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We'll Rise UP again!

LittleBrave

LittleBrave

Active member
I think it just hit me today that WE ARE the MISSOURI VALLEY CHAMPIONS!!!
Didn't have much time to soak in with Arch Madness right on the heels of clinching the Sunday prior.

Sure, we'd all have loved to have given the nation a much better version of our Braves, the one who took control of the league by winning its last 10 of the regular season. Incredible focus by the guys (coaching staff) to keep that going, knowing that 1 game of slipping up could cost us the title.

This is undoubtedly a tough stretch - having to wait for so many conference tournaments to finish (some have yet to even start!) and await the announcement for the next game - to get that bad taste out of our mouths from Drake's nearly flawless game from guys who have been playing together for YEARS, wanting payback from losing the title - the one they wanted terribly that we stole from them. :) They were on a mission from the start of the weekend.

Now we get back to our mission - playing like we have for that incredible stretch of 12 games - accomplishing goals we only dreamed of at the start of conf. play...that we never imagined in the middle of the pack at the halfway point of the season!

Well done Coach Wardle and the great group of young men - you all have a LOT to be proud of! And so do WE as Braves fans!

wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==
. ​

I am pretty sure that when this season comes to a close, most of us would still rather have won the regular season after a 27-yr drought than to win another Arch madness title...
Hey! We'll get back to the Big Dance ladies & gents!
And Hey! We finished on TOP in the MVC!

That's what's keeping my chin up this week!
 
Great post!

My goal for the year every year is always to finish the season with single digit losses. To me that is the best barometer of a good season. It means 20+ wins and usually more than a few over 20. Is winning 20 games great? Yes, but not as great when there are 12,13,14 losses to go along with it. Having single digit losses and 24,25,26 wins is great. Combined with a regular season title, this team accomplished a lot.

Also, it is hard to win 3 games in 3 days. How many other regular season conference champions win their conference tournament every year? I think the number is a lot smaller than most people would suspect. In the MVC, the regular season conference champion has only won Arch Madness the same year 8 times out of the last 21 years. That is a 38% win rate for the regular season champ in St. Louis. Wichita State, regular season champs 5 out of 6 seasons from 2011/12-2016/17 only won Arch Madness twice in those years.

Its exceptionally hard to win the regular season and earn the auto bid in St. Louis. Its just too bad the conference is weak enough that a 25-9 record and regular season champs isn't good enough to get an at-large bid.

Still, we have another post season game to look forward too, and Wardle has the program going in the right direction. All we can ask every year is that we are competitive and have a chance to win the regular season or nab the auto-bid in St. Louis.
 
Stryker said:
Great post!

My goal for the year every year is always to finish the season with single digit losses. To me that is the best barometer of a good season. It means 20+ wins and usually more than a few over 20. Is winning 20 games great? Yes, but not as great when there are 12,13,14 losses to go along with it. Having single digit losses and 24,25,26 wins is great. Combined with a regular season title, this team accomplished a lot.

Also, it is hard to win 3 games in 3 days. How many other regular season conference champions win their conference tournament every year? I think the number is a lot smaller than most people would suspect. In the MVC, the regular season conference champion has only won Arch Madness the same year 8 times out of the last 21 years. That is a 38% win rate for the regular season champ in St. Louis. Wichita State, regular season champs 5 out of 6 seasons from 2011/12-2016/17 only won Arch Madness twice in those years.

Its exceptionally hard to win the regular season and earn the auto bid in St. Louis. Its just too bad the conference is weak enough that a 25-9 record and regular season champs isn't good enough to get an at-large bid.

Still, we have another post season game to look forward too, and Wardle has the program going in the right direction. All we can ask every year is that we are competitive and have a chance to win the regular season or nab the auto-bid in St. Louis.
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A program is built up one step at a time. Doesn't happen over night. That is how Gonzaga and St. Mary's built their programs up. I see Wardle doing the same thing.We will be back next year and the year after. The ball is rolling now. We just need to keep it rolling
 
egib52 said:
On this note have you seen the WCC bracket? I found this very interesting. It definitely protects your higher seeds.


Click to expand...

That is nuts. 3 byes for the top 2 seeds. If by some miracle the last 4 teams make it to the semi they would be soooo out of gas. Way unbalanced.
 
