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Creighton Loses/P'Allen Benched

Dana's the best coach in the Valley.

Proven tonight ...

He sent his message to Stinnett and then didn't start him again tonight (though he did play).

Stinnett's response: 6-10 FG and 5-7 3PT for 18 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal and no turnovers in only 19 minutes of action.

Whose team is it? Dana's.
 
BUBraves2006 said:
Dana's the best coach in the Valley.

Proven tonight ...

He sent his message to Stinnett and then didn't start him again tonight (though he did play).

Stinnett's response: 6-10 FG and 5-7 3PT for 18 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal and no turnovers in only 19 minutes of action.

Whose team is it? Dana's.
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I don't agree...

Thats all BS and smoke and mirrors anyways...


If it were really and truly Dana's team, he wouldn't have played at all...


The guy didn't even act like he did anything wrong to merit a benching...


I don't buy that by any means...
 
I gotta agree with BUBraves.

P'Allen is gonna be a headcase for a little while, at least until he matures. Dana did a good job handling him and putting him in his place. IMO Dana is far and above the best coach in the Valley. There's a big gap between him and anyone else...
 
Whether or not he actually matures doesn't really matter. What does is matter is the fact that Altman sent a message and at least so far, it looked like it worked.

This is just another example where another player/team is getting put into a negative light because they aren't Bradley. If Chris Roberts were acting up and Jim Les sat him for a game, the masses would be showering him with praise on how it was great how he "made a stand."

And if anyone thinks Altman isn't the best coach in the Valley, please provide some evidence on who is better. (Not a slight on Bradley, Altman's just proven it for almost 15 years.)
 
Fine, I'll take the bait ...

If your base your assessment completely on postseason victories, then Les is up 2-0.

If you base it upon team winning percentage Altman is ahead 140-59 (.704 percent) to 109-92 (.542 percent) for Les.

If you base it upon MVC tournament championships, Altman has won three, Les zero.

If you base it upon average regular season finish, Altman has averaged 2.83 place (2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 2nd, 4th) - no lower than 4th. Les has averaged 6th (6th, 6th, 8th, 6th, 4th, 6th), no higher than 4th.

Head to head, Altman is 11-2 against Les. Even in years where both teams were good, Altman is still 5-2 against Les.

Do I need to explain any more? I like Jim Les a lot and as usual, a compliment of another coach/team comes out as a perceived rip on Bradley. But actually, I was just stating the fact that Altman is the dean of MVC coaches and everyone should be shooting to be as successful as his teams have been.
 
tornado said:
How many NCAA Tournament wins does Dana have in the time span that Jim Les has been at BU?
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Not a knock on JL but Dana has been the mark of consistency. JL still has time to show his ability to coach and recruit but right now Dana would have to stand above him until we consistently are one of the top 2 teams in the Valley.
 
BUBraves2006 said:
Fine, I'll take the bait ...

If your base your assessment completely on postseason victories, then Les is up 2-0.

If you base it upon team winning percentage Altman is ahead 140-59 (.704 percent) to 109-92 (.542 percent) for Les.

If you base it upon MVC tournament championships, Altman has won three, Les zero.

If you base it upon average regular season finish, Altman has averaged 2.83 place (2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 2nd, 4th) - no lower than 4th. Les has averaged 6th (6th, 6th, 8th, 6th, 4th, 6th), no higher than 4th.

Head to head, Altman is 11-2 against Les. Even in years where both teams were good, Altman is still 5-2 against Les.

Do I need to explain any more? I like Jim Les a lot and as usual, a compliment of another coach/team comes out as a perceived rip on Bradley. But actually, I was just stating the fact that Altman is the dean of MVC coaches and everyone should be shooting to be as successful as his teams have been.
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Hmmm... I've got nothing... There's really nothing else here to comment now...
 
Dana had only two 20-win seasons in his first six at Creighton, JL has 3

Dana was 99-78 in his first 6 years at CU, JL is 105-90 -- not too different...

I see a lot of similarities...
If Dana Altman was held to the same standards in his first 6 years at Creighton as JL has been held to by some at BU,
he'd have been canned when after six season he had only produced ONE that didn't have double digit losses.
In fact, in his first 11 seasons as head coach, he only had ONE that didn't have double digit losses and that one had 9.
So in his first 11 seasons as head coach, Dana had 145 losses, avg. 13.3 losses/yr.
I know a whole lot of people who claim to be Bradley fans who wouldn't tolerate that here.
 
Since we are looking at the first few years of each coach's tenure, let's look at the couple season's prior to them taking over. With Rick Johnson only coaching three seasons at CU prior to Altman let's say we just use that same time period just to give some perspective.

