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Bobby Hill Ineligible?

Amazingly, Bobby Hill's current coach at Lincoln College has posted on the ISU board, as follows...

"I probably shouldn't do this but I am going to anyway. I am Bobby Hill's current coach at Lincoln College. There
are some things being posted here that I know are not accurate and I would like to clear them up.
1) Bobby Hill was never ineligible at ISU. The academic staff and Coach Jankovich met and felt after conferring that Bobby would
be better served shoring up one specific academic in a situation with smaller class sizes. Coach J met with Bobby and because
Bobby trusts Coach J he agreed to leave ISU. Make no mistake, Bobby loves ISU and misses his teammates. He is working very
hard to rejoin them.
2) The reporter at the St Louis Post Dispatch is doing his best to blow this situation up and sell papers. While the story about
Coach Irons is quite sensational and it apparently could destroy the legacy of the Vashon dynasty, it most likely will not be a
situation that leads to either of the Hill brothers being declared pros. They were 14 to 16 years old when this deal was cut. They
were told where they would live and what school they would go to and they did. That is what kids do.
3) There are kids all over this country living with HS coaches, aunties, friends, and even ritzy prep schools and boarding schools.
Their rent and meals are being provided. As a matter of fact almost every NCAA D1 athlete is recieving everything Bobby and
Johnny Hill allegedly recieved. Are they now pros? Also, please remember, all names are blacked out on the document and the
paper is surmising that it is the Hill brothers. I never knew them in HS so I don't really know where they lived or about any
arrangements.
4) Their father is a man of very limited means. Their mother left when they were very young and their father did his best to feed
and clothe them. He apparently crossed paths with Coach Irons and found a place where his boys would be fed, housed and
clothed with future promises of college opportunities. Not much more any father could ask for when he really didn't now where
money for the next meal was coming from. I know it is hard for some to understand but poverty isn't just in 3rd world countries.
It is on our doorstep and believe me, from what I know, the Hills know first hand. I hope you will keep Bobby and Johnny in your
thoughts.
5) Bobby is doing a great job for us and he can't wait to be a Redbird again!!!!"
http://redbirdfan.com/msgforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8896&p=108812#p108812



Unfortunately, the Lynx coach also seems to leave out some of the well established facts.
The Hills' names are being prominently mentioned since the story centers on the huge monetary value to the gifts (rent, utilities, beds, TV's, etc...) given to a pair of brothers from Alton who were actively recruited (against state assoc. rules) and brought to live in the school district (also against the rules) and had lots of freebies given to them (even more serious violations), and the Hills are the only players who even come close to fitting that description even thought the names were blacked out. Also further confirmation appears to have come from other quotes from Irons and the Hills' dad. Regardless, there is virtually no doubt we are talking about Johnny and Bobby Hill.
AND, he is dead, dead wrong if he is suggesting most high school basketball players get what the Hills got! Hey, I even have two boys who played high school basketball and not only have my kids never even been given nor accepted even a free t-shirt or pair of shoes, none of their teammates ever have, and I can assure you that 99.99% of high school athletes never have.
ONLY big time talents at the top, most competitive schools like Vashon have ever been given this kind of (upwards of $25,000 of benefits) illegal payments.
BUT....even if many kids did get this stuff, that cannot possibly make it right, and serves to only make the severity of it more wrong.
I say the rules are the rules, and professionalism is one of the worse plagues inside of this level of amateur sports, and needs to be identified and removed.

Also, Coach Irons is voluntarily cooperating and revealing this info, and given how damaging it is, I doubt he's making it up, as he and Vashon are the ones who will suffer the most from its revelation. The St. Louis Post Dispatch is not being irresponsible, as they are carefully reporting exactly what they know, and this has been a long (1-2 years) story that has played itself out over the past few years. This is not a witch hunt, and by even claiming that it is suggests Coach McCallum wants to see this stuff simply swept under the rug instead of getting the facts right and properly penalizing those who may have committed serious violations.

Note this story from a year ago, proving that other schools have been trying to get the MHSAA to take these allegations seriously for several years!
http://www.rftstl.com/2007-03-07/ne...e-rival-cries-foul-over-04-championship-game/
 
So it seems like the coach from Lincoln is saying "It's going on all over the country, they're just kids and their dad is poor, so they shouldn't be punished." What a joke, how can that guy be serious.
 
If indeed the post was submitted by BJ McCallum I think it was a poor choice to post what is essentially his opinion on the subject in a very public forum.

He is questioning the intergrity of the reporter with the Post Dispatch, he is infuring that this type of behavior is rampant all over the country and he is trying to justify the behavior by Irons because of the situation that Mr Hill is in as a person. Seems to me it would have been in best if he kept his "opinions" to himself.

