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Bob Knight Gets Reprimanded

tornado

tornado

New member
Reprimanded by the Big XII Conference for criticizing the refs.....duhhhhh what's new??
http://www.big12sports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/122407aaa.html

Whattya all think, is Bob Knight at Texas Tech sorta like watching Willie Mays with the Mets?

Isn't it sad to see a HOF coach languishing at .500 with a pretty mediocre team, barely able to recruit because he's holed up in Lubbock, and not even making many headlines with his language and behavior?
Wasn't it painful to watch Willie playing poorly in his geriatrric years, just because he still needed the money and couldn't retire?
Surely Bobby can retire, he's got all the records he needs, and can make a good living doing reality shows on ESPN or "color" commentary like Billy Packer.

Presently with a 5-5 record against D-I, this is the worst record in the Big 12, and the fewest D-I wins and MOST D-I losses by any Big 12 team.
Even Iowa State is 7-5 without the benefit of playing D-II's like Texas Tech.

Here are a few clips of Bobby in the good old days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvRO2GE4x4M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5QvuZOdczg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ukj6Qi5W_k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1ihZ5xJSNw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw7KijRfU-c&NR=1

Bob Knight's conference record since coaching at Texas Tech, 50-46,
and so he might well fall sub.-500 after this season.
 
Over the past 2 seasons, which he had his own recruits, Jim Les is 21-15.

IMO it is not fair to judge him for the years before he had his own players recruited.
 
Da Coach said:
Over the past 2 seasons, which he had his own recruits, Jim Les is 21-15.

IMO it is not fair to judge him for the years before he had his own players recruited.
Click to expand...

I agree to a point, but those teams weren't completely devoid of talent. Not enough so to finish below .500 in league play and be in the play-in round IMO. Without reopening this Pandora's Box regarding the first 3 years of this regime, I am of the mindset of looking at the last 2 seasons as well.
 
Somehow the luster has faded

1626746.jpeg
 
Da Coach said:
Over the past 2 seasons, which he had his own recruits, Jim Les is 21-15.

IMO it is not fair to judge him for the years before he had his own players recruited.
Click to expand...


So its not fair to judge someone before they have 4 years of recruiting? Does this mean we shouldnt judge Jerry Wainwright? Just checking so when the next Depaul sucks post comes up, I know what is fair and what is not.
 
bert notorius said:
2003-04 Bob Knight 23-11 .676
2002-03 Bob Knight 22-13 .629
2001-02 Bob Knight 23-9 .719
2000-01 James Dickey 9-19 .321
Click to expand...


What does this mean? Knight was just living off all that great left over talent. LOL
The funny thing about critizing Knight is his record in terms of wins, graduation rate and lack of NCAA violations speaks for itself. No doubt on of the greatest coaches of all time and IMO that is only enhance by what he has done at Texas Tech.
 
Actually, Wainright is already playing almost totally with his own players, so he falls under the "OK to go ahead and criticize" column.


And......Bert's post quite strongly supports my point of view, that Bob Knight's early success at Texas Tech,
could be argued to strongly correlate with still having the PREVIOUS coach's talent on board.

Only after Bob Knight began to use ESPN "Reality Shows" to select the players on his roster, did
his coaching performance start to take a real dive.

I wonder how much people would be on Jim Les' back if he had those kinds of years that Bert listed for RMK,
and then dropped to what we've had the past season and a half. They'd really be riping JL!
 
Ok well you just let me know when I can expect us to have enough players and talent to finish in the top 3 of the Valley. What year in a coach's tenure is it ok to expect finishing in the top 3?
 
tornado said:
Actually, Wainright is already playing almost totally with his own players, so he falls under the "OK to go ahead and criticize" column.

In 04-05 We had a team of almost entirely Coach Les recruits. We were 6-12 in conference who can we criticize for that? Ok Ill blame coach MO
Click to expand...
 
There are three separate categories....here they are...

1-If a coach inherits 20 win talent or NCAA bid talent from the prior coach, then you can expect that coach will do OK for a few years. But after
4-5 years he should be doing at least equally as well with his own recruits, or his coaching/recruiting abilities may come under suspicion.
Examples.........Chris Lowery, Bruce Weber, Bob Knight at Texas Tech, Ben Jacobson at UNI, Rob Jeter at UW-M, and-- soon-- Kelvin Sampson at IU.

2-If a coach inherits mediocre talent, that cannot even get to .500 in that coach's first year, then he deserves a pass for
3-4 years, and by then should be in the Sweet Sixteen or headed there if he's a great coach.
Examples of those succeeding.....Jim Les, Bill Self at KU, Jim Molinari when he came to BU, and Dana Altman at Creighton.
Examples of those failing....Porter Moser, Ritchie McKay at New Mexico, and Tubby Smith at UK.

