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Hypothetical question for Bradley fans

I

Indy_BB

New member
As has been discussed periodically the last couple of years, the sheer size of the Big East and the fact that half of the teams lack a football team (and a legitimate claim to BCS dollars); it is likely the conference will eventually break-up along some lines. The hypothetical break-up has the potential to effect a large number of leagues including, but not limited to, the Big East, A10, CAA, MAAC, MAC, Horizon, and MVC.

Assuming at sometime this in deed happens, what would Bradley's position be on joining a league of 8-10 teams that included Dayton, Xavier, Butler, and other similar schools (Detroit, Depaul, etc). Remember the MVC has a ready-made replacement in St Louis who is just waiting for an opportunity to join the league.

Does Bradley favor joining a league that would be unquestionably superior OR do the years (and legacy) of the Valley create a feeling of obligation?

Of course, there's a lot of speculation here, but I was interested in your opinion.
 
A lot would depend on who else in exactly in that conference. We have a fairly regional conference as is, and we'd be leaping in ALL sports.

As far as basketball only, we leap in a heartbeat. The middle-to-bottom of that new conference would be so much stronger than the MVC, and that's not even a slight to the MVC. That league could become a power on the order of the old CUSA.
 
NO

NO

Good question. I am torn. In the past these are teams I always thought would be good to be in a league with. However whenever teams leave smaller leagues and go to say the big East or other conference, they seem to do worse and not improve the situation. I wouldn't want to lose Wichita, Creighton, etc. on our schedule. I still miss playing against Tulsa. If I thought we could still schedule those teams I might like it more, but it never seems to happen. So I'd say, stay in the Valley. You have a decent chance at making the NCAA sometimes even if you don't win the conference.
 
Heck yes!!!

Heck yes!!!

Think we'd be silly not to join and very sorry later.

I have to think that a conference that focuses mainly on basketball would demand attention from the selection committee, from recruits, and from media outlets.

Bradley not being in the premier "basketball" focused conference would be a shame.
 
St. Louis has repeatedly said they have little interest in returning to the Valley. They are perfectly content for the perceived better exposure they feel they get from being in the A-10.

However, the membership of the A-10 is not terribly thrilled with the strain St. Louis puts on their travel budgets. Rhode Island has publicly indicated they are open to leaving the league. But unless it's for a move up to FBS football and the Big East, that leaves the America East and CAA as their only options.

URI, Charlotte, Richmond, and Duquesne would likely be the first to leave the league in full for football considerations (the A10 hasn't sponsored football since 2006).

Any breakup leaves Temple as the most desirable remaining member (because of hoops and they already play FBS football).

Any breakup of the Big East, you will see the best remaining teams pair up between former BE and A10 members first.

Any leftovers will go to the CAA next.

I have always thought the following league of 12 private schools would be ideal:

East
Xavier
Dayton
Butler
Detroit
Valparaiso
Evansville

West
Creighton
Drake
DePaul
St. Louis
Bradley
Loyola-Chicago
 
I'd almost have to think if DePaul is involved, so would Marquette. Similar distance concerns for the east coast-based conferences.

It's only a matter of time before the first domino (the Pac-10 looking towards expansion or a school moves up a level to play Big East football) falls.
 
The A-10 has a lot of dead weight....
seriously, the bad teams and the teams that some who theorize "realignment" just don't want, like Duquesne, La Salle, Richmond, Massachusetts, St. Bonaventure, Charlotte, George Washington, and Fordham ...

these teams command HALF the votes in the A-10....
do you just think they are all going to vote themselves out of the A-10 so teams like Bradley, DePaul, and Valpo can join?

Basically the only way it'll happen is if BOTH the A-10 and MVC (both among the best 3 or 4 non-BCS conferences) fall apart simultaneously and then re-align....and I can feel safe in predicting that's not gonna happen in my lifetime...
 
Good point. Trade Marquette for either Detroit, Evansville, or Loyola.

The other big thing is you are likely to see bedfellows emerge (teams who have different strengths hold out as a "package" deal) which will cause a less-than-logical fallout:

Xavier doesn't have football, but Dayton does. But they will be a package deal.
 
tornado said:
The A-10 has a lot of dead weight....
seriously, the bad teams and the teams that some who theorize "realignment" just don't want, like Duquesne, La Salle, Richmond, Massachusetts, St. Bonaventure, Charlotte, George Washington, and Fordham ...

these teams command HALF the votes in the A-10....
do you just think they are all going to vote themselves out of the A-10 so teams like Bradley, DePaul, and Valpo can join?