He is treading down a very slippery slope.
 
In my opinion, yes, maybe they were steered into the situation at 14-15, but no one can say that after a few years they did not know this was wrong. But instead of step up and say, "This is what happened, this is who did it, what are my options now?" They decided to keep quiet, undoubtedly sign paperwork at some point saying they had never violated any NCAA rules and continue playing. A ban from basketball is a bit much, however a lengthy suspension in my opinion is perfectly justified.
 
I think this happens more than we would want to believe, but not to the extent that it looks like this case is presenting.

Am I suppose to believe that Coach Irons got no return on his investment financially from the coaches that recruited his players?
 
Highly successful high school coaches do have ways of benefiting greatly from their success.
Look at the stuff that has gone on in Chicago where certain successful high school coaches
are hired and paid BIG BUCKS just to do clinics at such schools as Kansas and Iowa.
They also find ways of doing speaking and personal engagements for shoe companies, they also sometimes benefit
from their association with the AAU folks and recruiting gurus (all of whom seems to always have cash to display and spend)
and more often than you might think........
they get paid positions on some colleges' coaching staffs like Kansas, and Illinois State (Paris Parham).
So....if Irons was willing to spend well over $25,000 just on these two kids, then it was so they could help
boost his success and keep his $90,000+ per year job and enable him to get other opportunities for income.

We will probably never know the full extent of the rules-breaking, but if just a fraction of what we already know
is true, then this whole scenario is neck-deep in corruption and violations, and I, for one, think it probably
is way, way even worse, and probably involves other schools and coaches. Remember the Kelvin Sampson
line......"I only did it to remain competitive since everyone else is doing it..."
 
Obsession

Obsession

I read this board and am amazed the obsession you people have with Illinois State. Bobby Hill will not be declared inelgible as much as many of you would like to see that happen. I believe both programs have enough problems with DUI's etc...they need to not worry about the other. I laugh that many are still whining about the cheer at the game in Normal. I was at both games and I heard just as bad of language coming from people in the Carver Arena stands. Quit whining and play ball.
 
Not whining, just reporting the same news that people like the Pantagraph and ESPN report.
My obsession is with Bradley basketball, but I have interest in these other topics as well.
If there's an oddity to all this, it's that many ISU fans post a whole lot more here than any BU fan does on their board, so go figure.
Oh- and the jury is not yet in on the eligibility issue.


And one more thing....do a search for Bradley on the ISU board (which saves posts for only the past 2 months)
and you get a message that the posts containing "Bradley" are so numerous that they cannot be listed.
By playing with the search feature it seems any word that appears more than 500 times is not listed, as even the word "basketball" is listed 442 times since Dec. 30.
http://redbirdfan.com/msgforum/sear...t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

But if then do a search for Illinois State or ISU on Bradleyfans.com, here's what you find, only 141 such posts:
http://www.bradleyfans.com/vb/search.php?searchid=37322
http://www.bradleyfans.com/vb/search.php?searchid=37339

So, in spite of the fact that this board has tremendously MORE activity and posts on all subjects,
in the time interval checked, the ISU folks seem about FOUR-FOLD more obsessed with Bradley and post about Bradley
than the Bradley fans seem with ISU -- just the actual facts, check them out yourself....again.....go figure.........
 
BraveE said:
I read this board and am amazed the obsession you people have with Illinois State. Bobby Hill will not be declared inelgible as much as many of you would like to see that happen. I believe both programs have enough problems with DUI's etc...they need to not worry about the other. I laugh that many are still whining about the cheer at the game in Normal. I was at both games and I heard just as bad of language coming from people in the Carver Arena stands. Quit whining and play ball.
Click to expand...

I have seen both the Illinois State and the Bradley boards, and it would appear there are just as many topics about each other on both boards. It amazes me that you get upset that we, as intelligent fans, are interested in other aspects of basketball... Not just if our team wins or loses.

And a side note, Bradley fans do not nearly care about ISU as much as the fans there hate Bradley. Most of us just enjoy basketball, and the sooner you do that, the sooner you can intelligently contribute to this board.
 
BraveE said:
I read this board and am amazed the obsession you people have with Illinois State. Bobby Hill will not be declared inelgible as much as many of you would like to see that happen. I believe both programs have enough problems with DUI's etc...they need to not worry about the other. I laugh that many are still whining about the cheer at the game in Normal. I was at both games and I heard just as bad of language coming from people in the Carver Arena stands. Quit whining and play ball.
Click to expand...

And you know Bobby Hill will not be declared ineliglible because....? His brother is being held out of games at SEMO pending further investigations. I would bet a dollar that Bobby will be held out of any upcoming Lincoln College games also. But even if he isnt you have no idea whether or not he will ever be ineligible.

