Golf anyone?

[tornado]

I am no golf lover but I read with interest the past few articles in the Peoria media about the local golf courses....
Today a column seems to be whining a bit about the cost of playing golf at any of the Peoria Park District golf courses - or at least seems to be criticizing costs as well as administration.

http://www.pjstar.com/article/20140923/NEWS/140929666/10964/SPORTS

Wonder if anyone else who plays golf in Peoria has any comments...I'd love to hear....
a couple of my kids used to play in high school but I haven't played in 3-4 years and probably only a handful of times in the past 20...

Here are a few isolated comments from today's column...

-"Peoria Park District's first cut should be greens fee" - yet he goes on to compare the fees in Peoria ($37-$44) with other courses...
Metamora Fields $45, Coyote Creek $43, Lick Creek $30-35, etc... selectively choosing to compare only to courses well outside the city - even though most are right at or are MORE than the city courses...
..but conveniently leaves out a lot of useful info - like green fees at Mt. Hawley and Weaver Ridge (the other Peoria courses) are way, way higher - in the $60-80 range, obviously making the Peoria Park District courses look like an incredible bargain!

-he calls some courses "better" but that's very subjective - since some of those courses are very new, still have a few kinks to work out, have extremely few trees - and are well outside of the population center of Central IL - so maybe they have to discount to get the business. As noted, the others inside the city are far MORE expensive.

-very little is made of the fact that whenever ANY governmental body is involved - there's always gonna be more wasteful bureaucratic costs.
There's hardly a business in existence that isn't run better & more efficiently when done privately as compared to letting some government body run it.
Thus - the Park District probably needs to charge more -

-but the column's main premise, that the Park District courses should cut greens fees....I don't have an argument - but here's a thought...
I'd love to see every single level of government cut fees, cut taxes, cut spending, cut waste, cut personnel....
In a related article he does tell of some of this bureaucratic bumbling and stupidity - LINK
Remember - if you spend even a penny in Peoria you are probably helping support the budget of the Peoria Park District, so you are SUBSIDIZING those who go play golf - so unlike all those other courses named above, you're effectively paying part of their greens fees for them -

-so if there's a villain in this whole story I think it is the bureacrats and government people who tax the public then are wasteful and irresponsible with those funds.
The Peoria Park District gets WAY OVER $45 million for their operating budget LINK LINK - they DO NOT have a revenue problem or a money shortfall - they have a spending, irresponsibility, and a wasteful problem.
So the real burden is on those who live & vote in Peoria to boot them all out and fix the problem from the inside out.

[bigjimmy]

I am a golf lover, despite how bad I'm playing, and work at Illini Golf so we have certainly heard the talk in regards to the Park Board deciding to possible close one of the golf course. There is no questions that golf interest is down, not just here but nationwide. Golf stores as well as golf courses have been closing all over the country. The interest in playing Park District courses has certainly fallen off since the heydays of around the turn of this century. I can remember when I worked at Newman during that time that we'd have people on the weekends lining up outside the clubhouse on weekends starting around 4:30 in the morning to reserve their tee time for the following weekend and the times would be taken almost until noon. Now I'm told people can come out at 9 AM and get right out. Sad. But that's not just because of waining interest in playing golf. It's a combination of more choices, (Weaver Ridge, Coyote Creek and Metamora Fields), more affordable choices, (Pekin Park District, Quail Meadows and many others within an hours drive), but it's mostly some bad decision within the Park District that has caused a lot of its own problems. Newman has long been considered along with Lick Creek as the best course in this area but the last 10 years the condition of Newman has sadly been lacking and when you can play others courses that are in much better shape for about the same price you're going to play that other course. Naturally the Park Board sites as one of the factors to close Newman is because of the maintanence issues that they caused and could have prevented it if they hadn't spent the money to improve Kellogg, which just didn't need it. Now according to Tim Cassidy, at tonight's meeting Donovan is also being considered to be closed, which might be the better choice because of the Northmoor Observatory at Donovan as well as the new pedestrian bridge that's right by the golf course over Knoxville. Still wouldn't like either course closing but it doesn't look good. But I think what I was told back when I first started to work at Newman in May of 1993 holds true today about how the Park District has treated their golf courses. I was told by one of the big wigs, "Big Jimmy we're not in the business to make money. We're hear to just provide a service."

