Overall Program Thoughts

[srw]

As many of you know I haven??™t posted much (less than 10 times) in the last two years. It had gotten, for me, to the point where I started getting enjoyment out of people on the message boards being wrong, and lost the fun of being a fan.



So for me to come on here, saying things that are perceived to be negative, will I am sure lead some to not respond constructively, agree or disagree, or factually. Here are, however, my views on the state of the program.



First off, for me, the ???program??? and the ???process??? is more important than single blips on the radar. I am not calling for Jim Les head. But I am calling for a reality check as to what is important in this basketball program.



I see the following issues:

Poor Conference Play
Jim Les is currently 49-55 (.471) in league play, with no top 3 finishes in his tenure, one semi-final win in the MVCT and no championships.
He has, up to this point, had no player recruited as a freshman, that has made first team all conference.
I suspect no Bradley coach, has ever been below .500 in league after 6 years, much less been as secure as JL would have appeared to be, prior to the hiring of the new President.
Questionable Recruiting (Part 1)
Over-reliance on junior college players, transfers, and non-qualifiers
i. It seems to me that Lawrence Wright, Will Franklin, Tony Bennett, and Zach Andrews are the exception, not the norm

1. Of those 4, except for TB, there was a break-in time of ?? to 1 year before they became ???good???

2. 2 of the 4 WF and TB were extremely good basketball leaders, once again the exception, not the norm, from JUCO??™s

ii. A sad fact that of the 5 junior college players on the roster, over the conference season they are averaging a combined

1. 14 MPG

2. The top two (MS,TW) are averaging 25.6 MPG

3. The bottom 3 are averaging 7 MPG

iii. Lack of success with question marks

1. Daniels grade situation made him a question, which turned out to be a huge success (as he has been great as a student athlete, and is a plus for the university, PHS and the City) but caused us to be without a PG when our starter had bad knees (notice the difference with Sam this year, and what another PG might have done to help that year)

2. Marcellus finished extremely well at BU, but was turnover prone, and did not have a record indicative of his talent level

3. Jeremy Fears,Deaaron Williams &Dwight Buyks

a. First two had known issues from the outset, taken in the same class, result is well known

b. Buycks was worth the risk, but not with the situation of the other two, making it a triple whammy, and creating a domino effect of getting the juco??™s who aren??™t playing

Questionable Recruiting (Part 2)
1. Lack of players playing 4 years at Bradley under JL??™s tenure

a. Only Tauai, Crouch, Ruffin, Singh, Adams will have completed 4 years of school under JL after JL completes his 7th year

b. Rembert, Brown, O??™Bryant, Jassey, Paul (Mo recruit, so understandable) all left before completing eligibility

2. Too much going out of standardized recruiting area to get players

a. To my recollection, it has been at least 12 years (Deon Jackson?), since a recruit:

i. Made first team all conference

ii. Stayed at BU for 4 years

b. This is a good indicator that we have to get back home to be successful in recruiting.

i. Sam M, Andrew should be the norm and the expectation, not the exception







Once again, these are just my opinions. I am a believer in a ???program??? not a team. It may skew my judgment from yours, and I understand that.

 

[mrcoachdude]

Nice to hear from you SRW.....hope things are going well...can't say that I disagree with much there.....but there is so much there to think about.....

 

[ph]

I'm not a mod, so my opinion does not much matter, but I really enjoy Bradleyfans because it allows intelligent fans of Bradley basketball to inteligently discuss Bradley basketball.
The discourse can be very enjoyable, even if the topic is "negative"

The "conference standings" arguments are interesting, but to me the more important argument is vs the entire D1 NCAA. The last 2 years have been finishes among the NCAA top 50 (RPI) and should be the expected standard of this program. This years (current) drop from the top 100 is unacceptable. (We were not top 50 before Ruff's injury)

In Bradley's glory days Bradley often fell to 2nd in the MVC due to a #1 in the nation Louisville. and that was OK.

The measurement of success should be at large elgible most years. We have missed that mark.

On the Juco front, I do not mind them. Even if most do not become greats, a couple of juco's on the roster, I think, increases our graduation rate. which helps to balance out a few of the recruiting risks.