Also I see St. Marys got demolished by Gonzaga. Very similar to the braves whooping in St. Louis. Unlike the braves though they had a good non-conference season to back up their resume.
 
pauly616 said:
Also I see St. Marys got demolished by Gonzaga. Very similar to the braves whooping in St. Louis. Unlike the braves though they had a good non-conference season to back up their resume.
Click to expand...

Yep. With wins over ranked Gonzaga and San Diego State they gtot their signature wins. The loss to Gonzaga in their championship was also their only double digit loss on the season. St Mary's had close losses to good teams like Houston, which didn't hurt their metrics at all. Hopefully BU can have a similar type of season in the future.
 
I remember reading somewhere that the WCC bracket looks like that to appease Gonzaga so they wouldn't leave the conference. Honestly, I don't know if that's true or not.
 
OhRotanes said:
I remember reading somewhere that the WCC bracket looks like that to appease Gonzaga so they wouldn't leave the conference. Honestly, I don't know if that's true or not.
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Honestly, that's what I assumed. It definitely benefits the WCC to keep them. If we had a Gonzaga in the MVC I would be ok with it because a rising tide lifts all ships. WSU did not have the staying power to be that kind of school, but Creighton might have been.
 
egib52 said:
Honestly, that's what I assumed. It definitely benefits the WCC to keep them. If we had a Gonzaga in the MVC I would be ok with it because a rising tide lifts all ships. WSU did not have the staying power to be that kind of school, but Creighton might have been.
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I don't think Creighton could have risen as far as they have while staying in the MVC. The Big East gives them a lot more exposure with TV and really increased their recruiting. They were a strong program in the MVC for a long time but not a Top 25 contender like they have been about every other year since being in the Big East.
 
pauly616 said:
That is nuts. 3 byes for the top 2 seeds. If by some miracle the last 4 teams make it to the semi they would be soooo out of gas. Way unbalanced.
Click to expand...

I actually kind of like this in a way. Maybe it is a bit extreme, but it actually puts emphasis on the results of the regular season. How many times does the regular season champion miss the auto bid? In my post from 3/8 above you can see the MVC regular season champ has a 38% chance to secure the auto bid over the past 20 years. That is actually pretty low for the best team in the conference over a 2.5 month period. Maybe some teams don't want their conference champ to get the auto bid since they could end up with two teams in the NCAA tournament if the conference champ is strong enough for an at-large, but that is a pretty big gamble for a lot of small conferences.

Another question to ask is why actually give the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, or 12th team or whatever in the conference a chance at getting the auto-bid? These teams did not perform in the regular season. And while they don't have much of a chance to win a conference tournament, they still have a chance. Just a few years ago Valparaiso was in the tournament championship game against Bradley and they had finished 10th in the conference that year with an 11-21 overall record. That Valparaiso team did not deserve and auto-bid, and thankfully BU won that game and secured it instead.
 
Stryker said:
I actually kind of like this in a way. Maybe it is a bit extreme, but it actually puts emphasis on the results of the regular season. How many times does the regular season champion miss the auto bid? In my post from 3/8 above you can see the MVC regular season champ has a 38% chance to secure the auto bid over the past 20 years. That is actually pretty low for the best team in the conference over a 2.5 month period. Maybe some teams don't want their conference champ to get the auto bid since they could end up with two teams in the NCAA tournament if the conference champ is strong enough for an at-large, but that is a pretty big gamble for a lot of small conferences.

Another question to ask is why actually give the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, or 12th team or whatever in the conference a chance at getting the auto-bid? These teams did not perform in the regular season. And while they don't have much of a chance to win a conference tournament, they still have a chance. Just a few years ago Valparaiso was in the tournament championship game against Bradley and they had finished 10th in the conference that year with an 11-21 overall record. That Valparaiso team did not deserve and auto-bid, and thankfully BU won that game and secured it instead.
Click to expand...

It also keeps the top teams from having to face lower seeds at the end of the year just to destroy their NET ranking in time for selection sunday.
 
Stryker said:
I actually kind of like this in a way. Maybe it is a bit extreme, but it actually puts emphasis on the results of the regular season. How many times does the regular season champion miss the auto bid? In my post from 3/8 above you can see the MVC regular season champ has a 38% chance to secure the auto bid over the past 20 years. That is actually pretty low for the best team in the conference over a 2.5 month period. Maybe some teams don't want their conference champ to get the auto bid since they could end up with two teams in the NCAA tournament if the conference champ is strong enough for an at-large, but that is a pretty big gamble for a lot of small conferences.

