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PJ Star's take on UMKC disaster - 'A Step Backward'
- Thread starter BradleyBrave
- Start date
SaintLouBrave22
New member
There is no Summerville, O'Bryant, Franklin, Ruffin, Boogie, or even Tuaui (?) on this team, not to mention Crouch who couldn't crack the lineup at that point. AW is a nice player but hurt, and Theron comes and goes. Beyond that I'm not real sure what's here. This team couldn't win 11 of 12 even if they were all against Ill-Chicago.
We have the players as far as I'm concerned....
Right now, the coaches are not making the right decisions and certainly not helping the progression of the players
Examples:
- Theron Wilson playing the 4
- David Collins starting
- Sam Maniscalco even playing w/ his injury
- Sam M. and Eddren playing at the same time
- Trying to play Will at the 5 when clearly he is a 4 or maybe even a 3
- The ridiculous guard oriented motion offense when our guards aren't great outside shooters
- poor coaching on man to man defense
- poor substitution patterns
BASICALLY----not putting our players in a beneficial position to compete and win games
I could go on and on, but really, we all know its there...we just don't have the players to run the Ruffin to Crouch type system...
And we certainly don't have the on the ball defenders like Ruff or Tauai or even Salley (at times) that can stop poor execution in half court man to man sets...
Some things that desperately need to be done:
a) Insert Will Egolf at the 4; rotate him and Taylor Brown
b) Place Theron at the 3 where he will be more confident and effective
c) Have Darian and Eddren fight it out for point position because we should be sitting Sam til he is completely healthy...no sense in getting him further injured and runing his confidence in November
d) Start Sam Singh...he's earned that much
e) Go to a more traditional box or post offense and get the ball to the short baselines and inside more often, which would be much easier to do w/ Will in alongside Sam, David, or Anthony
f) Either back off the on-ball pressure in the man to man or go to a 2-3 matchup zone...I apologize as I've figured out a 1-3-1 won't work w/ this team as we don't have a great point man to rotate....
g) Either stop the pointless token backcourt press OR actually work to implement a legitimate trapping defense and extend it
Ok...so this may seem like a lot, but really it wouldn't be too hard to fix in a short time...
I am fine with SM playing with pain if it is Feb/March but in Nov, there is no reason for a player who is injured to play. And even if he does play, and it was pretty apparent pretty early he could not move, it is on the coaching staff to shut him down and not put an injured player who is not capable of helping play.
Im all for toughness but somewhere along the line... and yesterday it was pretty early you take the high road and sit the injuried player.
I guess I don't fully agree with this.
Maniscalco scored 16 points and was the only offensive player that hit any shot outside of 4 feet yesterday...We needed him to play on offense yesterday or we might have scored 30 points and gotten beat by 40 by UMKC.
Did he get beat on defense? Yes. Did he get isolated on their best player and get taken to the rack repeatedly? Yes. Did his foot injury limit his mobility on defense? I'm sure it did.
But to me, I can't fully blame Maniscalco and I certainly don't want him on the bench yesterday. The coaching staff knew his mobility on defense would be limited yesterday...are they completely incapable of making adjustments to keep Sam out of those isolation situations where he was getting beat? You need him on the floor for his offensive potential...so, are the coaches so inept that they can't figure out how to play some zone with Maniscalco in the game to protect him from getting exposed? They can't draw up a basic 2-3 zone, a box and 1, or a triangle and 2 to keep him away from the one-on-one situations that he clearly is struggling with right now?
We supposedly spent the entire pre-season working on defense, and all we are capable of playing is one defense? The same hyper-aggressive, gambling, overplaying man-to-man? That's it? We have one defensive scheme and we are completely incapable of doing anything else? We have a guy in foul trouble, a guy getting beat one-on-one over and over, etc. and we are completely unprepared and unable to switch into any kind of zone whatsoever? I just don't get it. Here's a news flash to the coaching staff...make an adjustment! This current "deflections or bust" defensive scheme simply can't work when your bigs don't play helpside defense and the guard that keeps getting isolated on their best player has a bad wheel. Recognize that and make an adjustment that gives us a chance to succeed! That's Coaching 101, IMO.
Bradleyguy10
New member
I don't understand why some are calling for WE to be a 3 all of the sudden. Was it not this board that was soooo bitter and angry about Will playing around the 3pt line last year so much? He NEEDS to be a 4 and it's ridiculous to think that guy should be a 3. I agree he can't be a 5 and be the only "big" out there but a 3??? Really?
