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Controversy in Big East Tournament

Even if you let the play stand -- there's two other violations....
..hurling the ball into the crowd while there was still a tick on the clock (1.2 seconds when this happened) is the EXACT same violation that the Louisville cheerleader committed...
it should have been a technical foul, Rutgers should have gotten 2 FT and the ball out of bounds with 1.7 remaining.
Plus with time still on the clock, the game is STILL going, Lavin walks 20 feet out of his coaching box, onto the playing floor..
 
tornado said:
hurling the ball into the crowd while there was still a tick on the clock is the EXACT same violation that the Louisville cheerleader committed...
it should have been a technical foul, Rutgers should have gotten 2 FT and the ball out of bounds with 1.7 remaining.
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But a player could do that. It should be a turnover. Rutgers ball.

Problem is the coaches did not see it. If the Rutgers coach had, then maybe you get the refs to review something.
 
tornado said:
clearly the refs were derelict at the end of that game-- they have an obligation to review since the ball clearly went out of bounds with 1.7 seconds left!

They also have the obligation to stay on the court until time expires, but they did NOT -- they were leaving the court with time remaining and thus there was no ref to blow the whistle on the guy's traveling and stepping out of bounds!

Jim Burr, Tim Higgins, Carl Walton -- they need to give their paychecks back and be suspended.
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T I'm NOT sticking up for the officials in anyway shape or form. I agree with your first paragraph 100%. Your second paragraph is also partially factual. They do have an obligation to stay on the court till time expires and they DID. That call was one persons reponsibility and that guy is Jim Burr. It was his sideline and only his responsibilty to call the out of bounds. Any of the three could have called the travel but The travel and him stepping out of bounds were done in unison. So only one violation. Jim was there and where he could have made the call he just chose not to for whatever reason. We'll never know. There is going to be some explaining to do.
 
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BradleyJD said:
But a player could do that. ...
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physically he could do that but it is a violation -- at a minimum a delay of game but the ref likely would call a "T"..
I have seen it called a "T" - even when a player flips the ball after a made basket in a driection other than the player attempting to inbounds...
 
tornado said:
physically he could do that but it is a violation -- at a minimum a delay of game but the ref likely would call a "T"..
I have seen it called a "T" - even when a player flips the ball after a made basket in a driection other than the player attempting to inbounds...
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If you go for delay of game, it is possible.

I agree with Digger. These refs work way too many games. Most are getting too old. They need limits on how much they work and how often. They also need to be "punished" when they get stuff wrong.
 
I think the rule is, if the game is going on and the clock is running, a player can throw the ball halfway to the moon and the clock still runs. We've seen end-of-game scenarios where players throw the ball up in the air to let the clock run out while it's airborne.

But when it's flung into the stands, it's another story.

All that said, this isn't the same as the Louisville situation. That was an off-court person interfering. This was a player messing up.
 
TheAsianSensation said:
I think the rule is, if the game is going on and the clock is running, a player can throw the ball halfway to the moon and the clock still runs. We've seen end-of-game scenarios where players throw the ball up in the air to let the clock run out while it's airborne.

But when it's flung into the stands, it's another story.

All that said, this isn't the same as the Louisville situation. That was an off-court person interfering. This was a player messing up.
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99% of "T's" are whistled on players and coaches...less than 1% on cheerleaders or off-court personnel. If the player commits an act that deserves a T he will get it -- the refs actually have NO obligation to explani not follow any specific rules...it is a purely judgement call.

recall NOBODY but a few nearby heard what JT Durley said that got him T'ed up last Friday but the ref didn't hesitate a second and slapped him for it.


read the actual press release from the Big East Commissioner -- his exact statement was that the player did not get a technical for throwing the ball into the stands "because he thought the game was over". (it was definitely NOT over -- there was over a second remaining)

BUT -- how can that possibly be an excuse or an alibi - as we just saw last week -- the reason the cheerleader got the "T" was for the act of throwing the ball while time was still on the clock
Had the game actually been over -- the cheerleader also would not have gotten a "T" - so mistakenly thinking the game was over CLEARLY cannot be used as a defense yet that's exactly the defense this Commissioner grants the St. John's player!!! Terrible hypocrisy!!
 