Another question to ask is why actually give the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, or 12th team or whatever in the conference a chance at getting the auto-bid? These teams did not perform in the regular season. And while they don't have much of a chance to win a conference tournament, they still have a chance. Just a few years ago Valparaiso was in the tournament championship game against Bradley and they had finished 10th in the conference that year with an 11-21 overall record. That Valparaiso team did not deserve and auto-bid, and thankfully BU won that game and secured it instead.
Click to expand...

I agree. This method seems fair and puts a lot more emphasis on winning during the regular season.

Addendum: if the NCAA tournament just picked the conference champ and tournament champ from each conference, I wouldn't want it this way, but we all know that will never happen.
 
Stryker said:
I don't think Creighton could have risen as far as they have while staying in the MVC. The Big East gives them a lot more exposure with TV and really increased their recruiting. They were a strong program in the MVC for a long time but not a Top 25 contender like they have been about every other year since being in the Big East.
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Creighton does seem like the one team that left the MVC in recent years that has proven it was a good move for their program. The Big East has an extremely lucrative national TV deal with Fox Sports, which means a lot more money for them. And the national exposure helps recruiting and keeps them competitive. Having a good coach (and being able to pay him to stay) helps, too.
Check Creighton's records since they left the MVC in 2013. After a few mediocre seasons adjusting to the higher level of competition, they have been a consistent winning team the last several seasons.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...creighton/men/

For Butler, the pattern has been just the opposite. Since leaving the Horizon League and ending up in the Big East, they had a few years of initial success, but now have become a perennial also-ran. It is still more lucrative in the Big East, but they aren't the national power they had become-
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...ls/butler/men/

Of the other recent teams who left the MVC, none have seen quite the success that Creighton has.
Tulsa, who left in 1996, has bounced from the WAC to the CUSA to the American Athletic Conference. They had good success in the WAC, but after jumping to the CUSA and now the AAC, not so much. They have only 2 at-large NCAA appearances, one as a #13 seed and one as an 11-seed in the First Four in the last 20 seasons. And this year they hit rock bottom with a1-17 record in the AAC, 5-25 overall, and a NET of 323 and RPI of 329.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/tulsa/men/

Wichita State, who left in 2017, had several good seasons initially in the AAC, but now for the last couple seasons they have been also-rans. They have had only 1 NCAA Tournament appearance in the last 5 years, and that ended quickly with a loss in the First Four.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...ita-state/men/

Loyola left in 2022, and their success immediately disappeared. After 5 straight finishes at or near the top of the MVC, and 3 NCAA Tournament appearances in those seasons, they were awful in their first season in the Atlantic-10
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...loyola-il/men/

They finished in 15th place, dead last, in the A-10, with an RPI of 280 and NET of 268.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ings/_/group/3
 
Here are the conferences to root against and the order to root against them:

1. Big 10
2. Big East
3. Big 12
4. ACC
5. SEC
6. Pac 12

Feel free to change the order, but GO MID-MAJORS!
 
Da Coach said:
Creighton does seem like the one team that left the MVC in recent years that has proven it was a good move for their program. The Big East has an extremely lucrative national TV deal with Fox Sports, which means a lot more money for them. And the national exposure helps recruiting and keeps them competitive. Having a good coach (and being able to pay him to stay) helps, too.
Check Creighton's records since they left the MVC in 2013. After a few mediocre seasons adjusting to the higher level of competition, they have been a consistent winning team the last several seasons.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...creighton/men/

For Butler, the pattern has been just the opposite. Since leaving the Horizon League and ending up in the Big East, they had a few years of initial success, but now have become a perennial also-ran. It is still more lucrative in the Big East, but they aren't the national power they had become-
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...ls/butler/men/

Of the other recent teams who left the MVC, none have seen quite the success that Creighton has.
Tulsa, who left in 1996, has bounced from the WAC to the CUSA to the American Athletic Conference. They had good success in the WAC, but after jumping to the CUSA and now the AAC, not so much. They have only 2 at-large NCAA appearances, one as a #13 seed and one as an 11-seed in the First Four in the last 20 seasons. And this year they hit rock bottom with a1-17 record in the AAC, 5-25 overall, and a NET of 323 and RPI of 329.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/tulsa/men/

Wichita State, who left in 2017, had several good seasons initially in the AAC, but now for the last couple seasons they have been also-rans. They have had only 1 NCAA Tournament appearance in the last 5 years, and that ended quickly with a loss in the First Four.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...ita-state/men/

Loyola left in 2022, and their success immediately disappeared. After 5 straight finishes at or near the top of the MVC, and 3 NCAA Tournament appearances in those seasons, they were awful in their first season in the Atlantic-10
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...loyola-il/men/

They finished in 15th place, dead last, in the A-10, with an RPI of 280 and NET of 268.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ings/_/group/3
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Creighton has really accomplished the dream I have for BU. Since their first couple of years in the Big East they have become a team that has been ranked in the top 25 almost every other year. While they haven't had a lot of post season success, they are consistently getting in the NCAA tournament and usually winning a game.

