Non basketball news- Major League Baseball lifts ban on Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson

[Da Coach]

Major League Baseball has lifted the ban and reinstated Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson

MLB reinstates Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson, making them Hall of Fame eligible

Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson were reinstated by baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred on Tuesday, making both eligible for the sport’s Hall of Fame after their careers were tarnished by sports gambling scandals.

apnews.com

Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson were reinstated by baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred on Tuesday, making both eligible for the sport’s Hall of Fame after their careers were tarnished by sports gambling scandals.
Rose’s permanent ban was lifted eight months after his death and came a day before the Cincinnati Reds will honor baseball’s career hits leader with Pete Rose Night.
Manfred announced Tuesday that he was changing the league’s policy on permanent ineligibility, saying bans would expire at death. MLB said 17 individuals had their status changed by the decision, including all eight banned members of the 1919 Chicago Black Sox, former Philadelphia Phillies president Williams D. Cox and former New York Giants outfielder Benny Kauff.

 

[Da Coach]

Does anyone think this is a bad idea? If so, I understand.
I think it's good. The bans served their purpose and penalized those players enormously. But it's time to move on and recognize them for the good they accomplished, IMO.

Btw, I also think it's about time Bradley finally retire Squeaky Melchiorre's number and put him in the Hall of Fame. I had a couple conversations with past BU President Gary Roberts about Squeaky, and heard all sides of that issue. He was not personally opposed to lifting the ban on Squeaky, but the academic side of Bradley was strongly opposed, and he did not want to inflame them. With the new administration, maybe that might change, too.

 

[molar50]

I agree. It is time to move forward. I do think in time there will be reconsideration for other baseball players: Sosa, McGwire, and Bonds.
I’m not sure about Lance Armstrong.

 

[yoda]

guys like Rose, Shoeless Joe, Squeaky did not gain an advantage on the field/court,
the other guys did, so their HOF accomplishments come into question.

 

[molar50]

What’s interesting about Pete Rose going to prison is that most people thought it was because of his gambling. It was for tax evasion, not declaring cash payments signing baseball cards. He served 5 months in Marion prison and 1000 hours of community service. I always enjoyed watching him play

 

[Da Coach]

Because his career was more than 100 years ago (1908-1920), most baseball fans today don't realize how great of a player Shoeless Joe Jackson was. His career stats are in the link below. His career batting average was .356, which is the 3rd highest career average of all time, exceeded only by Ty Cobb (.366) and Rogers Hornsby (.359). His career was cut short by being banned from baseball after the 1920 season while just 32 and still in his prime. He hit .382 his final season.
Stats- https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacksjo01.shtml

And his guilt in the 1919 White Sox gambling scandal is still in disputed to this day. He denied taking any money or throwing any games. He was acquitted of any wrongdoing by a jury in a famous 1921 trial, but the new baseball Commissioner, Kennesaw Mountain Landis, banned Jackson and seven teammates for life anyway.

 

[LukeBob]

Shoeless Joe admitted to taking the money under oath, although he most likely didn't act on it given he was the best hitter that series. Still, the Black Sox scandal almost sunk baseball and leagues need to take strong stances on gambling-related infractions to preserve their integrity. In the other case, Pete agreed to a lifetime ban in exchange for the MLB sealing their investigation.

I can see the merit to some of the arguments for their reinstatement, but you're not going to sell me on it until the steroid players are in. Bonds is the best player to ever swing a bat, and it's egregious the home run champion is out of the hall. If you're going to admit some, admit 'em all.

 

[Da Coach]

Shoeless Joe admitted to taking the money under oath, although he most likely didn't act on it given he was the best hitter that series. Still, the Black Sox scandal almost sunk baseball and leagues need to take strong stances on gambling-related infractions to preserve their integrity. In the other case, Pete agreed to a lifetime ban in exchange for the MLB sealing their investigation.

I can see the merit to some of the arguments for their reinstatement, but you're not going to sell me on it until the steroid players are in. Bonds is the best player to ever swing a bat, and it's egregious the home run champion is out of the hall. If you're going to admit some, admit 'em all.

The story of Shoeless Joe is more complex... it was alleged that Jackson admitted to the Grand Jury in 1920 that he took money, though the source of that claim has never been verified. Later during his trial, he denied he ever accepted any money nor did anything to influence the outcomes of games. He claimed he was tricked by the attorney that Charles Comiskey provided for him, who was also Comiskey's personal attorney, and probably was not looking out for Joe's best interest.
In the end, the 1921 jury trial found him not guilty of any wrongdoing. He was banned for life by Baseball Commissioner Kennesaw Mountain Landis, based on the unverified reports from the Grand Jury, and despite the jury trial acquitting him. And as you stated, Jackson was the star of the series. He had the best hitting stats of anyone on either team (batted .375 with 12 hits, which remained a record until 1964), he had no errors, and even threw out a runner at home plate.
Jackson maintained his innocence for the rest of his life, and all 7 other players involved each later claimed that Jackson was never involved in the scandal. However, several books I've read, along with several movies have found it to be a better plot to paint Jackson as guilty of throwing the series, though the truth may never be known.

 

[LukeBob]

The story of Shoeless Joe is more complex... it was alleged that Jackson admitted to the Grand Jury in 1920 that he took money, though the source of that claim has never been verified. Later during his trial, he denied he ever accepted any money nor did anything to influence the outcomes of games. He claimed he was tricked by the attorney that Charles Comiskey provided for him, who was also Comiskey's personal attorney, and probably was not looking out for Joe's best interest.
In the end, the 1921 jury trial found him not guilty of any wrongdoing. He was banned for life by Baseball Commissioner Kennesaw Mountain Landis, based on the unverified reports from the Grand Jury, and despite the jury trial acquitting him. And as you stated, Jackson was the star of the series. He had the best hitting stats of anyone on either team (batted .375 with 12 hits, which remained a record until 1964), he had no errors, and even threw out a runner at home plate.
Jackson maintained his innocence for the rest of his life, and all 7 other players involved each later claimed that Jackson was never involved in the scandal. However, several books I've read, along with several movies have found it to be a better plot to paint Jackson as guilty of throwing the series, though the truth may never be known.

That's fair, it is a little more nuanced. I do think Landis got it right at the end of the day though - he was hired to fix baseball's reputation, and a heavy hand was the only way to do that. Shoeless Joe may or may not have taken the money (one could argue that lying under oath could be grounds itself, but I digress), but he certainly did know about the scheme. It's conventional wisdom I believe that Comiskey got wind of it at the very least a couple games in, as well as most gamblers in the country (the players who orchestrated the scheme were careless re: information security). If Comiskey knew, the entire team certainly did - and in that case, none of the players / staff / Comiskey had a place in the game at that point in my opinion. Time heals all wounds and all that, but I think landmark historical events for the sports history should be preserved the way the forefathers of the game wanted them to be: no gambling in baseball.