Basically the only way it'll happen is if BOTH the A-10 and MVC (both among the best 3 or 4 non-BCS conferences) fall apart simultaneously and then re-align....and I can feel safe in predicting that's not gonna happen in my lifetime...
Click to expand...


I could DEFINITELY see the top 3 or 4 breaking away from the A-10, to join with leftover Big East schools in the event of a destruction in that conference.

Those schools would probably then extend maybe a half-dozen invites to other schools. It wouldn't be the MVC splitting up; it'd be other schools trying to poach us (and probably Drake. I'd say Evansville too, but UE is, well, UE).
 
BTW-- Andy Katz says that now the A-10 is looking to get a similar deal as the MVC & MWC got with their scheduling agreement...

So the A-10 is trying to work a deal with the West Coast Conference...
but the obvious probelm would the what to do with the bottom of the league...
a handful of bad schools at the bottom of the A-10 wouldn't have anyone to play since the A-10 has 14 teams while the WCC has only 8...

plus, the worst teams in the WCC are really bad also, like Loyola Marymount (3-28 ) and USF, so if those guys are matched against the 7th and 8th best teams in the A-10, you'd have a 330 RPI team playing a sub 100 RPI Team.....not exactly the kind of matchup the TV audience looks for.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4533599&name=katz_andy
 
squirrelgotdead said:
Good point. Trade Marquette for either Detroit, Evansville, or Loyola.

The other big thing is you are likely to see bedfellows emerge (teams who have different strengths hold out as a "package" deal) which will cause a less-than-logical fallout:

Xavier doesn't have football, but Dayton does. But they will be a package deal.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Dayton have non-scholarship FCS football? So does Drake, Valpo, and Butler. Those 4 could stick together.
 
tornado said:
BTW-- Andy Katz says that now the A-10 is looking to get a similar deal as the MVC & MWC got with their scheduling agreement...

So the A-10 is trying to work a deal with the West Coast Conference...
but the obvious probelm would the what to do with the bottom of the league...
a handful of bad schools at the bottom of the A-10 wouldn't have anyone to play since the A-10 has 14 teams while the WCC has only 8...

plus, the worst teams in the WCC are really bad also, like Loyola Marymount (3-28 ) and USF, so if those guys are matched against the 7th and 8th best teams in the A-10, you'd have a 330 RPI team playing a sub 100 RPI Team.....not exactly the kind of matchup the TV audience looks for.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4533599&name=katz_andy
Click to expand...



The A-10 is so screwed. There's so many problems with that proposal, the main one being that you know Xavier is going to want a marquee game every year, and none of the other games would truly help A-10 schools enough.

They got hung out to dry. There's no conference that they match up with well because of size and location. Perhaps the MVC, but that's been taken care of. All the other conferences they could play are a level up and aren't interested in them (BCS) or a level below them and would actually hurt the A-10.

There is one conference that could work: the CAA. But they will NEVER, EVER, do that, because partnering with the CAA would mean they're admitting to being relative equals with the CAA, and they would never do that.
 
Indy_BB said:
As has been discussed periodically the last couple of years, the sheer size of the Big East and the fact that half of the teams lack a football team (and a legitimate claim to BCS dollars); it is likely the conference will eventually break-up along some lines. The hypothetical break-up has the potential to effect a large number of leagues including, but not limited to, the Big East, A10, CAA, MAAC, MAC, Horizon, and MVC.

Assuming at sometime this in deed happens, what would Bradley's position be on joining a league of 8-10 teams that included Dayton, Xavier, Butler, and other similar schools (Detroit, Depaul, etc). Remember the MVC has a ready-made replacement in St Louis who is just waiting for an opportunity to join the league.

Does Bradley favor joining a league that would be unquestionably superior OR do the years (and legacy) of the Valley create a feeling of obligation?

Of course, there's a lot of speculation here, but I was interested in your opinion.
Click to expand...

Bradley would not be interested in such a new conference with those schools (Butler, Dayton, Xavier, Detroit) for the same reasons that Rick Majerus wants out of the A-10. Only if it included mainly midwestern teams would Bradley be interested. But I do not see that happening anytime soon. Bradley will remain in the MVC, for now it serves them perfectly.
 
I actually spent way too much time on this at one point, trying to align conferences by location, football, private vs. public, keeping conferences to a reasonable size, and so on and came up with a solution I thought would be pretty good for all.