Secondly, I have been one to say that TW needs to be a 3 over and over again. However the more he plays this season the more I'm starting to disagree. The man is our top rebounder why can't he be a 4? Because of his size?? Who cares he's pulling in more rebounds than a 7 footer he can play the 4 and get a double double if his offense is on. Which leads me to my last point about him NOT being a 3. I do not think he has taken a 3pt shot YET this season. A 3 needs to have an overall skill and overall threat. He clearly isn't confident and isn't trusted to take 3pt shots so why should he play the 3 if he's making all his points in the paint or 10-15 feet out anyway. I'm not sure why he isn't taking 3's this year since he wasn't terrible last year, but the fact of the matter is...he isn't taking them.
Lastly, there are some saying that WE and AT can't contribute this year, and I'm TIRED of hearing people say it so matter of factly. How in the world can you know if they aren't ready? They have played hardly at all. Practice is different then games and if they bring more intensity than DC then I say bring them on and take your chances because we now are certain of what we are getting from DC in game situations......not much.
Bring on the firing squad.
Secondly, I have been one to say that TW needs to be a 3 over and over again. However the more he plays this season the more I'm starting to disagree. The man is our top rebounder why can't he be a 4? Because of his size?? Who cares he's pulling in more rebounds than a 7 footer he can play the 4 and get a double double if his offense is on. Which leads me to my last point about him NOT being a 3. I do not think he has taken a 3pt shot YET this season. A 3 needs to have an overall skill and overall threat. He clearly isn't confident and isn't trusted to take 3pt shots so why should he play the 3 if he's making all his points in the paint or 10-15 feet out anyway. I'm not sure why he isn't taking 3's this year since he wasn't terrible last year, but the fact of the matter is...he isn't taking them.
Lastly, there are some saying that WE and AT can't contribute this year, and I'm TIRED of hearing people say it so matter of factly. How in the world can you know if they aren't ready? They have played hardly at all. Practice is different then games and if they bring more intensity than DC then I say bring them on and take your chances because we now are certain of what we are getting from DC in game situations......not much.
Bring on the firing squad.
Oh dear! When our coach says he did not have this team ready to play, that's not good!
Yes.....especially when there was a full week to get ready for this game!
Lastly, there are some saying that WE and AT can't contribute this year, and I'm TIRED of hearing people say it so matter of factly. How in the world can you know if they aren't ready? They have played hardly at all. Practice is different then games and if they bring more intensity than DC then I say bring them on and take your chances because we now are certain of what we are getting from DC in game situations......not much.
Devil's advocate, what if DC and Singh are dominating in practice? Is Les supposed to throw WE or AT out in a game if they are getting beat by their own teammates? From what little I have seen from AT, it still looks to me like everyone on the court can push him around. He may have phenomenal post moves but cant use them if he gets pushed all the way back to the three point line. WE looks more like he could contribute, and I feel like he may get more minutes tonight. But I have no idea.
Maybe I was expecting too much out of a redshirt freshman and a sophomore. Lots of kool-aid to drink in the offseason.
SaintLouBrave22
New member
Devil's advocate, what if DC and Singh are dominating in practice? Is Les supposed to throw WE or AT out in a game if they are getting beat by their own teammates? From what little I have seen from AT, it still looks to me like everyone on the court can push him around. He may have phenomenal post moves but cant use them if he gets pushed all the way back to the three point line. WE looks more like he could contribute, and I feel like he may get more minutes tonight. But I have no idea.
Maybe I was expecting too much out of a redshirt freshman and a sophomore. Lots of kool-aid to drink in the offseason.
As I previously stated, there is no one in their right mind who thinks DC could be dominating anyone in practice unless its the high school JV squad...especially not on the defensive end...
Then again, I will use the addage that sometimes there are practice players and some guys turn it up for games...
DC= Reggie Hall
Plain and simple!
SaintLouBrave22
New member
I don't understand why some are calling for WE to be a 3 all of the sudden. Was it not this board that was soooo bitter and angry about Will playing around the 3pt line last year so much? He NEEDS to be a 4 and it's ridiculous to think that guy should be a 3. I agree he can't be a 5 and be the only "big" out there but a 3??? Really?