3-If a coach inherits either good or lousy talent, and in
2-3 full years still has nothing but lousy talent, and still can't win or has turmoil even with the players he recruited himself, then he is doing a bad job and should be place directly on the HOT SEAT.
Examples...Jerry Wainwright, Mick Cronin at Cincy, Mike Davis at IU, Tommy Amaker at Michigan, and soon-Rick Majerus, & Kelvin Sampson.



Hey....LB....in 04-05, Jim Les had NINE first year players, FOUR second year players, and a couple holdover recruits from the Mo-era...
The fact that they started the season 7-1, and then 11-5, before all those new and young players "hit the wall", was, I think a really good sign of how well BU would complete the follwoing season.
I certainly saw no reason to panic when BU finished the 04-05 season just under .500.
 
tornado said:
There are three separate categories....here they are...

1-If a coach inherits 20 win talent or NCAA bid talent from the prior coach, then you can expect that coach will do OK for a few years. But after
4-5 years he should be doing at least equally as well with his own recruits, or his coaching/recruiting abilities may come under suspicion.
Examples.........Chris Lowery, Bruce Weber, Bob Knight at Texas Tech, Ben Jacobson at UNI, Rob Jeter at UW-M, and-- soon-- Kelvin Sampson at IU.

2-If a coach inherits mediocre talent, that cannot even get to .500 in that coach's first year, then he deserves a pass for
3-4 years, and by then should be in the Sweet Sixteen or headed there if he's a great coach.
Examples of those succeeding.....Jim Les, Bill Self at KU, Jim Molinari when he came to BU, and Dana Altman at Creighton.
Examples of those failing....Porter Moser, Ritchie McKay at New Mexico, and Tubby smith at UK.

3-If a coach inherits either good or lousy talent, and in
2-3 full years stil has nothing but lousy talent, and still can't win or has turmoil even with the players he recruited himself, then he is doing a bad job and should be place dirctly on the HOT SEAT.
Examples...Jerry Wainwright, Mick Cronin at Cincy, Mike Davis at IU, Tommy Amaker at Michigan, and soon-Rick Majerus, & Kelvin Sampson.
Click to expand...

Danny Granger was not medicore talent, he was one of the most talented players in BU history. Danny Granger took a team ( New Mexico) with medicore talent at best and no player as good as Phil Gilbert to the NCAA.
 
DG did not want to play for JL, and that was and still is quite clear.
No way you can even put his talent onto the scale, here.
 
Maybe it's time to ride off into the sunset.....I mean RMK, not Jim Les. The knock on Keady was he no longer could relate to the youthful players coming in. Maybe it's just my experience but kids these days don't respond well to screaming. :rolleyes:

Plus Knight is located in Outter Timbuktu.
 
tornado said:
DG did not want to play for JL, and that was and still is quite clear.
No way you can even put his talent onto the scale, here.
Click to expand...

He looked like he wanted to play when he scored 37 points and had 20 rebounds against Pepperdine. I pretty sure he was trying in that game. Why do you think he didnt want to play? Was Coach Les so much more demanding then Coach Mo? Who would you blame for Danny Granger "not wanting to play"? Do you blame him; a 19 year kid with amazing talent who suddenly has a new coach and a new system? Do you blame Coach Les for not knowing how to handle star talent or how to relate to young kids since he had never done it before? Or do you blame the administration for bringing in a coach with no experience dealing with young men and no experience coaching to fall back on when the going go tough? I cant blame Granger as he seemed to do fine at New Mexico and has had no problems in the NBA. I wont blame Coach Les for interviewing and getting a job he wanted and so I will blame the administration for failing to recognize that we had real NBA talent with Danny Granger and not bringing in a veteran coach to get the most out of it.
 
What veteran coach did you have in mind?
There were none who applied!
And if DG was so talented, need I remind you of the W-L record BU had with DG (under both Mo and JL)
In fact, the W-L wasn't all that hot at New Mexico, they made the post season once and got humiliated.
DG has developed into a decent NBA talent, but you'll have a hard time convincing me anyone would have or could have won at BU either in the interval JL had either with or without him.
I didn't want Jim Molinari to be fired, and felt he could have done well had he been given the chance, but once the call was made to fire Mo and hire JL, there's zero chance for JL to win since DG was not committed to this program.
Recall, he demonstrated his desire to leave BU and stated he actually wanted to leave even before Jim Les was hired, so how can you say some other coach would have done better?
 
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