Ouch Jim Joyce... Ouch. For those of you who have not heard Armando Galarraga of the Tigers had a perfect game going with 2 outs in the ninth inning. A weak ground ball is hit, everyone takes their time to make the play, and umpire Jim Joyce signals safe. But he isn't safe. Replays show he was clearly out, and a perfect game is ruined by a blown call by umpire Jim Joyce.
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Perfect game? Nope...
- Thread starter BU_EMT128
- Start date
DeltaBrave03
New member
Joyce personally apologized to Galarraga and Leyland after the game. He said he thought he made the right call until he saw the replay after the game and that it was the biggest moment of the kids career and he blew it for him. I can't imagine how awful he has to feel. Proponents for instant replay on any play in baseball now how more fire power than ever, but I hope it never happens.
houstontxbrave
New member
I watched the Cardinals essentially lose a World Series on a very similar missed call and there was no do overs or whatever.
Look the umpire missed the call plain and simple and that happens. Now in that situation he really should have called anything out unless it was clear the runner was safe. Better to take heat from a losing team then the winning team, especially if a perfect game is on the line.
Just real bad umpiring by Joyce.
But if this is changed or a perfect game is awarded then that is even worse. The human element is still part of this game and until that is taken away you can not award something to someone post game because of a judgement error. If it were a rules error thats one thing but a bad call well it happens and personally that is a real part of this game.
Look the umpire missed the call plain and simple and that happens. Now in that situation he really should have called anything out unless it was clear the runner was safe. Better to take heat from a losing team then the winning team, especially if a perfect game is on the line.
Just real bad umpiring by Joyce.
But if this is changed or a perfect game is awarded then that is even worse. The human element is still part of this game and until that is taken away you can not award something to someone post game because of a judgement error. If it were a rules error thats one thing but a bad call well it happens and personally that is a real part of this game.
We'll have to agree to disagree, but there have been reversals by MLB in the past.
1908 Merkle game
1983 Pine Tar game
and 11 years ago when Frank Pulli used television replay to determine if Cliff Floyd hit a double or home run... almost 10 years before instant replay was approved...
I believe it is time to put a form of instant replay in the game. jmho
houstontxbrave
New member
No idea about 1908, 1983 was a violation of a rule not a judgement call and the Pulli thing, know nothing about it but a home run v double is currently reviewable, not sure why MLB would allow something against their rules 11 years ago to be a valid reason to reverse a call.
I hate instant replay in MLB regarding judgement calls. If you want replay then stop with the umpiring completely and just let replays make all calls period, including balls and strikes.
I guess I am old school to much because judgement calls have always been a huge part of this game. So if this sport is going to use replay then just do away with umpiring and use it all out.
Joyce made a real bad call, it was not the first and again the Cardinals lost a World Series because of a blown call. It happens, but I guess with the world being PC this will be reversed and the guy will get his perfect game.
A link with a very simplified version of the 1908 Merkle play...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Merkle
I am a bit of a baseball historian and specialize in pre World War II baseball.
What this link didn't state is that the fans would gather in what would now be the fence in the outfield. (the game was played in New York) When the play was supposedly over, the fans rushed the field and the Cubs players were fighting the fans for the "real baseball." (a Giants player threw the baseball into the crowd) So it isn't really known if Johnny Evers had the "real" baseball or not... This also helped the Cubs get into the 1908 World Series!!! :lol:
As for Pulli's use of instant replay before it was approved, I read about that this morning...
I am in favor of instant replay, but not for ball and strike calls...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Merkle
I am a bit of a baseball historian and specialize in pre World War II baseball.
What this link didn't state is that the fans would gather in what would now be the fence in the outfield. (the game was played in New York) When the play was supposedly over, the fans rushed the field and the Cubs players were fighting the fans for the "real baseball." (a Giants player threw the baseball into the crowd) So it isn't really known if Johnny Evers had the "real" baseball or not... This also helped the Cubs get into the 1908 World Series!!! :lol:
As for Pulli's use of instant replay before it was approved, I read about that this morning...
I am in favor of instant replay, but not for ball and strike calls...
