Where is our home-court advantage?

[JMM28]

So then you are saying that not ever being able to practice in the arena that you play in should not have any effect, and that home-court advantage would be exactly the same as a team that always practices in their arena?

Maybe you have never been closely associated with a D1 team. Ask any coach or D1 player if it makes a difference. I guarantee they will say it does.

I attended an institution that had a worse situation than Bradley(SLU). A friend who played(oh man I HAVE been closely associated with a major college program jeez) said that theres a few game curve getting used to the backdrop, but after that it is all the same. 10 foot baskets, 94 foot courts, etc.

So don't go getting all pompous on me.

 

[Carver Arena Guy]

So then you are saying that not ever being able to practice in the arena that you play in should not have any effect, and that home-court advantage would be exactly the same as a team that always practices in their arena?

Maybe you have never been closely associated with a D1 team. Ask any coach or D1 player if it makes a difference. I guarantee they will say it does.

Da Coach, the problem is the evidence doesn't back up your claim. Bradley has been very dominant at home under the same Carver Arena circumstances and hurdles as they see now.

Teams like Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, Creighton, etc. have had very dominant seasons and huge home court advantages. All of these teams play in arenas that are not on campus and arenas they don't have full access too.

Some teams are just dominant at home and some aren't. That doesn't have anything to do with how often they practice at their home arena.

 

[DoubleJayAlum]

Sorry you can't understand that the biggest part of a "home court advantage" is the comfort your players feel playing there.
The majority of MVC teams have their own arenas.
These schools have their own arenas, and practice regularly on their "home court"-
Illinois State
Indiana State
Northern Iowa
Drake
Missouri State
Wichita State
Southern Illinois

These are the schools with Civic or private arenas-
Bradley
Evansville
Creighton

I have no idea how often Creighton or Evansville practice on their arena floors, or how much they are charged for it. But I know it affects a school like Bradley, who practice infrequently at the Civic Center. It's foolish to think this is not a significant factor.

Creighton does not get to practice at the Qwest Center either, FWIW...

 

[Da Coach]

So apparently only opinions like yours that imply that it's all the coach's fault are acceptable to you?

Believe what you want- but if you want to know the facts, ask someone associated with the team.

And,of course you can find selected examples that appear to prove your point, but I suspect you are smart enough to know that your examples prove nothing.

 

[Carver Arena Guy]

So apparently only opinions like yours that imply that it's all the coach's fault are acceptable to you?

Believe what you want- but if you want to know the facts, ask someone associated with the team.

And,of course you can find selected examples that appear to prove your point, but I suspect you are smart enough to know that your examples prove nothing.

Da Coach, who said it was the coaches fault? I never said that.

For some reason Bradley doesn't win at home as well as many teams across America do, or, as well as Bradley has at times in the past. The reason for winning/losing at home has absolutely NOTHING to do with how often they get to practice at Carver Arena. Absolutely none.

If not being able to practice there is a big deal how did BU run off two 20+ game home court winning streaks in the mid 90's? How does Creighton win so much at home? Why does Georgetown win so much at home?

There are certainly reasons teams do/don't win at home. But not being able to practice there isn't one of them.

If people involved with this current Bradley team are telling you the reason they aren't winning at home enough is because they don't get to practice there on a regular basis are selling you a bigtime line of junk. That's an excuse that holds zero weight.

 

[wily coyote]

Winners win, and losers complain about the officiating. Officials don't cost teams games.

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[BUfan14]

Couldn't have said it any better.

I disagree they can't influence games (refs). Tim Donaghy didn't influence games?? A fifth down in a college football game with Colorado didn't influence it in 1990?? When SM was called for an intentional foul last year in UNI that is never called, that didn't influence it?? The 1950 championship game with the uncalled foul or whatever it was wasn't influenced (I didn't see that one obviously)??? and many more examples.

They may not decide a game and you might be able to overcome it, but they do influence games

 

[Da Coach]

Da Coach, who said it was the coaches fault? I never said that.

For some reason Bradley doesn't win at home as well as many teams across America do, or, as well as Bradley has at times in the past. The reason for winning/losing at home has absolutely NOTHING to do with how often they get to practice at Carver Arena. Absolutely none.

If not being able to practice there is a big deal how did BU run off two 20+ game home court winning streaks in the mid 90's? How does Creighton win so much at home? Why does Georgetown win so much at home?

There are certainly reasons teams do/don't win at home. But not being able to practice there isn't one of them.