 

[MacabreMob]

As many of you know I haven??™t posted much (less than 10 times) in the last two years. It had gotten, for me, to the point where I started getting enjoyment out of people on the message boards being wrong, and lost the fun of being a fan.

srw = Schadenfreude

 

[Beninator]

As many of you know I haven’t posted much (less than 10 times) in the last two years. It had gotten, for me, to the point where I started getting enjoyment out of people on the message boards being wrong, and lost the fun of being a fan.

First off, for me, the “program” and the “process” is more important than single blips on the radar. I am not calling for Jim Les head. But I am calling for a reality check as to what is important in this basketball program.

SRW, I dont know you, but if message boards caused you to lose the fun of being a fan, then I can understand the reasons that you havent posted. I agree with MCD, there is a lot to digest here.

Your program and process paragraph is a great point.imo In a year such as the one we are experiencing, it is very necessary to look back as to what has been done right and wrong and make the necessary internal adjustments to learn from the past for the betterment of the program.

 

[tornado]

This has been a strange year in the Valley.
I don't like to lose, but I am not about to clean house and start again.
We have a fine nucleus of excellent young players, and also have very good seniors, and I expect we will still finish in the top half and hope to see us do well in the tourney.
When BU plays badly, I realize it bothers the players and coach a whole lot more than it bothers me, so what good does it do to pile into them.
Do you think for even one millisecond, that the coaching staff is going to check in on the message boards to see how they should alter their coaching and recruiting strategies?
Nope, this is our team and it won't be changing soon. BU's average attendance is as high as its been in a decade as well, and so if you must air your laundry list of gripes, then go ahead, but it isn't going to turn me against the team.

 

[ph]

Your program and process paragraph is a great point.imo In a year such as the one we are experiencing, it is very necessary to look back as to what has been done right and wrong and make the necessary internal adjustments to learn from the past for the betterment of the program.

Good point about learning from the past. I think the coaching staff did learn enough from some past recruiting issues, and thus was actually in position to land was was pre season ranked as a top 25 recruiting class. I'm sure they will learn more from this year and come back better prepared next year in terms of developing new bigs..

 

[MacabreMob]

This has been a strange year in the Valley.
I don't like to lose, but I am not about to clean house and start again.
We have a fine nucleus of excellent young players, and also have very good seniors, and I expect we will still finish in the top half and hope to see us do well in the tourney.
When BU plays badly, I realize it bothers the players and coach a whole lot more than it bothers me, so what good does it do to pile into them.
Do you think for even one millisecond, that the coaching staff is going to check in on the message boards to see how they should alter their coaching and recruiting strategies?
Nope, this is our team and it won't be changing soon. BU's average attendance is as high as its been in a decade as well, and so if you must air your laundry list of gripes, then go ahead, but it isn't going to turn me against the team.

Well said T.

Discussions like this always make me wonder if the underlying agenda is to somehow get WM as coach at Bradley (or to at least show he was the "better" choice and BU screwed up).

Bottom line... I'm tired of doing UIUC favors! We lost to them last year... that helped them get in. 2 years ago, we beat Kansas/Self for them. And they still want us to take their "cancer" off their hands.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts srw - they've been missed.

 

[Beninator]

This has been a strange year in the Valley.
I don't like to lose, but I am not about to clean house and start again.

We have a fine nucleus of excellent young players, and also have very good seniors, and I expect we will still finish in the top half and hope to see us do well in the tourney.


Do you think for even one millisecond, that the coaching staff is going to check in on the message boards to see how they should alter their coaching and recruiting strategies?

T, I modified your post to illustrate my response.. No intention here to mangle your post.
1. My interpretation of SRW's post is that SRW is not calling for a house cleaning. Just an internal study of what has been successful and what hasnt worked and modify the staff's strategy for the future. This is done in every business and I would think in a lot of successful programs.

2. Agree. We have a fine nucleus of young talent. AT and WE are examples of what we were able to recruit from the Sweet 16 run. But I wonder if we havent overextended our recruiting attempts at the expense of trying to recruit from lets say the Chicago area.

3. It is my hope that coaching staffs do not read message boards. The coach and staff are in a big enough fish bowl. We are just some fans kicking some ideas around in a nice forum.