ChewaBrave
New member
I don't listen to Colin Cowherd, or care from many of his views very often - but I had ESPN on in the background today and his commentary on the whole thing seemed pretty on point to me. The league will probably grant the kid a perfect game, and they should - but the crux of his point was that baseball is designed and played as an imperfect game. There are very few certainties in baseball, and thats just the way it is. Balls and strikes change depending on the officiating staff, the contours of the ballpark changes with every stadium, the back walls differ from park to park, and width, altitude etc. all of it is different and allows for a degree of uncertainty every time two teams play. Hell the two leagues have different rules - there just aren't many sure things. So it is difficult for me to get fired up over a bad call in a sport designed to be played with a degree of imperfection. And as he put it, the imperfection didn't cost them anything, it just forfeited a stat, again, a stat in a sport that is the least equipped to be judged by stats. Like i said, i think they will give the perfect game, and should, but that should be the end of it.
Above all, baseball should get this right. And IMO, the right thing would be to correct the error that Jim Joyce made (the call shouldn't even have been in doubt- it wasn't that close).
Comissioner Bud Selig is still deciding whether to reverse the call.-
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jXWPgWtpIkn67oiAZj4injwCTOPgD9G3ST100
Comissioner Bud Selig is still deciding whether to reverse the call.-
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jXWPgWtpIkn67oiAZj4injwCTOPgD9G3ST100
houstontxbrave
New member
I was at the Astros v Nationals game last night and the home plate umpire called a catchers interference with two outs and two on that allowed an inning to continue. The call was shown as incorrect as the bat did not hit the glove of the catcher. The umpire got the call wrong.
Should this call also be reversed and changed? Should every call that was ruled incorrect or later shown to have been ruled wrong be reversed? Or is it just the "big" calls?
I think if you change the call by Joyce you then are obligated to reverse any call that is not right.
imho...All this can be done very simply... Ball and strike calls as well as calls such as catcher's interference are not reviewable... Plays on the field and base paths, and home runs should be reviewable.
No. Of course not. Not every blow call should not be reviewed and changed by the league. Nobody wants that and nobody has asked for or will ask for that. But an incident like the Galarraga perfect game will be an embarrassment to MLB for decades. Maybe forever, if it is not corrected and made right. I believe MLB has a duty to intervene in rare instances like this which will cause serious harm to the reputation and integrity of the sport.
And I disagree. By correcting the Joyce blown call, absolutely nobody will ask for or expect every blown call to be reversed.
The precedent has already been set that the league has the right to reverse umpires' decisions after the fact. That is what happened in the pine tar game.
Already in this case, every party involved agrees the call was erroneous and wants it corrected, and it won't change the outcome of the game. Detroit still won.
DeltaBrave03
New member
I'm not completely sure how protests work in baseball, but if Detroit were to protest even though they won, the play could be overturned. Protests aren't uncommon however actually overturning the play is very rare.
houstontxbrave
New member
The pine tar game was a violation of the rules not a judgement call.
I obviously do not agree that a judgement call should be overruled and reversed, I believe a call is a call and thats how it is. If the call was a violation or misinterpretation of a rule then making a correction should happen.
An out/safe call at first base in not a misinterpretation of a rule.
Baseball strikes out!! Selig will not overturn call that cost perfect game!:x
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37479309/ns/sports-baseball/
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37479309/ns/sports-baseball/
Future Walk-On
New member
lame.
I am so tired of the slippery slope/dangerous precedent BS. We are human beings with the ability to differentiate situations and know that everything is not black and white. To overturn this call should have no effect on the future or past of baseball. Overturning the call hurts nobody as the game ended one batter later with exactly the same outcome. The call didn't cost anybody the game it didn't decide a championship it effected one and one person only. The cardinals WS game, while being the same kind of call, was COMPLETELY different and a pretty silly comparison really. That call was made with one out in game six. The cardinals had several opportunities to win the series before and after that call. Gallaraga had no chance before or after, that was it. The cardinals had the rest of that inning to win and the rest of the next game to rewrite history. This would simply change a stat...period. I suspect somewhere down the road when everyone is safe from the slippery slope fairy this will be changed and an old man will get what is rightfully his.
I'm old school when it comes to baseball and I'm 100% behind your statement never the less. Let's do what is right for once and not worry what may be in the future or how things were done in the past. Not everything done in the past, that society found exceptable, was the right thing to do.