If people involved with this current Bradley team are telling you the reason they aren't winning at home enough is because they don't get to practice there on a regular basis are selling you a bigtime line of junk. That's an excuse that holds zero weight.

If you are some kind of expert on the subject, let us know your qualifications. As of now, I prefer to believe people who do know.

 

[Disturbed]

I may be making this too simple but, if where you practice has a large impact on your ability to shoot accurately in games, then a visiting team should never have a better shooting percentage than the home team.

 

[BradleyBrave]

If you are some kind of expert on the subject, let us know your qualifications. As of now, I prefer to believe people who do know.

I don't think it takes John Wooden to know that while BU may not practice much in their home arena, they play and practice there much, much, much more often than the opposing teams do. So that argument really doesn't have any weight. If the people running the program are using that as a reason why we stink at home, well as another poster said they're feeding you a big line of BS. I would ask them why other teams who play in Carver much less than us can shoot so well there, and see what kind of response you get.

It's not really an apples-to-apples comparison, but no NBA team practices where it plays, yet NBA teams tend to enjoy home court advantages greater than almost any other sport. Why is that?

 

[tornado]

I disagree they can't influence games (refs). Tim Donaghy didn't influence games?? A fifth down in a college football game with Colorado didn't influence it in 1990?? When SM was called for an intentional foul last year in UNI that is never called, that didn't influence it?? The 1950 championship game with the uncalled foul or whatever it was wasn't influenced (I didn't see that one obviously)??? and many more examples.

They may not decide a game and you might be able to overcome it, but they do influence games

yes, and I really can't say I have seen anyone complaining about the refs....so why do we have 100 people complaining that we shouldn't complain about the refs?

 

[JMM28]

I may be making this too simple but, if where you practice has a large impact on your ability to shoot accurately in games, then a visiting team should never have a better shooting percentage than the home team.

No, that is about right, as long as you factor fluke games. Some people are just willing to let any excuse fly for the team's problems.

Not practicing on your game court often is not ideal, but it is no excuse for not being dominant in the MVC at home.

 

[Carver Arena Guy]

If you are some kind of expert on the subject, let us know your qualifications. As of now, I prefer to believe people who do know.

Sure I'm an expert on the subject. I just look at the record books. It's so easy even a Caveman can do it Again, there is no evidence, in all of college basketball, that how much a team practices at their home court affects how often they win or lose there. If you can show me evidence, and not a justification or an excuse, I will move closer to your side.

What you are hearing are excuses. Not reasons.

You have been very reluctant to answer questions in this discussion. Why is that? If not being able to practice is the reason Bradley doesn't play as well at home as some would hope then how did Bradley play so well there in the mid 90's? How do teams like Creighton, Marquette, Villanova and Georgetown win at home with a high frequency when they have the same home court issues as Bradley?

I can give you a reason why I think it happens---they have good teams. Your ability to win at home usually mirrors how good a team you are. When you are really good, magically, you are great at home. When you are an average team, you are just a bit above that at home.

There is no magic formula.

 

[MacabreMob]

It's not really an apples-to-apples comparison, but no NBA team practices where it plays, yet NBA teams tend to enjoy home court advantages greater than almost any other sport. Why is that?

Must be the officiating. :wink: :lol:

So I offer this.... maybe Bradley gets Homered at Home. :lol:

(I'm only kidding, btw)

 

[ChewaBrave]

It is kind of an interesting question even outside the bounds of bradley basketball. What causes the infamous "Home court advantage?" The only real thing I could offer would be attitude, and confidence. When people are brimming with both confidence in their game, and the ideology that no one beats them at home, it elevates their game. The home field advantage exists outside of basketball as we all know, into games with fewer nuances than basketball. Sure in football, they always talk about weather, and the changes in kicking due to stadium changes, but often the mechanics of the field don't really factor into the actual game time events all that often - yet, we hear about advantage to the home team in football both in ncaa and nfl all the time. hell it even exists in soccer, where there is very little variation, and the majority of it wouldn't impact play at all.

It is an interesting question.

Mayhaps we should have the basketball team be forced to watch constant streams of Underarmor commercials....

 

[Grassman]

I disagree they can't influence games (refs). Tim Donaghy didn't influence games?? A fifth down in a college football game with Colorado didn't influence it in 1990?? When SM was called for an intentional foul last year in UNI that is never called, that didn't influence it?? The 1950 championship game with the uncalled foul or whatever it was wasn't influenced (I didn't see that one obviously)??? and many more examples.