 

[Murph]

srw = Schadenfreude

Schadenfreude is a German word meaning 'pleasure taken from someone else's misfortune'


Bingo and a big welcome aboard to the president (SRW) of the Jim Molinari fan club.


SRW, you say you haven't posted much in 2 years, lets not forget what happened 2 years ago, all the Jim Les haters crawled back in the woodwork when BU made their sweet 16 run, now things aren't going so well so they're crawling back out.


PS.....You do make some excellent points.

 

[Double D]

SRW - good to hear from you again.

I think you need to view your participation on the board as friendly, intelligent conversation with people who care a lot about BU hoops. Try not to take your participation so seriously.

Share how you feel, enjoy a debate every now and then, but don't feel like you are part of an effort to change the world (or BU hoops) and you will have a lot more fun.

I don't have a problem with your comments about the state of our program. You are entitled to be frustrated with our progress at whatever point you would like.

I know that I view our situation a little differently. I understand completely the data about conference finishes, first team performers etc. And I hope and assume that JL is as concerned about those things as the rest of us.

I just know that JL gave myself (and I know thousands of others) personally a level of enjoyement in 2006-7 that I had not experienced with BU hoops in my lifetime. And I am not one who hasn't been around BU hoops. I've experienced it all in what is nearing 20 years now.

That along with the fact that I feel like he is flexible as a coach, he represents the University well as do his players, and I enjoy the style of play. Oh, and when the fam and I decide to hitch up the wagon and travel to see the Braves on the road (aside from last wed. )there is a good chance that we will win.

There are other factors too but I feel like you have to count in some of these entangables.

Hey, good intelligent conversation right

 

[real fan]

This is what I believe that needs to be done in order for BU to compete yearly for championships:
1) Start by getting at least 3 freshman recruits each season
2) Recruit jr. college players only if they are projected to be impact players.
3) Get back to having an inside game.

 

[Beninator]

SRW - good to hear from you again.


Share how you feel, enjoy a debate every now and then, but don't feel like you are part of an effort to change the world (or BU hoops) and you will have a lot more fun.

I know that I view our situation a little differently. I understand completely the data about conference finishes, first team performers etc. And I hope and assume that JL is as concerned about those things as the rest of us.

I just know that JL gave myself (and I know thousands of others) personally a level of enjoyement in 2006-7 that I had not experienced with BU hoops in my lifetime. And I am not one who hasn't been around BU hoops. I've experienced it all in what is nearing 20 years now.

That along with the fact that I feel like he is flexible as a coach, he represents the University well as do his players, and I enjoy the style of play. Oh, and when the fam and I decide to hitch up the wagon and travel to see the Braves on the road (aside from last wed. )there is a good chance that we will win.


Hey, good intelligent conversation right

Well said Double D.

 

[tornado]

I appreciate srw's points...every one of them.
And I hear them each a lot, especially after a BU loss, and some people even throw in more points, too.

And I don't dispute even one of them, but we are Bradley, always have been and always will be.
We will never land the Tyler Hansbrough's and the Iman Shumpert....BUT... I think we are edging closer to that caliber of talent.
We just won't have the depth to withstand the loss of one or two of our best players, either.
But then, the rest of the Valley are also doing everything they can to upgrade and land better talent, too.
Of course I want to do better.....but before I get too upset, I will remind myself that right at this exact point in time,
we are where we were on Feb. 8, 2006.
We had just lost to Indiana State, we were underproducing, and we were looking like we were going to have another disappointing year.
BUT-- I trust JL to turn this season in the right direction as he did in 2006, and I am anxiously looking for a fine finish in 2008, and the 2008 MVC Tournament Championship.

 

[Dallas Brave]

Despite the frustrations of this particular season, I continue to think the program is trending in the right direction … to the right and up. Some years the improvement curve is steep, some years the curve flattens out or even dips a bit. As discussed in an earlier thread yesterday, I believe that the 2009-10 team will be very competitive. Next year’s team might also surprise us if the big guys get over the development hump. Next year’s team will certainly benefit from lower expectations than what was placed on this year’s team. I also believe that there are a lot of very positive aspects of the Bradley program that do not show up in the W-L record.

