doug shank's crossover
New member
I was, indeed, making the former point regarding the padding of the win total; which was one of the points in my main response.
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Coach Les
- Thread starter tornado
- Start date
I was, indeed, making the former point regarding the padding of the win total; which was one of the points in my main response.
The Commissioner's Tournament was a quality tournament. It was before the NCAA went to 65 teams and the Braves finished 2nd in the Valley and 19-7 regular season. So it's not fair, IMO, to compare it to the tournaments of the past 2 years. Of course, as usual, those years we had several cupcakes on the schedule.
MacabreMob
New member
Commissioner's Tournament was another tournament besides the NCAA and NIT that a team coulda won more games. That was my point. Nothing more than that.
G
ghunt
Guest
There have effectively been two threads along this line since I was shouted down as a "drive-by hater." (I'm not sure how a sr. member is a"drive-by", but oh well). It seems several folks are willing to give Jim a "few more years." In fact, I was thinking a year or two ago that next season would be a defining year, but that there is something that foks really need to look at even if we have some success. However, before I make that point, I will say I will take any success, with any coach, at any time.
The qualiier is, that even with an outside shot of having the big question mark of unproven Wilkins, we will be upperclassmen laden next year. What if we have just enough sucess (a top three finish, NIT appearance and run, or something along those lines) to placate the fans. Then, however, it is followed up by several seasons comparable to the past two and/or .500 ball?
Not to be a nay-sayer or have folks jump down my throat, but the fan base seriously needs to consider this now. I am thinking nothing is wrong to start formulating some sort of threshold. Again, just to throw-out something, that I think it not unreasonable, but how about if there is no NCAA apearance in 2 to 3 years? I am not a Jim Les hater, I like and respect the guy, but most of the folks with any age and prolonged involvement with the university know that BU has done better--the 80's, the 60's, the '50s, and even the 40's and 30's somewhat. And yes, as I understand, Jim is involved in the community via PND and all that, and Shaheen seems to be wearing the alumni pants right now, but several thousand alumni do tend to have an impact.
Just some thoughts--it's not personal, it is only business.
The qualiier is, that even with an outside shot of having the big question mark of unproven Wilkins, we will be upperclassmen laden next year. What if we have just enough sucess (a top three finish, NIT appearance and run, or something along those lines) to placate the fans. Then, however, it is followed up by several seasons comparable to the past two and/or .500 ball?
Not to be a nay-sayer or have folks jump down my throat, but the fan base seriously needs to consider this now. I am thinking nothing is wrong to start formulating some sort of threshold. Again, just to throw-out something, that I think it not unreasonable, but how about if there is no NCAA apearance in 2 to 3 years? I am not a Jim Les hater, I like and respect the guy, but most of the folks with any age and prolonged involvement with the university know that BU has done better--the 80's, the 60's, the '50s, and even the 40's and 30's somewhat. And yes, as I understand, Jim is involved in the community via PND and all that, and Shaheen seems to be wearing the alumni pants right now, but several thousand alumni do tend to have an impact.
Just some thoughts--it's not personal, it is only business.
BUBraves2006
New member
Unfortunately, people are so divided on this board about the coach that to some, it's all or nothing. If you're critical of the coach, then you must hate the guy and want him to fail (or see him fired). And if you're praising the coach, then you're an apologist and you've got the so-called "rose-colored glasses" on.
What it really comes down to is what the expectation level is on a fan-to-fan basis. If you see the 20-win seasons, postseason experience and improved campus facilities as great steps, then you're probably really happy with coach. If you have a problem with the lack of conference/tournament titles and the "inflated" win totals, etc., then you're probably growing a little wary of the progress.
I guess the point is that this thread could go on forever and it's not going to change the minds of people on either side of the issue. No matter which way you feel, try to realize that the other side wants BU to succeed too and just has a different definition of what that success really means.
What it really comes down to is what the expectation level is on a fan-to-fan basis. If you see the 20-win seasons, postseason experience and improved campus facilities as great steps, then you're probably really happy with coach. If you have a problem with the lack of conference/tournament titles and the "inflated" win totals, etc., then you're probably growing a little wary of the progress.
