is saying -- we had NO BETTER shooting guard than Duane Broussard -- that was it....
pretty lean years where we were still routinely scoreless after the first TV timeout...and we often finished the game with as little as 37, 40, and 45 points.....
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Yep..and in two years Coach Mo and Bradley started a very impressive four-year run. In fact, you could say it started the second half of his second season.

The evidence is there that a new coach can turn the Bradley program around in 2-3 years--easily. Why so much doom and gloom now? Why don't you think it can happen?
 
tornado said:
you must have missed the 100 posts I have made in the past few days thoroughly explaining why I beleive this...they are easy to find...
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Wouldn't a true Bradley fan be optimistic that the Braves will be successful regardless who the new coach is? ;)

Is it about loyalty to the program or to a certain individual?

I know you seem to think all of these players will leave and that will cause Bradley to struggle for five years. I tend to disagree and factual evidence backs that up.
 
canadian said:
Wouldn't a true Bradley fan be optimistic that the Braves will be successful regardless who the new coach is? ;)

Is it about loyalty to the program or to a certain individual?

I know you seem to think all of these players will leave and that will cause Bradley to struggle for five years. I tend to disagree and factual evidence backs that up.
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I wondered the same things.

BU proved it could be successful with an unconventional hire. I find it amazing that some of the biggest 'fans' think we're doomed to utter failure with a conventional hire.

I think BU is a great place with a ton to offer, and will attract some great candidates should the position ever become available again.
 
amckillip said:
Can you explain this comment? I'm not sure I understand it. I was under the impression that JL was a pretty strict disciplinarian... (a fact I like about him)
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Da Coach let me take this one for you.

JL has good guys. The new coach will get that advantage of whomever stays.


Mo had a tough time, with a coach with no discipline, and terrible talent.
 
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