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Osiris Eldridge going in the 2nd round of the draft?

if we just look at a player and form a subjective opinion as you seem to want...then it's like deciding what movie is best when I like one but you like another...it is purely subjective and then there's no reason to even have a debate because we're each entitled to our opinions of which one is best..

BUT - I am offering precise, well researched and easily provable OBJECTIVE info on the guy and now,
you say let's just cast all that out and use our biases??

unless you mean something else by "BODY OF WORK", then I will cite this...
Soph -- 15.83 ppg, 5.69 rpg, 43.2% shooting, 39% from 3pt. - led his team to NIT against a weak set of opponents
Junior - 14.00 ppg, 6.18 rpg, 40.4% shooting, 35% from 3pt. - led his team to NIT against a weak set of opponents
Senior - 15.55 ppg, 4.03 rpg, 40.0% shooting, 35% from 3pt. - led his team to NIT against an even weaker set of opponents
...then also, assists, steals, and blocks are also all consistent within a couple tenths of a digit so they didn't vary much in any of those seasons either..and there just isn't a single statistical thing that more than a thread better as a senior that it was as a sophomore...plus I have been told many times even by ISU fans that they were disappointed by OE's lack of development and improvement as his career went on...
In fact you could almost make the opposite argument easier, that his shooting, rebounding, and other production actually went DOWN as a senior....maybe he got worse??

So -- if you say he got better from his sophomore season to his senior season...then give me just ONE piece of evidence, other than just a warm & fuzzy feeling way down inside that you feel it is true??
Just one...what did he do better as a senior than he did as a sophomore or junior?
 
dogsrus said:
And yet the past couple years they kicked our rears and we finished behind them in the MVC.....hmmmmm whats the problem? Coaching.....recruiting.....dumb luck?
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First of all, I'd say they "kicked our rears" once in king o's four years at isu, but here are the numbers from the past couple years.....

1-31-09 @ isu (isu wins by 4)


1-30-10 @ isu (isu wins by 19)


2-9-10 @ BU (isu wins by 1)


king o's averages in the three isu wins.....

33 minutes

11 points

2 rebounds

1.7 assists

1.7 turnovers

0.7 steals

Better look somewhere other than king o!
 
shaunguth said:
First of all, I'd say they "kicked our rears" once in king o's four years at isu, but here are the numbers from the past couple years.....

1-31-09 @ isu (isu wins by 4)


1-30-10 @ isu (isu wins by 19)


2-9-10 @ BU (isu wins by 1)


king o's averages in the three isu wins.....

33 minutes

11 points

2 rebounds

1.7 assists

1.7 turnovers

0.7 steals

Better look somewhere other than king o!
Click to expand...


Dinma?
 
tornado said:
Osiris scored 1838 points on 1547 shots while at ISU...(1.188 pts/shot, and 0.84 shots required per point scored)

but just for the sake of argument, let's compare him to Sammy Maniscalco and Andrew Warren who have completed only 3 years at BU - and we'll take OE's 3-year numbers... 1325 points on 1115 shots (1.188 pts/shot, and 0.84 shots required per point scored)

Here's what our guys have...
Sammy 1152 pts on 835 shots (1.380 pts/shot and and 0.72 shots required per point scored)
Andrew 1019 pts on 755 shots (1.35 pts/shot and and 0.74 shots required per point scored)

Thus it is overwhelmingly clear that OE's efficiency is way less than many players,
and he gets his impressive point totals from the sheer volume of shots launched.

Just as a last stat...here are the career scoring numbers that I project Sammy and Andrew - two of OE's contemporaries - who over their careers have played FAR superrior talent and opponents, would have if they launched the same number of shots in their careers as King O...

Sammy - 2135
Andrew - 2088
both numbers would place Sammy & Andrew in 3rd place overall in career scoring at BRADLEY ...
BUT...both figures would place our guys breathing right down Doug Collins' neck as ISU's All Time leading scorer....(Collins had 2240, nobody else at ISU had more than 1962, and nobody had more than 1736 since ISU has actually been playing as a real Division I big school against D-I opponents.

So I agree that Osiris Eldridge is among ISU's all time best, and no doubt he'd have been a good player had he been at Bradley as well...but I am NOT convinced he is better than a couple guys we have on our roster right now!!
Click to expand...

And people have laughed at me over the years for saying Steve Kerr would be the Bulls all time leading scorer if he would have taken as many shots as that ball hogging Jordan. I can use your logic to prove my point.:D
 
Basically you have given a perfect example to fortify my exact point, thank you.....
if you can't see the difference, then there's no use bothering to explain...
Steve Kerr was a situational piece of the offense...he only shot when the offense called for him to shoot...and when he did what he did best, his contribution led to the Bulls being a dominating team capable of winning championships...