I guess the point is that this thread could go on forever and it's not going to change the minds of people on either side of the issue. No matter which way you feel, try to realize that the other side wants BU to succeed too and just has a different definition of what that success really means.
G
ghunt
Guest
Nicely said--pretty much puts a bow on it and closes out the thread ;-) I guess, like I have said before, when one such as myself matures watching multiple top 20 teams, multiple record holders, draft-picks, all-whatever players, and a national player of the year, it gets difficult not seeing that success again after several years of waiting. Once you are hooked on success, the withdraw is hard ;-) Things could start clicking later in the season--it's been done before
Go Braves!Braves4Life
New member
SaintLouBrave22
New member
I agree, but to some, we've really had it with the same things still happening and the same goings on in this being Year 8 as there were in Year 1...
Things have not really changed and we're seeing the same inconsistencies as there were since Day 1.
Yes he may have led the team to a Sweet 16, but that was one season and even in that season the team finished below 3rd, which is an area they have never seen with him at the helm. They are 0-2 in Championship games in the tournament and while some continue to give him a free pass for postseason 2006, some of us can not.
The team has more than enough talent to compete, yet we see the same old non boxing out, leave the shooter mentality on defense, and the chucking up 3 after 3, put the center 25 feet from the basket, never move the ball inside on offense day after day after day after day...
The substitution patterns and playing rotations are as bad as Year 1 if not worse...
The question is, how long can you really give someone who apparently has not learned much over an 8 year period, especially when you can chalk up 2006 to being the year that Elder Buescher controlled the defense?
Things have changed and I believe we are getting better as a program but is it going fast enough is the question. I for one am willing to be patient but if this team's character does not change soon I too maybe heading the other way. In character I mean we need a team that shows energy from the tip off to the end with no breaks in between. It just seems there is always a respite during the game and our D just goes to shambles and we have some silly HS like turnovers.
I agree. Let's at least wait until Saturday night after the Las Vegas Invitational is finished to revisit this topic.
As I stated last night!
Alright, it seems based on all of the posts, the question is should Jim Les have been hired. It's not fair to compare Les with past coaches. Those teams (not to mention times) where very different and comparing them to the current team doesn't achieve much. You're right, Jim Les was very inexperienced when he came to Bradley and at times it has shown. I still believe he was the right man to hire at the time and I give the following reasons:
1. Jim Les was looking to coach at Bradley, not using it as a stepping stone to get to a BCS program.
2. Jim Les has throughout his life shown his leadership capabilities and always been extremely capable of extending himself to improve.
3. Jim Les knew the game of basketball pretty well from his years at Bradley and through the NBA.
The question now becomes, should Jim Les be retained at Bradley.
1. I still think Jim Les has recruited better than any of the other Valley coaches during his few years here.
2. He has learned to be a pretty good coach. He still makes some mistakes (don't we all) but when you see some of the things he does during games, etc. I would rate him against any of the Valley coaches. An example would be, how often do the Braves score during a set play after the timeout (mind you, one example but there are other points). I don't care what coach you are, you will get out-coached sometime in your career.
3. He has built a nucleus of talent that should allow to Braves to play into the postseason (NCAA or NIT) for years to come.
Hate him or love him, I still think he's the right man for the job at Bradley. Not saying things won't change, just think right now, there is no one I'd rather have heading that team.
1. Jim Les was looking to coach at Bradley, not using it as a stepping stone to get to a BCS program.
2. Jim Les has throughout his life shown his leadership capabilities and always been extremely capable of extending himself to improve.
3. Jim Les knew the game of basketball pretty well from his years at Bradley and through the NBA.
The question now becomes, should Jim Les be retained at Bradley.
1. I still think Jim Les has recruited better than any of the other Valley coaches during his few years here.
2. He has learned to be a pretty good coach. He still makes some mistakes (don't we all) but when you see some of the things he does during games, etc. I would rate him against any of the Valley coaches. An example would be, how often do the Braves score during a set play after the timeout (mind you, one example but there are other points). I don't care what coach you are, you will get out-coached sometime in your career.
3. He has built a nucleus of talent that should allow to Braves to play into the postseason (NCAA or NIT) for years to come.
Hate him or love him, I still think he's the right man for the job at Bradley. Not saying things won't change, just think right now, there is no one I'd rather have heading that team.