Creighton was 24-59 overall (.289) and 16-38 (.296) in the MVC under Johnson.

In Mo's last three years Bradley was 42-48 (.467) and 27-27 (.500) in the MVC with an NIT appearance.

The programs were hardly in similar circumstances when the respective coaches took over.
 
tornado said:
Dana had only two 20-win seasons in his first six at Creighton, JL has 3

Dana was 99-78 in his first 6 years at CU, JL is 105-90 -- not too different...

I see a lot of similarities...
If Dana Altman was held to the same standards in his first 6 years at Creighton as JL has been held to by some at BU,
he'd have been canned when after six season he had only produced ONE that didn't have double digit losses.
In fact, in his first 11 seasons as head coach, he only had ONE that didn't have double digit losses and that one had 9.
So in his first 11 seasons as head coach, Dana had 145 losses, avg. 13.3 losses/yr.
I know a whole lot of people who claim to be Bradley fans who wouldn't tolerate that here.
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There are no similarities and I can't believe this is still being discussed. Jim's not Dana and BU isn't Creighton.
 
braves12 said:
I think it could be said, that given a choice, a majority of posters would choose Les over Altman.
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I agree with that statement but choosing Les over Dana has to do more with his DNA, loyalty, whatever you want to call it then straight up coaching, records or whatever criteria you want to chose of who is better. JL, IMO is a better coach for BU then Dana could be for BU.
 
braves12 said:
I think it could be said, that given a choice, a majority of posters would choose Les over Altman.
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Ummm. Really? Why would you say that?

I like Les and I'm satisfied with the overall job he has done at BU, but Altman is a better coach...it isn't even disputable...and Creighton has been a far better program under his watch than BU has been with Les...and that is pretty clear cut.

If all things were equal, if money didn't factor into the equation, etc....I don't see how anyone could make a very strong argument that they wouldn't prefer to have Altman for a coach rather than Les. Altman is the best coach in the Valley, and I'd take him at the helm of my program 100 times out of 100 over Les, Lowery, Jankovich, or any other Valley coach you want to put in that blank...
 
braves12 said:
I think it could be said, that given a choice, a majority of posters would choose Les over Altman.
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ER3 said:
Ummm. Really? Why would you say that?

I like Les and I'm satisfied with the overall job he has done at BU, but Altman is a better coach...it isn't even disputable...and Creighton has been a far better program under his watch than BU has been with Les...and that is pretty clear cut.

If all things were equal, if money didn't factor into the equation, etc....I don't see how anyone could make a very strong argument that they wouldn't prefer to have Altman for a coach rather than Les. Altman is the best coach in the Valley, and I'd take him at the helm of my program 100 times out of 100 over Les, Lowery, Jankovich, or any other Valley coach you want to put in that blank...
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I agree with Braves12 :) . Les is a better fit for Bradley than Altman. College basketball is about more than just wins and losses. It's about loyalty, respect, heritage, honesty, family..... Les' brother Tom was a good an honorable Bradley Brave who's gone on to a successful business career. The same could be said for Jim. He's a former player and alumni that has brought honor to The University through his character, honesty, hard work, and committment to Bradley University. I only hope his son chooses to follow "the old man" to The Hilltop, even if he only amounts to a "bench warmer".

This is what makes Bradley such a great university and community; I hope it always stays that way. And I hope J. Les continues as our coach for as long as he chooses. I am confident that he'll continue to put a quality product on the floor for Bradley and the Peoria community. I'm even more confident that he'll continue to bring quality, well-spoken kids who graduate to The Hilltop that we can be proud to call our own.
 
I could not have said it better then Braves4Life....To me it is not always about W or L. I for one take some of the intangibles that B4L mentioned into consideration.
 
Braves4Life said:
I agree with Braves12 :) . Les is a better fit for Bradley than Altman. College basketball is about more than just wins and losses. It's about loyalty, respect, heritage, honesty, family..... Les' brother Tom was a good an honorable Bradley Brave who's gone on to a successful business career. The same could be said for Jim. He's a former player and alumni that has brought honor to The University through his character, honesty, hard work, and committment to Bradley University. I only hope his son chooses to follow "the old man" to The Hilltop, even if he only amounts to a "bench warmer".

This is what makes Bradley such a great university and community; I hope it always stays that way. And I hope J. Les continues as our coach for as long as he chooses. I am confident that he'll continue to put a quality product on the floor for Bradley and the Peoria community. I'm even more confident that he'll continue to bring quality, well-spoken kids who graduate to The Hilltop that we can be proud to call our own.
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Great Job B4L, I totally agree and I think the best is to come for JL the coach. I also say it is time to win a MVC title and get back to the big dance;-)
 
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