Had OE likewise shot when he had his best opportunity and let the other parts of the offense have their shots...then ISU may well have been a better team..
One thing that DOES stand out in those stats...and the only thing that puts OE even on the first page of any stat nationally is shot attempts and 3pt shot attempts
 
T are you trying to say that OE was just an average over hyped player?

Maybe we can ask JL during his next Q&A what he thought it was like to prepare against him.
 
good - but talent in the realm of JC, AW, P'Allen, Josh Young, & others.....
athletically, could have been better but for the tendency to wild and bad shots and solo play
The best games the past few years for ISU came when Dinma led them, not OE
 
tornado said:
good - but talent in the realm of JC, AW, P'Allen, Josh Young, & others.....
athletically, could have been better but for the tendency to wild and bad shots and solo play
The best games the past few years for ISU came when Dinma led them, not OE
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Can't disagree with ya there tornado. But the NBA only cares about talent and when OE knows he is not the best player on the team (and most likely 10th-12th best) he has a shot to play "within himself". I could see him having the potential to be a terrific "lockdown" defender amd spot substitute at the next level with the right team.
 
I don't deny, and I think he's fortunate and I am happy for him that he is getting interest from some NBA teams..
they might just take a chance on his with his athleticism as they did on athletic kids like Nate Robinson, Speedy Claxton, Jamario Moon, and even like they did with POB on his height...
 
SFP said:
Maybe we can ask JL during his next Q&A what he thought it was like to prepare against him.
Click to expand...

I'd say JL did pretty good preparing against king o, considering his numbers in the three isu wins the past couple seasons weren't exactly up to par for a guy who many people think was the best player in the conference.
 
shaunguth said:
I'd say JL did pretty good preparing against king o, considering his numbers in the three isu wins the past couple seasons weren't exactly up to par for a guy who many people think was the best player in the conference.
Click to expand...

I think his point is that coaches repeatedly have talked about how O is the most prepared for player in the league- which then obviously keeps there attention on him more than other players... like Dinma... who had some monster games vs. bradley and others...
 
tornado said:
Osiris scored 1838 points on 1547 shots while at ISU...(1.188 pts/shot, and 0.84 shots required per point scored)

but just for the sake of argument, let's compare him to Sammy Maniscalco and Andrew Warren who have completed only 3 years at BU - and we'll take OE's 3-year numbers... 1325 points on 1115 shots (1.188 pts/shot, and 0.84 shots required per point scored)

Here's what our guys have...
Sammy 1152 pts on 835 shots (1.380 pts/shot and and 0.72 shots required per point scored)
Andrew 1019 pts on 755 shots (1.35 pts/shot and and 0.74 shots required per point scored)

Thus it is overwhelmingly clear that OE's efficiency is way less than many players,
and he gets his impressive point totals from the sheer volume of shots launched.

Just as a last stat...here are the career scoring numbers that I project Sammy and Andrew - two of OE's contemporaries - who over their careers have played FAR superrior talent and opponents, would have if they launched the same number of shots in their careers as King O...

Sammy - 2135
Andrew - 2088
both numbers would place Sammy & Andrew in 3rd place overall in career scoring at BRADLEY ...
BUT...both figures would place our guys breathing right down Doug Collins' neck as ISU's All Time leading scorer....(Collins had 2240, nobody else at ISU had more than 1962, and nobody had more than 1736 since ISU has actually been playing as a real Division I big school against D-I opponents.

So I agree that Osiris Eldridge is among ISU's all time best, and no doubt he'd have been a good player had he been at Bradley as well...but I am NOT convinced he is better than a couple guys we have on our roster right now!!
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The big difference is that OE can shoot off the dribble or create his own shot. Sammy needs to be open to take his weak set shot.
 
I disagree, Sammy can create off the dribble better than anyone else on our team and better than just about anyone in the MVC

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bufan73 said:
The big difference is that OE can shoot off the dribble or create his own shot. Sammy needs to be open to take his weak set shot.
Click to expand...
Really? I think Sammy deserves a lot more credit than that.

Countless times Sammy has created his own shot off the dribble. He's great at releasing the ball just at the right time with a seemingly awkward balance and arc to get the ball just over outstretched arms of big men.
 
bufan73 said:
The big difference is that OE can shoot off the dribble or create his own shot. Sammy needs to be open to take his weak set shot.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna disagree here too. Through their first three seasons, SM has made a much higher percentage of his 2-point shots than king o. In fact, SM has yet to shoot under 51% from inside the arc and king o's best wasn't even 48%.

To me, that says SM is doing just fine shooting off the dribble and creating his own shot.
 
I'm not going to compare SM with OE two different players. I'm also going to say that SM strong suit is not to create his own shot off the dribble. Yes he was effective driving in but creating a shot off the dribble is a different concept then heading to the rack. DR and WF were the two BU players that had that ability. SM is a spot up shooter and when played tight he can drive by you but not a stop and pop, get lose with speed player. He's strong enough to use his body to head to the rim.
 
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