Was it Dave Snell or somebody on this board that has constantly said that Tim Higgins is a "great" ref? I've never thought that and it seems like this is the icing on the cake.
 
Tim Higgins HAS NEVER done a Bradley game...and has only done 6 games in the Missouri Valley total in the past 15 years...none involving Bradley
and NONE at all in the MVC since 2008...
tim-higgins.jpg

http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/tim-higgins

We do often get John Higgins..the blond guy...
john-higgins.jpg

http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/john-higgins

I found this comment by someone on an officiating board saying John Higgins is the son of Tim Higgins...
http://forum.officiating.com/394878-post4.html
 
tornado said:
BUT -- how can that possibly be an excuse or an alibi - as we just saw last week -- the reason the cheerleader got the "T" was for the act of throwing the ball while time was still on the clock
Had the game actually been over -- the cheerleader also would not have gotten a "T" - so mistakenly thinking the game was over CLEARLY cannot be used as a defense yet that's exactly the defense this Commissioner grants the St. John's player!!! Terrible hypocrisy!!
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This part I'll defend the Big East on: there is a difference between a player on the court chucking the ball with time still on the clock, and a cheerleader grabbing the ball and chucking it. If you're playing in the game, and the clock is running, you can chuck the ball halfway to the moon and it's legal. If you're not in the game, you can't do something with the ball to potentially interrupt the game.

There's plenty of other missed calls by the refs to get mad about than this potential technical.
 
TheAsianSensation said:
This part I'll defend the Big East on: there is a difference between a player on the court chucking the ball with time still on the clock, and a cheerleader grabbing the ball and chucking it. If you're playing in the game, and the clock is running, you can chuck the ball halfway to the moon and it's legal. If you're not in the game, you can't do something with the ball to potentially interrupt the game.

There's plenty of other missed calls by the refs to get mad about than this potential technical.
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the intent is what's judged when they call a "T" on this ..if the intent of your chucking is part of the game action -- sure it's ok..
but if your intent is clearly just to chuck the ball off the court so nobody else can get to it
..as I said if the cheerleader had waited 0.5 seconds later then chucked it -- he also would NOT have gotten the "T"
 
I don't see how this solves anything or benefits anyone. I'd rather see them apologize for their mistakes, then get it right the next time. But I don't see any reason for them to pull themselves out of further games.
Is it a form of self-punishment, like a suspension? If so, then this should have been the action of the Big East comissioner, not the officials themselves.
 
tornado said:
99% of "T's" are whistled on players and coaches...less than 1% on cheerleaders or off-court personnel. If the player commits an act that deserves a T he will get it -- the refs actually have NO obligation to explani not follow any specific rules...it is a purely judgement call.

recall NOBODY but a few nearby heard what JT Durley said that got him T'ed up last Friday but the ref didn't hesitate a second and slapped him for it.


read the actual press release from the Big East Commissioner -- his exact statement was that the player did not get a technical for throwing the ball into the stands "because he thought the game was over". (it was definitely NOT over -- there was over a second remaining)

BUT -- how can that possibly be an excuse or an alibi - as we just saw last week -- the reason the cheerleader got the "T" was for the act of throwing the ball while time was still on the clock
Had the game actually been over -- the cheerleader also would not have gotten a "T" - so mistakenly thinking the game was over CLEARLY cannot be used as a defense yet that's exactly the defense this Commissioner grants the St. John's player!!! Terrible hypocrisy!!
Click to expand...
T again I agree with your 1st paragraph 100%. I also agree 100% with the Commissioner no T should have been assessed. A violation as soon as it touches someone or something (walkway,person or empty seat) but no T. It is far from terrible hypocrisy. It is the rule that applies to that situation. Now the cheerleader different story. For him to come onto the court and throw the ball in the stands,he would need to be in the book and have a number on to be legal and legally in the game . The officials got what they deserved removed from the rest of the tourney.Clearly a terrible last 4.2 seconds by all three.
 
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