OT - taxes

[tornado]

anyone see the headline story - front page of the Peoria Journal Star today??

the major point of the story is that Peoria's District 150 school system wants to hike tax rates to get more money -- they think RIGHT NOW is a great time -- as they explain it - because...
currently home values are DOWN so that homes are worth less and so if they hike the taxes the homeowner might not notice it...
..and of course the only problem with their astoundingly ignorant leaders & failing system is that they just need a little more money - right???

Say what?? .. they think if people are struggling - their home equity has plummeted - plus District 150 is so horribly bad that almost everyone living in Peoria would love to GET OUT and go somewhere else - which even further reduces the value of ANY Peoria home because it is a BAD selling point to be in such a bad school district..
and they want hike taxes and think it's a good time to do that!!
UNBELIEVABLE!!!

They have lawsuits pending and that they've already paid to the past District administrators who destroyed the system and teachers who have been unfairly canned or demoted...they're going broke - so let's just hit the poor old taxpayer harder!

[SFP]

T - I'm all for paying a bit more for schools as long as they can prove that the money they have now is being spent on improving the kids educational experience and not on a bloated administrative regime. I'm sure if they allowed an independent audit to take place you would see a high percent of the school funds going to the administrative expenses and not to the retention of good teachers and update of facilities. Most school systems are broken and until teachers are ready to force their unions to do the right things most tax paying citizens are reluctant to pay out more. We need good schools and good teachers for the future of this country.

[Chico]

T - I'm all for paying a bit more for schools as long as they can prove that the money they have now is being spent on improving the kids educational experience and not on a bloated administrative regime. I'm sure if they allowed an independent audit to take place you would see a high percent of the school funds going to the administrative expenses and not to the retention of good teachers and update of facilities. Most school systems are broken and until teachers are ready to force their unions to do the right things most tax paying citizens are reluctant to pay out more. We need good schools and good teachers for the future of this country.

I'm not a union supporter in most cases, but usually agree with the teachers union in most things, but not all. They have a tough enough job as it is without all the c--- they have to put up with and then have most of the problems in the schools put on them. Couldn't think of anything worse right now than trying to teach in District 150.

[SFP]

I'm not a union supporter in most cases, but usually agree with the teachers union in most things, but not all. They have a tough enough job as it is without all the c--- they have to put up with and then have most of the problems in the schools put on them. Couldn't think of anything worse right now than trying to teach in District 150.

I'm all for good teachers but sometimes the head of their unions just do not have their best interest at heart. I have friends who are teachers and they'd tell you the same thing. There's a reason why a teacher rather take less money and work at a private school then work in the public school system. Nationally, public school reform is needed but will not happen any time soon. Why? Because the head of those unions are making too much money and love the status quo while the teachers who are in the grind get fired for lack of funds in their system. In SF the superintendent makes over $250 K plus perks and a nice pension fund without having to meet any objectives.

[Beninator]

So I wonder if you are reading the same article I read. --I will fully admit that I don't follow District 150 as it does not pertain to my area. However, I agree that the teachers deserve a lot more for teaching there.

Link to the PJS article mentioned in this thread.

http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1671794898/District-150-discusses-tax-levy

"The levy request also is about $1 million less for 2012 than for 2011."


"The owner of a home valued at $120,000 in 2011 could see a drop of about $30 in taxes for the second year in a row, mostly because the property's value has declined over that period."

"Additionally, the district plans to offset the higher tax rate with a $1.5 million abatement in debt service taxes. Kinney said the estimated tax rate for 2012, $4.99 per $100 assessed valuation, would have been higher without the abatement."

"Auditors Clifton, Larson, Allen praised the district for positive financial statements for two consecutive years. Kinney said he was doubtful the district would go three consecutive years."

I happen to know the treasurer very well and can tell you that he is a very smart person.

[Chico]

I'm all for good teachers but sometimes the head of their unions just do not have their best interest at heart. I have friends who are teachers and they'd tell you the same thing. There's a reason why a teacher rather take less money and work at a private school then work in the public school system. Nationally, public school reform is needed but will not happen any time soon. Why? Because the head of those unions are making too much money and love the status quo while the teachers who are in the grind get fired for lack of funds in their system. In SF the superintendent makes over $250 K plus perks and a nice pension fund without having to meet any objectives.

They would rather not work in a place like 150. The majority of problems in public schools are the students themselves. Try to discipline them.

[SFP]

They would rather not work in a place like 150. The majority of problems in public schools are the students themselves. Try to discipline them.