A 10-team private BBall only conference-
Bradley
Butler
Creighton
Dayton
DePaul
Drake
Marquette
Notre Dame
SLU
Xavier
Strengths: Good basketball and I think Soccer conference, Good markets
Problems: Dayton & Drake play football. Loyola Chicago and Evansville could be alternate candidates

A 12-team state school/basketball conference with aims at BCS football for all members:
-- EAST --
Ill State
Indiana State
NIU
SIU
Western Ky
Memphis
-- WEST --
NDSU
Tulsa
Wichita St
SDSU
Missouri St
UTEP
Strengths: could be a good football and basketball conference. N Texas U a reasonable alternate for a "western division" school.
Problems: Kind of geographically diverse. Many football programs FBS right now.

Edit: Also "aligned" Big East, Horizon, and A10 to make those "conferences" above, but didn't bother to list the results here.
 
thefish7 said:
Edit: Also "aligned" Big East, Horizon, and A10 to make those "conferences" above, but didn't bother to list the results here.
Click to expand...


This is actually a key point - they're going to align first, and everyone else has to scramble to mish-mash a conference together - so most projections are out of whack for that reason.

As for the actual projections, ND is a pipe dream to end all pipe dreams - that ain't happening.

I do wonder, does Creighton's distance from the other schools become a factor? I'm not sure if schools from Ohio are all of a sudden enthused about traveling to Nebraska, even if it is a premier program. Remember, it's not just basketball - it's all sports - and certain A-10 members are already complaining about St Louis.
 
Yeah, for what it's worth NDU would be *only* for basketball there, maybe soccer, as I figure that's the only way it'd ever happen. Football for them would always clearly be independent because of all the cash that's worth to them.

Creighton was the problem geographically too, as you pointed out. Believe it or not, I worked out the math to determine distance to other programs and geographic midpoint and all kinds of crap like that (like I said, spent way too much time, hehe)... And Creighton was the big outlier there. On the other hand I decided their profile in basketball and soccer was just too good to ignore. The other thing I liked about that conference design was that you ended up with good presence in good markets without direct competition between the member schools-- why I didn't jump at putting Loyola Chicago in there as an example. Better for DePaul and conference to have just the one Chicago school.

The key here in my mind is for Marquette, NDU, and DePaul to be the driving forces. Deciding they want a private school league, and deciding that they could compete at the highest levels from a basketball standpoint by forming a league like this one, and so to actually be the drivers out of their current conferences and the catalyst for destruction of the Big East. Such a conference would have a bunch of good markets, be geographically sound (with Creighton being a bit of a problem-- though less than one they currently have in the Big East), should be able to secure good TV deals, and be something like a top 5 or 6 multi-bid basketball conference annually.

Edit - I think the benefits for soccer are similar, but I don't have the knowledge of that sport to intelligently discuss it.

Edit - I had even more fun trying to make up a name for this conference and managed to come up with the most pretentious one possible, hehe-- The Private League.
 
Hypothetical Question---

Hypothetical Question---

IMO Bradley should always keep its options open without any emotional ties to the MVC. If an opportunity for a clearly stronger basketball conference affiliation opened up and it was solid and stable, and included the likes of Dayton, Butler, Xavier, Marquette, as well as possibly Creighton and Drake, BU should join. This may never happen but nothing should prevent BU from conducting very private discussions with other schools about this possibility.
The MVC is OK but in reality, the conference is going nowhere in terms of national recognition, NCAA bids, and the recruiting of really strong players.
 
thefish7 said:
The key here in my mind is for Marquette, NDU, and DePaul to be the driving forces. Deciding they want a private school league, and deciding that they could compete at the highest levels from a basketball standpoint by forming a league like this one, and so to actually be the drivers out of their current conferences and the catalyst for destruction of the Big East. Such a conference would have a bunch of good markets, be geographically sound (with Creighton being a bit of a problem-- though less than one they currently have in the Big East), should be able to secure good TV deals, and be something like a top 5 or 6 multi-bid basketball conference annually.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure MU and DePaul would want to be catalysts. I think they'll always want to remain in the Big East. The key becomes them being "forced out" because the Big East needs to go to 12 for football. As good as the lineup of schools in the new conference would be, they aren't going to willingly leave the Big East for that.
 
Yeah, I agree it's unlikely, but I can dream can't I? :)

My biggest fear in that conference would be that Bradley would be a perennial 6-10 place team, but we can't talk about how high we'd like to go and then be afraid to get there.
 
$$$ Is the deciding factor in all this. What if ESPN and the networks starts to feel that the BCS schools are asking for to much revenue? Then I would not be surprised to see them try to set up an alternative conference in large TV markets to try and even up the competition. There is zero chance of DePaul or Marquette leaving the Big East, unless they are forced out. Without those two there is zero chance of any re-alignment. DePaul brings with it Chicago! Marquette is a quality program with a decent TV market and nationally known.
 
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