People have yes complained about the profane laced chants at the game in Normal but what it appears to me is that the average ISU fan is protesting, whining however you want to put it with their wallet and not showing up for games at ISU, did the drop off from a sellout to 5400 v MSU have a direct reflection off the language? Some of us might have expressed displeasure with the profane on here but the ISU fans are making a clear statement even if it is not written on a website.
 
Here is more.............the actual transcripts of what ex-Vashon HS coach Floyd Irons had to say.

Just click on the links at the bottom of this story -- the statements in these transcripts are pretty dam*ning.
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/stlog/2008/02/floyd_irons_the_mshsaa_intervi.php

and more, going way back to 2006 suggests the MHSAA has been dragging their feet big time bringing this whole story to completion, as if they really don't want to know all the dirty facts.
http://riverfronttimes.com/search/r...=basketball+by+the+book&exactPhrase=1&x=0&y=0
 
houstontxbrave said:
And you know Bobby Hill will not be declared ineliglible because....? His brother is being held out of games at SEMO pending further investigations. I would bet a dollar that Bobby will be held out of any upcoming Lincoln College games also. But even if he isnt you have no idea whether or not he will ever be ineligible.

People have yes complained about the profane laced chants at the game in Normal but what it appears to me is that the average ISU fan is protesting, whining however you want to put it with their wallet and not showing up for games at ISU, did the drop off from a sellout to 5400 v MSU have a direct reflection off the language? Some of us might have expressed displeasure with the profane on here but the ISU fans are making a clear statement even if it is not written on a website.
Click to expand...

Semo is holding the other Johnny out for respect of the investigation. If I don't care if Hill is ineligble, but if he is...then they better crack down on private catholic schools, and private schools.
 
This story suggests that SEMO consulted with the NCAA abut Johnny Hill's eligibility and that's why they are holding him out.
This still may take months to sort it all out.
http://www.semissourian.com/story/1312585.html

Oddly, a quote attributed to ISU head coach Tim Jankovich is very surprising, given the situation.
This quote was posted as a respnse Jankovich made in a radio interview about the Hill Situation:

"I am really bothered about people in our country who are so selfish to hurt innocent people for their own gain....
"Tons of kids all over America are being supported by their high school coaches just so they can survive"
http://redbirdfan.com/msgforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8924

Oh really???
"tons of kids" are being given illegal benefits??
Maybe Jank needs to come clean and tell us what he knows.......
 
Will it never end??
Here is a statement from Lincoln College coach BJ McCallum
"Lincoln College coach B.J. McCullum said that would be an injustice.

“I think there have been any number of kids in this country who’ve needed a place to live — kids on scholarships all over this country at boarding schools — and they’re not pros,” McCullum said."

http://www.sj-r.com/Sports/stories/25563.asp


Wait a minute....is he equating a kid getting a scholarship or scholarship aid because of need to the secretive payments by the head coach to lure ineligible players into doing grossly improper things just to get more talented players and win championships?
What about all those legitimate kids in the Vashon school district who lost spots on the team because Irons brought in the illegal and ineligible players?
What about all the cash paid out to improperly lure the talent away from the kids' own home district?
What about the flagrant breaking of standard anti-recruiting and anti-professionalism rules that are in place in every high school district and even college level?
What about the fact that this particular head coach, Floyd Irons, is also disgraced because of other issues?
http://www.kmov.com/justposted/stories/kmov_localnews_070920_floydirons.f1cdc842.html

Again........there are roughly 30,000 high schools in this nation, and each school has between 10-20 different sports offered and each sport fields 10-60 different athletes.......
You do the math......it is estimated that at least 12 million kids particpate in at least one high school sport each year!
I'll bet at least 11.9 million of those athletes are not paid substantial money by the coach to move into the district illegally and play for that coach!!


Lastly, Coach McCallum, the Hill brothers were not homeless! They already had a home and a place to live in Alton, Illinois.

Instead, the Hills were bribed with cash and material gifts into leaving their "place to live" and coming to a small apartment and living like caged animals at the coach's expense, for one purpose only, and you know what that purpose was...
it was so the coach at Vashon could gain an unfair advantage by recruiting those kids and winning more championships against the kids from the other schools who were playing by the rules, unlike Irons.
Sure the Hills were being used by Irons, but they played a knowing and substantial part in this fraudulent scheme. And they may possibly pay the price (although McCallum did play Bobby Hill in Tuesday's game, SEMO is holding Johnny Hill out of all games).
You don't think greed played a part? Greed on the part of the Hills to get something for free and play on a powerhouse team, and greed on the part of Irons to swindle money from the school district and use it to bribe ineligible players into becomeing part of his crooked scheme. The Hills were willing participants, not poor, hungry, homeless victims simply getting assistance.
 
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