They are children so I'll put the burden on the parents! and then society. We also need a system that will pull kids out of high school (which is a system to prepare for higher ed.) and put them in a trade school when the alternative would serve them and society better. Germany for one has this system down correctly.

[tornado]

Ben -- maybe they tax people in Peoria differently than the way I get taxed but I really doubt it - but I know of NOWHERE that they re-set the appraised value of your home automatically...
EVERY SINGLE YEAR!

It gets done somewhat infrequently and not everyone gets it all at once...

BUT the single KEY phrase that ios there - maybe you missed it...
"...even though the tax rate probably will go up"

"probably"???? Whattya wanna bet it IS going up - otherwise what they heck
would be the purpose of adding a "tax levy"???



I highly doubt that anyone's gonna see less taxes... - even if my home lost $50K in value during the housing slump - MY assessed valuation did NOT change from last year and the tax rates sure didn't...
thus I have NEVER seen a lower tax bill in any year when compared to the year before...

If, as a taxpayer, I went to the local authorities and requested a revised assessment of my home value - it's a difficult, and lengthy process, you have to know all the right steps, probably pay a lawyer - and I know for a fact that a few people across the street did it when they disagreed with their home assessment - and most get DENIED!
Of course - why would the local taxing body voluntarily and willingly let people ask and then pay LESS taxes!!
NOTICE the guy quoted said a property owner "COULD SEE" a drop in taxes - he didn't say "will see"...so I'll bet not many people actually ever see a drop -- lemme know if your taxes go down...

BTW -- just for good measure I looked up to see if there's any activity where I live in tax change..

NOPE they officially announced they are NOT re-doing anyone's assessments but they ARE levying a 1.0000 multiplier on my property taxes - same as the last several years - but since rates keep going up and up and up & new taxes are added (such as a new one to rebuild the library last year) - then clearly my taxes have NEVER and WILL NEVER go down!

http://www.eastpeoriatimescourier.com/article/20120910/NEWS/120919986/-1/%3C!%5BCDATA%5B

Here's what generally happens - the property taxes are hiked quietly every year - LINK

[Beninator]

Ben -- maybe they tax people in Peoria differently than the way I get taxed but I really doubt it - but I know of NOWHERE that they re-set the appraised value of your home automatically...
EVERY SINGLE YEAR!

It gets done somewhat infrequently and not everyone gets it all at once...

BUT the single KEY phrase that ios there - maybe you missed it...
"...even though the tax rate probably will go up"

"probably"???? Whattya wanna bet it IS going up - otherwise what they heck
would be the purpose of adding a "tax levy"???



I highly doubt that anyone's gonna see less taxes... - even if my home lost $50K in value during the housing slump - MY assessed valuation did NOT change from last year and the tax rates sure didn't...
thus I have NEVER seen a lower tax bill in any year when compared to the year before...

If, as a taxpayer, I went to the local authorities and requested a revised assessment of my home value - it's a difficult, and lengthy process, you have to know all the right steps, probably pay a lawyer - and I know for a fact that a few people across the street did it when they disagreed with their home assessment - and most get DENIED!
Of course - why would the local taxing body voluntarily and willingly let people ask and then pay LESS taxes!!
NOTICE the guy quoted said a property owner "COULD SEE" a drop in taxes - he didn't say "will see"...so I'll bet not many people actually ever see a drop -- lemme know if your taxes go down...

BTW -- just for good measure I looked up to see if there's any activity where I live in tax change..

NOPE they officially announced they are NOT re-doing anyone's assessments but they ARE levying a 1.0000 multiplier on my property taxes - same as the last several years - but since rates keep going up and up and up & new taxes are added (such as a new one to rebuild the library last year) - then clearly my taxes have NEVER and WILL NEVER go down!

http://www.eastpeoriatimescourier.com/article/20120910/NEWS/120919986/-1/%3C!%5BCDATA%5B

Here's what generally happens - the property taxes are hiked quietly every year - LINK

Looks like the lowered property assessments are coming in with municipalities around the area.

East Peoria is trying to figure out a way to deal with lower property assessments.

http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1978608248/East-Peoria-considering-ways-to-handle-lowered-property-assessment

and it appears to be somewhat of a national trend.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/story/2012-03-12/property-tax-revenue-decline/53501194/1

Now I will agree that what happens down the road is a different story. The shared sacrifice strategy utilized in New York and Ohio seems appealing on paper. BTW, I don't live in Peoria, so I will be unable to let you know about the District 150 taxes.