They may not decide a game and you might be able to overcome it, but they do influence games

Exactly, If referees cannot influence games, somebody better tell the mob to stop trying to buy them.
Furthermore, that phantom charging foul on Eastman, was an "influence" to stoping our momentum at a crucial time. We were just starting to gain traction, then the rug was yanked from under us!!

 

[mrcoachdude]

I am sure this has been mentioned somewhere in this thread...but I have been away for a while.....

I wonder how much we practice at Carver......there will be no real home court advantage when we don't practice where you play....visiting teams get shoot arounds the same day just like we do....wonder what our home shooting % is as we get further in the season...

 

[Carver Arena Guy]

I am sure this has been mentioned somewhere in this thread...but I have been away for a while.....

I wonder how much we practice at Carver......there will be no real home court advantage when we don't practice where you play....visiting teams get shoot arounds the same day just like we do....wonder what our home shooting % is as we get further in the season...

Coachdude--read up in the thread. This was the discussion Da Coach and I had. He claims BU doesnt have a home court advantage because of the lack of practice time there.

I noted that no evidence backs this claim up. Plenty of teams (including Bradley during the mid 1990's) enjoyed immense home court advantages and have really incredible home winning percentages despite not being able to practice at the arena they play in.

Creighton, Villanova, Georgetown, and Marquette are four schools that come directly to mind.

Generally if you have a really good team you have a good home court advantage. It has nothing to do with how often you practice there.

 

[Da Coach]

Just not true. Though you can cite a few isolated examples of good teams that have high winning percentages on a home court that they don't practice regularly on, there are many more examples of teams that have far better "home court advantage" on their campus-based home courts.

Here is a list of best home records though 2009- if you correct for the quality of the team (in other words, the best teams will always have good home court records regardless where they play) it is obvious that the overwhelming number of teams ranked highly play on a campus arena where they practice regularly.
http://www.rpiratings.com/homecourtrec.html

Interesting that some of the schools you listed as examples of teams that play in a Civic Arena are ranked surprisingly low on this list-
Georgetown- is ranked only #92!
Villanova is only #68!
Marquette is #57
Creighton (#18 ) is the only one of your examples that is ranked high, but the Qwest Arena has only been open for 6 seasons- which may not be enough time to really compare reliably.

Here is even more proof that you are wrong-
There are a few schools that play some of their games at a Civic Arena, and also some at a campus arena. If this "practice" factor didn't matter, these schools should have similar records at both sites, right?

UConn's record at the Hartford Civic Center is .7532- ranked #77, but their record at their campus arena, Gampel Arena, is far better at .8557 (that would rank 12th if it was listed).

Seton Hall plays some games at the Meadowlands Arena- their home court record there is .6716 (#185). But their record at their campus arena, Walsh Arena, is far better at .7342 (which would rank #99 if also listed)

St. John's home record at Madison Square Garden is a lousy .6100 (which would be #259 on the list), but their record at their campus arena, Carnesecca Arena, is an amazing .8267, and that is the #26 best record among D1 schools!

St. Joseph's record at their campus arena- .7852 (#46) but at the Palestra .6803. (would rank #177).

South Alabama's record in their new Mitchell Center is .7248, while their record at the Birmingham Civic Center is just .6938, but their record at their previous home gym was .9286!

In every case where schools play some home games in a Civic Arena, and some on campus where they practice, every school has a better record on their own campus arena, compared with the Civic Arena where they do not practice regularly.

And here are some other schools that play all their games in a Civic Arena-
University of Southern California plays at the LA Sports Arena, where they have acknowleged for many years that they do not have much of a "home court advantage". Despite having decent teams, their home court record there is only .6599, which ranks only #206 on the list- one of the lowest rankings for a major school.

University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee plays at US Cellular Arena- their record there is a lousy .6412- ranked #230

Long Beach State plays at The Pyramid in downtown Long Beach. their home record there is poor- .6382, only #234 among D1 schools.

And I could continue and list more, but it is obvious that the home court advantage for a team that plays on campus where it practices regularly, is a significant advantage over playing home games in an arena where they do not practice.

 

[Nacho]

The argument MAY hold some small amount of weight, but IMO, these examples listed do not.

You would need to go through every team and see what the RPI of the opponents were when playing at a civic arena vs. an on campus facility.

The reason I say this is because MANY of these schools that play at both places, play their crappy non-conference opponents at the campus location to save the costs of renting the civic arena for a lesser opponent. Any "big game" with an expected large attendance is played at the civic center. Those opponents are more often then not much tougher competition IE- more losses.

The only way to use these as examples is if they played the same competition at both sites, every year, which obviously will never happen.