Secondly, I have been one to say that TW needs to be a 3 over and over again. However the more he plays this season the more I'm starting to disagree. The man is our top rebounder why can't he be a 4? Because of his size?? Who cares he's pulling in more rebounds than a 7 footer he can play the 4 and get a double double if his offense is on. Which leads me to my last point about him NOT being a 3. I do not think he has taken a 3pt shot YET this season. A 3 needs to have an overall skill and overall threat. He clearly isn't confident and isn't trusted to take 3pt shots so why should he play the 3 if he's making all his points in the paint or 10-15 feet out anyway. I'm not sure why he isn't taking 3's this year since he wasn't terrible last year, but the fact of the matter is...he isn't taking them.
Lastly, there are some saying that WE and AT can't contribute this year, and I'm TIRED of hearing people say it so matter of factly. How in the world can you know if they aren't ready? They have played hardly at all. Practice is different then games and if they bring more intensity than DC then I say bring them on and take your chances because we now are certain of what we are getting from DC in game situations......not much.
Bring on the firing squad.
On your 1st point - I wasn't advocating for Will to play the 3, I was just simply alluding to the fact that he is closer to a 3 than a 5....I certainly am all for him getting the majority of the minutes at the 4...I truly believe he should be ready, and what better to do than throw him right into the fire and see if he has it in him...
2nd - Theron is not a 4 simply because yes he's a leaper and can rebound well, but a legit 4 will take him to the cleaners...and as you noticed, it completely takes him out of his rhythm when he gets into foul trouble, and that would happen night in and night out against a true 4....(which coincidentally, most teams play)...look at UNI for example...would you really want Theron guarding Koch all night? We need someone bigger i.e. Will
3rd point - I couldn't agree w/ you more...Its time...actually it was time yesterday, last week...so on...
SaintLouBrave22
New member
I haven't seen practice, I wouldn't know. I don't think that Les would keep running players out on the court while better players sit on the bench. That does not make sense. You tell me what the reason is.
Not to take a shot at Sam M. but he did run him out there when he hadn't practiced in over a week...
16 points was good BUT his man scored 20....
Its really difficult for me to put that on Sam too because yes he does have defensive deficiencies, BUT the coaches should know this by now and play more zone when he's out there to cover that up...
They don't so I put much of the blame on them...
DC has had well 3 really poor games....how many games have we played? 3 Yes? Well, you can't honestly tell me Will couldn't have at least matched that? That being said, I'm calling for Will to be on the floor in ADDITION to Sam or David...so thats a different story in itself...
Oh, and to finish...I hate to be the bearer of this, but recall we spent 11 years w/ the former regime starting and playing, but mainly starting players that had absolutely no business being in there and he was very famous for the "practice players" syndrome...
So you can't really say that doesn't happen...
What I had always learned from actually playing is that your guys that worked the hardest in practice were not your star players...they were usually your role players and guys that gave the occasional timeout to timeout spark off the bench...while your star players are generally toning it down, but simply preparing themselves for what they will face come tip-off...
Matt Salley, Dan Adams, Reggie Hall are just a few names that come to mind...and each of those players are simply role players on GOOD teams...
Who is to say that DC isn't one of these players?
The reason I know all of this...yeah, I was one of the practice players...
I haven't seen practice, I wouldn't know. I don't think that Les would keep running players out on the court while better players sit on the bench. That does not make sense. You tell me what the reason is.
The only logical reason to bring Will out slowly would be a confidence issue (I have no inside info, just my guess) I think they killed Will's confidence early last year, so perhaps they bring him in slowly?
Unfortunatley, I think Will's future is set as a 5.
Next year's 5 is ???? AT? JP? We desperately need to build some experience at 5.
G
georgethedog
Guest
The only logical reason to bring Will out slowly would be a confidence issue (I have no inside info, just my guess) I think they killed Will's confidence early last year, so perhaps they bring him in slowly?
Unfortunatley, I think Will's future is set as a 5.
Next year's 5 is ???? AT? JP? We desperately need to build some experience at 5.
You may be right and that would be fine as long as he plays with at least another big player like AT and/or JP (but JP probably won't be ready as a freshman). Maybe Wilkins will finally be here and we will see a lineup with 3 players over 6'8" on the floor at the same time. Sorry, I am in BCS dreamland here with that last thought...