[Chico]

They are children so I'll put the burden on the parents! and then society. We also need a system that will pull kids out of high school (which is a system to prepare for higher ed.) and put them in a trade school when the alternative would serve them and society better. Germany for one has this system down correctly.

Not talking about who to put the burden on. Talking about the c--- the teachers have to put up with in 150.

[tornado]

There's a little more clarity in today's newspaper on the District 150 tax increase...
but not because of PJS reporting - but instead because there's a public notice advertisement placed (apparently mandated by law) by Dist 150

It is titled:
TRUTH IN TAXATION NOTICE

and proceeds to say...
"Notice of Proposed Property Tax Increase for the City of Peoria School District #150"

I. They are holding an open hearing and they give the time & date

II. They state they want to raise tax revenue collected to $54,325,000 -
a tax hike of 2.36% over what was hauled in last year.

III. & IV. they also want to raise other taxes to get the TOTAL property tax haul up to almost $69 million for this coming year.


....so they are already getting $67.6 million per year - their enrollment is shrinking even tho they are paying themselves more, they are firing teachers (some in purely political & personal moves by Grenita Lathan) & closing schools by the boatload, and the economy is lousy & everyone else is getting by on less...

BUT...they need a few million more to cover their greed & mismanagement.......so I guess if you live in District 150 - now you have the details.


PLUS - we all know that District 150 also gets gobs of additional money from the state - LINK ..
so if you know the $$ amount they get in total from ALL sources and divide by the # of students...(keep in mind that it has been well documented that even of every 100 pupils claimed in enrollment figures - that as many as 20 never show up or are already gone from the district..)

...you can figure the cost per pupil in District 150 and compare to other school districts and private schools.
District 150 squanders between $10,000 and $11,000 per pupil to educate them...
most school districts do it on $6,000-7,000, some far less....and some FAR better private schools (even right here in Peoria) do it for less than $5,000 per student, AND have nearly 100% graduation rates!!!!

[SFP]

Tough times to ask for more but there could always be a compromise. I doubt if that the parties involved would go for it.

I'd say sure we'll give you the extra money on a few conditions. If the conditions are not met we get the money back.

1) School attendance per pupil needs to be at 99.9%
2) School overall test scores need to meet state minimum standard
3) Graduation rate needs to increase to a certain predetermined number
4) Teachers are to be graded by an independant board and if they do not meet a minimum standard they can be fired
5) If conditions are not met we can replace the school board

Something along these lines......Just not going to happen.

[tornado]

Unfortunately - more BAD economic news...

today's releases and announcements of economic indicators says the econony is still getting worse...

http://www.scpr.org/news/2012/12/20/35323/index-leading-economic-indicators-shows-us-economy/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-20/leading-economic-indicators-index-in-u-s-fell-0-2-in-november.html

seems everything is down - and this is right on the middle of what was expected to be a GOOD, recovering economy...boosted by seasonal hiring and Holiday shopping & spending
BUT all the economic news lately has been dismal...

-Housing starts dropped this past month - something that horribly bad for a supposedly recovering economy..
it also raises the speculation that the "good numbers" the last couple months were smoke & mirrors leading up to the election...

http://www.tennessean.com/viewart/20121220/BUSINESS02/312200060/Housing-starts-drop-November

-unemployment numbers are looking worse - another bombshell in the promise of a recovery

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/20/number-americans-seeking-unemployment-aid-rises/

-in Europe & elsewhere including Japan - suddenly employers have stopped hiring - uncertainly and no further seasonal need for new hires..
astoundingly - they say this was "unexpected" but it's because people just aren't that stupid - they see what's coming and they see how the governments are mismanaging everything

http://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/dutch-unemployment-rate-rise-unexpectedly-242182

http://www.steelorbis.com/steel-news/latest-news/unemployment-rate-edges-up-to-8-in-oecd-countries-in-oct-729631.htm

Employer surveys in the US also see that firms are NOT HIRING!!!

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking_news_detail.asp?id=29104&icid=3&d_str=20121211

Unfortunately this is the only place people are hiring...more security for SCHOOLS!
ARMED GUARDS at grade schools.
http://www.monroenews.com/news/2012/...g-security-pe/[/QUOTE]

[SFP]

The way both parties are playing with The Fiscal Cliff is not helping the economy either. Its great that they have jobs but businesses are not going to hire anyone with such uncertainties in the market. I also wish they would go after Corporate Welfare but neither party seems to mention all that waste. It appears we will be dealing with politics as usual.

[tornado]

if we make the Senate, House, and Presidency a no-pay job, eliminate the perks and stop the bribes - maybe we'd get honest people to do the job