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Andre Dawson to the HOF
- Thread starter Beninator
- Start date
Alomar not getting in is a travesty! Yea he spit in an umpires face but he did apologize and the ump excepted it and that should have been it. He was arguably the best 2nd basement in our generation if not ever.
I'm glad to see Dawson in. His numbers reflect those of the pre-steroid era and he was a dominate player during his time. Well deserved in my book.
I'm glad to see Dawson in. His numbers reflect those of the pre-steroid era and he was a dominate player during his time. Well deserved in my book.
Tell one thing in his stats that do not make him a first ballot HoF! How many Gold Gloves, batting titles, All Stars and championship teams was he a big part of? He was one of the best players in our generation regardless of position and was the best 2nd basement, period. There is not one 2nd basement that comes close to him and please do not say Ryne Sandberg came close. Check his stats before saying he did not deserve to be a 1st timer.
Personally, I preferred Sandberg to Alomar! That being said, neither Sandberg or Alomar should have been a first ballot HOF'er. imo I think that a first ballot HOF'er should be a true great of the game. ie Mantle, Ted Williams, Mays, Aaron, Clemente, etc etc etc.... Even some of these players whom I mentioned were not first ballot HOF'ers... I have seen the stats, but I prefer some of Bill James' interpretations. Will check that out tonight when I get home.
houstontxbrave
New member
Very good for Dawson he is deserving but not sure he is more deserving the Tim Raines.
Alomar not getting in is a joke, he was the premier 2nd baseman of his generation.
If Alomar is not first ballot, will Craig Biggo then also not be 1st ballot? Biggo probably was overall the better player. Close, but in their prime Biggo was better.
Question for the baseball people here, living in Houston everyone here is crazy about Jeff Bagwell. Convinced he is a for sure hall of famer. I believe outside of Houston he is not considered a hall of famer or atleast a sure fire one. He had some incredible seasons but were his seasons better or more Hall of Fame deserving the Frank Thomas.
Also, he has never been tested positive but it is very difficult to believe Bagwell went from from so huge to so small and then injuried and out of baseball so quickly. I just have a very difficult time acknowledging him as a guy who belongs in Cooperstown.
I think Thomas and Thome deserve more consideration the Bagwell. Is Thome a first ballot? I say no but the number of HR's in his career is staggering.
Alomar not getting in is a joke, he was the premier 2nd baseman of his generation.
If Alomar is not first ballot, will Craig Biggo then also not be 1st ballot? Biggo probably was overall the better player. Close, but in their prime Biggo was better.
Question for the baseball people here, living in Houston everyone here is crazy about Jeff Bagwell. Convinced he is a for sure hall of famer. I believe outside of Houston he is not considered a hall of famer or atleast a sure fire one. He had some incredible seasons but were his seasons better or more Hall of Fame deserving the Frank Thomas.
Also, he has never been tested positive but it is very difficult to believe Bagwell went from from so huge to so small and then injuried and out of baseball so quickly. I just have a very difficult time acknowledging him as a guy who belongs in Cooperstown.
I think Thomas and Thome deserve more consideration the Bagwell. Is Thome a first ballot? I say no but the number of HR's in his career is staggering.
patrick_o'brian
Member
This is GREAT NEWS! I got chills when I heard this. I loved him when I was a kid! He was and still is my favorite baseball player dead or alive. I met him a couple times he is a very quiet guy, but he appreciated his fans! Proud to say my FAVORITE PLAYER IS NOW A HALL OF FAMER! CONGRATS ANDRE!
Houston, this is a really good post! I'll offer some opinions with the caveat that we are talking about the steroid era so who knows what will come out in the future.
Re Biggio: With all the talk about Alomar and Sandberg on this thread, I think that Biggio was better than both players. I checked and discovered that Biggio is on the HOF ballot for the first time in 2013. Biggio isn't someone I would consider a first ballot HOF'er given my parameters from my previous posts, but wouldn't it be something if Biggio who did all the little things extremely well gets elected on the first ballot vote over Bonds, Sosa and all the other known steroid players.
Re Bagwell: I think that Bagwell is a HOFer given that nothing comes forward about his steroid use. I personally think that Bagwell was better than Thomas as Bagwell was the better all-around player. I don't think that Bagwell is a first ballot HOF'er either, but Bagwell will certainly benefit form the week HOF classes becoming eligible in 2011 and 2012.
patrick_o'brian
Member
if u sincerely think Craig Biggio was better than Ryne Sandberg, u are nuts and lose all credibility
Imo, Biggio did a lot of things that didn't always show up on the stat sheets. Consider this. Biggio was the fifth player ever to play a full season without grounding into a double play and missed the major league record without grounding into a double play by only four plate appearances! Stat wise he also has over 3,000 hits.
houstontxbrave
New member
No way you can say someone who thinks Biggio is better the Sandberg should lose any credibility. If you believe that then you simply are looking at this with Cub colored glasses.
As they say stats dont lie.
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=110987 - Biggio
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=121665 - Sandberg
Highlights:
Sandberg - 10 time all star, 9 time gold glove. 2386 hits, 282 home runs, .285 batting average, .795 OPS, 344 stolen bases, 403 doubles. Lead league once in HRS and 3 times in runs scored.
Biggio - 7 time all star, 4 gold gloves. 3060 hits, 291 home runs, .281 batting average, .796 OPS, 414 stolen bases, 668 doubles. Lead league 2 times in runs scored and once in stolen bases.
Its possible his plaque in the HOF may not even have the Cubs logo on it....
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4805223
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4805223