For me, philosophically, being a sports fan is a little like being married. There are the good times and the occasional not-so-good times. For good to exist, bad must exist (you just try to minimize the bad time cycle when you can).

And for those of you out there that like to take other peoples' posts and mangle them around and extrapolate them into nonsensical conjecture, please leave this one alone. Post your own thoughts rather than perform your psycho-babble on mine.

 

[squirrel]

Of course I want to do better.....but before I get too upset, I will remind myself that right at this exact point in time,
we are where we were on Feb. 8, 2006.
We had just lost to Indiana State, we were underproducing, and we were looking like we were going to have another disappointing year.
BUT-- I trust JL to turn this season in the right direction as he did in 2006, and I am anxiously looking for a fine finish in 2008, and the 2008 MVC Tournament Championship.

I understand the end result is the ultimate goal. But what are your limits on "underproducing" and what should us fans expect, and more importantly, when can we expect them?

 

[Da Coach]

Thanks for your thoughts, srw.

Just a couple responses from me--

One correction- Daniel Ruffin committed to Bradley in January of his senior year at Peoria Central. He did not have "grade" problems. His grades were good. I have heard he was B-student. And he had taken the ACT test for a 2nd time, as a senior, and got a qualifying score. It was a no-brainer to sign Ruffin to a LOI. It wasn't until the ACT board refused to accept the 2nd test that issues of his eligibility arose. Ruffin took the test 2 more times in the spring and summer and got qualifying, high-enough scores again, but they found out that once the ACT disqualifies any test score, they apparently do not accept scores from future tests, so DR was screwed. He did nothing wrong, but had to sit out his freshman year. I don't see why this is hung around Jim Les' neck as some kind of failure.

The issue about Jim Les not having a player come in as a freshman and make All Conference.-- First, if we have All Conference players, who cares whether they were freshmen, transfers, or jucos? Most fans, including srw, I seem to recall, have said that they don't care where a player comes from (HS, prep, or juco), as long as they are quality players.
Jim Les has had several All MVC players, and we should be congratulating him for recruiting those guys.
Also, since it is very uncommon for underclassmen to be named All MVC, the fact that Jim Les hasn't had a 1st team All MVC player has more to do with the fact that he has only been here 5 years, and he didn't have a chance to recruit for his 1st year. So he has really only had a total of 1 (one) senior class (last year's) with players he recruited as freshmen! That is simply too small a sample to be making any sort of judgement here!
Daniel Ruffin was 2nd team All-MVC last year (which was his 4th year, and might have been his senior season if he hadn't been ineligible), and likely will be 1st team this year. Patrick O'Bryant would likely have been 1st team All MVC last year and this year if he had stayed. Jeremy Crouch should make All-MVC this year, and unfortunately, Sam Singh was seriously injured. I just thought those players (and many more) deserved mention for their accomplishments at Bradley. And the future looks good with freshmen Sam Maniscalco, Anthony Thompson, and Will Egolf, and soph Andrew Warren.

I agree with the part about too many jucos this year. I think even Jim Les admits that we had to go stronger with juco kids this year than we wanted because of the failures with DeAaron Williams, Jeremy Fears, and Dwight Buycks. But I disagree with your premise that we should not have taken a chance on Buycks because of the risks inherent with the other 2. I think you always try to land quality players, and you don't back off because of what might happen with another player.
But those were the kind of difference makers that all of us want Jim Les to try to land (and anyone who thinks it's easy to recruit those players to BU is naive). I can't fault him for trying to get them. Other than Anthony Parker (and he developed into a difference-maker, he wasn't that kind of player out of high school), how many of those type of players has Bradley had in the last 20 years?
IMO, Jim Les should continue to pursue those kinds of players, and I think he has the support of 98% of fans on that.

Thanks again for your thoughts!

 

[MacabreMob]

.....right at this exact point in time,
we are where we were on Feb. 8, 2006.
We had just lost to Indiana State, we were underproducing, and we were looking like we were going to have another disappointing year....

I understand what you mean, but....

Feb 9th 2006, Bradley's RPI was 66th.

Feb 15th 2008, Bradley's RPI is 109th.