I think Creighton's success comes from a very supportive University and fan base, two very good coaches over the past 20+ years, and fitting into their new conference really well. It's a dream come true really. However, their success was established prior to moving to the Big East. They had made it to the NCAA tournament 12 times in about 30 years starting in the early 80's up till their move to the Big East. They had the success and stability of a high performing program. Their move to a power conference just solidified the performance of the program and took it to the next level. This is very different than what happened at Butler and Loyola.

Butler & Loyola's success is IMO a product of personnel. Their coach was able to get the players needed to become a power program, and once gone, the success of the program has as well. Not saying they can't be good again, it is just unlikely. I expect Loyola's future to closely mirror Butler. I see no real reasons Loyola has an opportunity to succeed in the A-10. They did not have decades of strong performance like Creighton, and IMO have reversed to their mean, which is pretty darn poor performance. There really isn't anything about either Butler or Loyola that says they can have great success again outside of a chance at some amazing personnel acquisitions (Coach or players).

Wichita State is going to be an interesting program to watch in the future I think. I think WSU was closer to Creighton than Butler and Loyola as far as where their success came from. WSU is also a good institution with a very strong fan base, good facilities and pretty good market, like Creighton. I think WSU could go either way, but I think they have a better chance of maintaining a strong program than either Butler or Loyola.
 
The big difference between where Wichita State is now and where Creighton was is the money factor. The AAC does not have the big TV money deal that the Big East does, and Wichita State does not play football, so they don't share in the sizeable football money that their other conference members do. That will hinder their ability to recruit at as high a level as Creighton did, and maybe even the others in their conference. And if they do have some success, they probably won't be able to sustain it, and won't be able to pay a successful coach to stay.

And I agree about Loyola in the A10. Seems destined to be a long struggle.No natural rivalries, enormous amount of travel, and few of their games are on TV (other than ESPN+). Even after several years of great success, they don't draw all that well in the Gentile Center, and they get little media coverage even in their own city. The glow of their recent past success will fade, recruiting will get harder, and they will have trouble keeping up in the A-10. And if the few Loyola fans that made the trip down I-55 to St. Louis thought is was a long trip, now they have to travel to Brooklyn for the A-10 tournament. I wonder if any of them even bothered to make the trip this year, since they knew they would be one-and-done. In addition to much greater cost to get there, the hotels, and restaurants in NYC are way more expensive than STL.
 
Da Coach said:
The big difference between where Wichita State is now and where Creighton was is the money factor. The AAC does not have the big TV money deal that the Big East does, and Wichita State does not play football, so they don't share in the sizeable football money that their other conference members do. That will hinder their ability to recruit at as high a level as Creighton did, and maybe even the others in their conference. And if they do have some success, they probably won't be able to sustain it, and won't be able to pay a successful coach to stay.

And I agree about Loyola in the A10. Seems destined to be a long struggle.No natural rivalries, enormous amount of travel, and few of their games are on TV (other than ESPN+). Even after several years of great success, they don't draw all that well in the Gentile Center, and they get little media coverage even in their own city. The glow of their recent past success will fade, recruiting will get harder, and they will have trouble keeping up in the A-10. And if the few Loyola fans that made the trip down I-55 to St. Louis thought is was a long trip, now they have to travel to Brooklyn for the A-10 tournament. I wonder if any of them even bothered to make the trip this year, since they knew they would be one-and-done. In addition to much greater cost to get there, the hotels, and restaurants in NYC are way more expensive than STL.
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Agree 100%. I suspect Loyola will perform about as well as George Mason. Pretty crazy to think George Mason made a final 4 run in 2006 and then has only been back to the tournament twice since then, and hasn't made an appearance since 2011. It's way more likely Loyola ends up mirroring George Mason than not.
 
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