[tornado]

....because of waining interest in playing golf. It's a combination of more choices, ....

but isn't this EXACTLY what people argued many, many times in the 90's and 2000's when Coyote Creek & Metamora golf courses were being planned & built...

that the area was already saturated, that with the next generation being more video-game oriented, with costs going up, with so many other options for people's time & money -
this was all predicted for many years -- so why is anyone now surprised?

But the market will force one or two courses to close - and the only thing keeping it from happening are grants & the government using the taxpayers' $$ to shore up the courses that are failing or losing money.

[bigjimmy]

The BU Men's and Women's golf teams were in action the past few days. The women played in the Johnie Imes Invitational in Columbia, Missouri and finished 9th out of 15th, shooting a team score of 901. Junior Danielle Lemek once again led the Braves as she shot an even par 216 and tied for 14th. Danielle also recorded her 15th straight round in the 70's, one off her personal record. The ladies next play in the Cincinnati Fall Invitational in Maineville, Ohio on October 6th & 7th.
The men played in the Badger Invitational in Madison, Wisconsin and struggled to their worst finish of the season as they finished 13th out of 13 teams in shooting a 925, 54 shots out of first. Senior Danny Masrin shot 222 and tied for 16th. The men next play in the Butler Fall Invitational in Indianapolis on October 6th & 7th. Illini Golf was well represented by current employees and Notre Dame grad Jordan Fahel, who shot 224 for ISU Red and Dunlap grad Matt Lavery, who shot 237 for Drake.

[tornado]

rumbles of even more financial problems golf-wise....
Coyote Creek up for sale $1.75 mil...
Sunday's PJS will have the story and cover the "state of golf in Peoria"

[bigjimmy]

Coyote Creek has been up for sale for quite a while and has always struggled to survive since it first opened. The latest I heard was that the bank that the owners of Coyote owe money too could be calling in their loan and when the owners default on it then the bank will take it over and then try to sell it as quickly as possible. Coyote has had its share of issues over the years, high greens fees, not enough money to spend on the upkeep of the course along with it just not being maintained very well. It might just be the most challenging course in the area and I hope whoever buys it can afford to take care of it. Another course on the sale block is Weaver Ridge as it looks like Jerry Weaver has decided to get out of the golf business. The last price tag I heard for the course and the clubhouse is around 3 million.

[tornado]

Here's the article promised

http://www.pjstar.com/article/20141004/BUSINESS/141009715/11130/SPORTS

"The Coyote Creek course in Bartonville...
Earlier this year ...went up for sale with an asking price of $1.75 million."

another column about PPD closure

http://www.pjstar.com/article/20141004/SPORTS/141009601/0/SEARCH

and yet another piece on the editorial page - they want Donovan closed

http://www.pjstar.com/article/20141004/OPINION/141009622/0/SEARCH

bigjimmy - you seem pretty smart on golf issues.....answer me one question....

I went golfing a few times with one of my sons who really loved it and might have been someone who would be a future customer...
We were playing Donovan and in the middle of a long fairway on the backstretch, I walked clear across the fairway and my son brought the cart up..
then almost like a bat-out-of-he** one of the course guys comes flying up to us in a golf cart that seemed as though it could do 50 mph...
The guy musta had little to do and was out stalking golfers to find some violation to pick on...
He jumped all down our throats about me letting a kid drive the cart and the guy was rude & insulting and convinced me to never go back to Donovan again.
Then I explained that my son was 18 years old, he let up cuz he thought my son was younger, but the damage was already done - we've never been back to any public course...

My question - would it be such a horrible thing if they let a 16-year-old drive a cart?
If their rule is only 18, then they are probably shooting themselves in the foot.

[Chico]

A few years ago our league at Donovan had a long rain delay and most golfers left. We had only 5 guys who were going to play so we just decided to play a fivesome. On the 3rd green the head pro parked his car and told us we couldn't do that even though we were the only golfers on the course. We were upset, but didn't quit playing on the courses because of one guy. He was the exception on the courses is Peoria.

[bigjimmy]

Here's the article promised

http://www.pjstar.com/article/20141004/BUSINESS/141009715/11130/SPORTS

"The Coyote Creek course in Bartonville...
Earlier this year ...went up for sale with an asking price of $1.75 million."

another column about PPD closure

http://www.pjstar.com/article/20141004/SPORTS/141009601/0/SEARCH

and yet another piece on the editorial page - they want Donovan closed

http://www.pjstar.com/article/20141004/OPINION/141009622/0/SEARCH

bigjimmy - you seem pretty smart on golf issues.....answer me one question....