2006 - Bradley went on to win their last 5 regular season games and then 2-1 in the MVCT finishing with an RPI of 33.

2008 - Bradley could win their last 5 regular season games and then go 2-1 in the MVCT and I doubt we'd finish in the Top40 of the RPI.

We got a long way to go.

 

[srw]

Thanks for your thoughts, srw.

Just a couple responses from me--

One correction- Daniel Ruffin committed to Bradley in January of his senior year at Peoria Central. He did not have "grade" problems. His grades were good. I have heard he was B-student. And he had taken the ACT test for a 2nd time, as a senior, and got a qualifying score. It was a no-brainer to sign Ruffin to a LOI. It wasn't until the ACT board refused to accept the 2nd test that issues of his eligibility arose. Ruffin took the test 2 more times in the spring and summer and got qualifying, high-enough scores again, but they found out that once the ACT disqualifies any test score, they apparently do not accept scores from future tests, so DR was screwed. He did nothing wrong, but had to sit out his freshman year. I don't see why this is hung around Jim Les' neck as some kind of failure.

The issue about Jim Les not having a player come in as a freshman and make All Conference.-- First, if we have All Conference players, who cares whether they were freshmen, transfers, or jucos? Most fans, including srw, I seem to recall, have said that they don't care where a player comes from (HS, prep, or juco), as long as they are quality players.
Jim Les has had several All MVC players, and we should be congratulating him for recruiting those guys.
Also, since it is very uncommon for underclassmen to be named All MVC, the fact that Jim Les hasn't had a 1st team All MVC player has more to do with the fact that he has only been here 5 years, and he didn't have a chance to recruit for his 1st year. So he has really only had a total of 1 (one) senior class (last year's) with players he recruited as freshmen! That is simply too small a sample to be making any sort of judgement here!
Daniel Ruffin was 2nd team All-MVC last year (which was his 4th year, and might have been his senior season if he hadn't been ineligible), and likely will be 1st team this year. Patrick O'Bryant would likely have been 1st team All MVC last year and this year if he had stayed. Jeremy Crouch should make All-MVC this year, and unfortunately, Sam Singh was seriously injured. I just thought those players (and many more) deserved mention for their accomplishments at Bradley. And the future looks good with freshmen Sam Maniscalco, Anthony Thompson, and Will Egolf, and soph Andrew Warren.

I agree with the part about too many jucos this year. I think even Jim Les admits that we had to go stronger with juco kids this year than we wanted because of the failures with DeAaron Williams, Jeremy Fears, and Dwight Buycks. But I disagree with your premise that we should not have taken a chance on Buycks because of the risks inherent with the other 2. I think you always try to land quality players, and you don't back off because of what might happen with another player.
But those were the kind of difference makers that all of us want Jim Les to try to land (and anyone who thinks it's easy to recruit those players to BU is naive). I can't fault him for trying to get them. Other than Anthony Parker (and he developed into a difference-maker, he wasn't that kind of player out of high school), how many of those type of players has Bradley had in the last 20 years?
IMO, Jim Les should continue to pursue those kinds of players, and I think he has the support of 98% of fans on that.

Thanks again for your thoughts!

To amend. Daniels grades were not the issue, but there was a lot of discussion at Peoria High on overall NCAA qualification. You are correct there was no grade issue that I ever heard about.

I have amended my thoughts on "where they come from" I agree that I have said in the past I didn't care. But as I have been more critical of the data, I think we need to be looking to keep players on campus for 4 years. I believe that I was wrong in not looking at the area as relevant. Because it seems the further from Peoria they are, the less likely they will be to stay here for 4 years


On Buycks. I am saying take a chance on 1 or 2 of the group...Not all three at the same time.

I believe it to be inherant to look at the program as a whole (to give credit, sort of like the scholarship grid on this board)

 

[it's boogie time]

I think the program is heading in the right direction because of some of the off the court activities. If a new practice facility, rec center and arena wasn't in the mix, I'd have a lot of doubts about the program. But I'm happy with where the program is heading.

I think the loss of two assistant coaches didn't help anything this year. I think it will be nice to have some continuity with the coaching staff in the offseason.