I went golfing a few times with one of my sons who really loved it and might have been someone who would be a future customer...
We were playing Donovan and in the middle of a long fairway on the backstretch, I walked clear across the fairway and my son brought the cart up..
then almost like a bat-out-of-he** one of the course guys comes flying up to us in a golf cart that seemed as though it could do 50 mph...
The guy musta had little to do and was out stalking golfers to find some violation to pick on...
He jumped all down our throats about me letting a kid drive the cart and the guy was rude & insulting and convinced me to never go back to Donovan again.
Then I explained that my son was 18 years old, he let up cuz he thought my son was younger, but the damage was already done - we've never been back to any public course...

My question - would it be such a horrible thing if they let a 16-year-old drive a cart?
If their rule is only 18, then they are probably shooting themselves in the foot.

T the rule has always been you have to have a driver's license in order to operate a cart. It's possible it might have been a grounds crew worker who came over, the Donovan crew has been known over the years to be more zealous about course rules and where you can and can't drive. With the course marshalls what you see is what you get. Most are pretty good but you do have a few who are Marshall Dillion.

[tornado]

.. It's possible it might have been a grounds crew worker ...

no, it was the same guy we paid at the main counter when we checked in and paid greens fees...
he musta had someone else watch the counter while he raced out on the course to scold some patrons...and he insisted drivers had to be 18 - and I think maybe I recalled that was the posted rule but it's been a couple years now -
..anyway - it left a lasting impression that they pegged some patrons as undesirables and made it known...

With all the times I've seen people leave enormous unrepaired divots, tear out tree branches just to get a better shot, and drive carts across greens - I guess I was just a little surprised that the big issue for this guy was to nab a 17 year old driving a cart.

[bigjimmy]

A few years ago our league at Donovan had a long rain delay and most golfers left. We had only 5 guys who were going to play so we just decided to play a fivesome. On the 3rd green the head pro parked his car and told us we couldn't do that even though we were the only golfers on the course. We were upset, but didn't quit playing on the courses because of one guy. He was the exception on the courses is Peoria.

Chico the no fivesome rule in the Park District has always been selectively enforced for as long as I can remember. And it's not mattered if the courses are busy or not. But in that situation common sense should have prevailed but as I've always told people common sense and the Park District don't always go hand in hand.

[bigjimmy]

no, it was the same guy we paid at the main counter when we checked in and paid greens fees...
he musta had someone else watch the counter while he raced out on the course to scold some patrons...and he insisted drivers had to be 18 - and I think maybe I recalled that was the posted rule but it's been a couple years now -
..anyway - it left a lasting impression that they pegged some patrons as undesirables and made it known...

With all the times I've seen people leave enormous unrepaired divots, tear out tree branches just to get a better shot, and drive carts across greens - I guess I was just a little surprised that the big issue for this guy was to nab a 17 year old driving a cart.

If it's the guy I think it was I'm shocked he didn't bring out the park police to escort you off the course. Donovan has had some beauties working the counter over the years.

[Da Coach]

The vote from the Peoria Park Board is in, and they have voted to close Donovan Golf Course. The vote was not close, 6 to 1.

[Chico]

The vote from the Peoria Park Board is in, and they have voted to close Donovan Golf Course. The vote was not close, 6 to 1.

It's a shame they have to close a course but I drive by Donovan, one of my favorite courses except for a couple holes, a couple times a week. I look in and the parking lot is practically empty as are the fairways. Many good memories from my younger and healthier days.

[Da Coach]

It's a shame they have to close a course but I drive by Donovan, one of my favorite courses except for a couple holes, a couple times a week. I look in and the parking lot is practically empty as are the fairways. Many good memories from my younger and healthier days.

Why wasn't Madison seriously considered? The decision came down to Newman vs. Donovan. I have driven past Madison many times at times when it should be busy, and there are almost never any cars in the lot. Beside being the worst of the Peoria public courses (other than for the folks who simply like to walk it because it is so flat), and it appears to me to be the least used. That seems like a lot of money to maintain for the few who golf there.