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Another campus shooting at Virginia Tech

Beninator said:
I had a conversation similar to this tonight with a fellow poster. So let me get this straight, are you in favor of more background checks etc for gun purchases and ammunition purchase in the future?

FYI, I have been a gun owner since my father purchased a 22 rifle for me when I was in seventh grade and I agree that more needs to be done to improve the gun culture in the US.
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Agree but we also need to do more with our mental health culture. As a nation we tend to want to medicate someone and or send them to jail which by all accounts is not doing the job. I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to do a better job profiling the people that are capable of these atrocities and find a way in limiting these people from being totally disconnected.

This nation has always have had guns and mentally unstable individuals. Why is it now that these types of incident are happening so frequently. I believe part of it is the destruction of our small communities that kept these behavioral issues in check. Everyone had to contribute to their well being one way or the other if it meant working on a farm or factory which kept you from obsessing from negative thoughts.
 
SFP said:
Agree but we also need to do more with our mental health culture. As a nation we tend to want to medicate someone and or send them to jail which by all accounts is not doing the job. I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to do a better job profiling the people that are capable of these atrocities and find a way in limiting these people from being totally disconnected.

This nation has always have had guns and mentally unstable individuals. Why is it now that these types of incident are happening so frequently. I believe part of it is the destruction of our small communities that kept these behavioral issues in check. Everyone had to contribute to their well being one way or the other if it meant working on a farm or factory which kept you from obsessing from negative thoughts.
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I share your concern for the mental health issue. However, I do not think it's connection to violent behavior is due to medication use. If anything, it's just the opposite- these violent criminals would have been far less likely not to commit such horrible crimes if they had been identified and under treatment and medicated properly.

There has always been a small segment of the population who suffers from mental illness. However, throughout history, until just the last 40-50 years, societies have dealt with mental illness by warehousing those afflicted into asylums. At one time there were hundreds of large mental asylums in the US. The development of medications are what allowed most of these individuals to live normal or near-normal lives, and lead to closure of numerous facilities like the Peoria State Hospital.

As you say, most mentally ill people are not treated. The problem is that civil liberty groups have pushed for treatment of mental illness to be strictly voluntary, and most choose not to seek treatment or to stop taking their medications.
 
SFP said:
Agree but we also need to do more with our mental health culture. As a nation we tend to want to medicate someone and or send them to jail which by all accounts is not doing the job. I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to do a better job profiling the people that are capable of these atrocities and find a way in limiting these people from being totally disconnected.

This nation has always have had guns and mentally unstable individuals. Why is it now that these types of incident are happening so frequently. I believe part of it is the destruction of our small communities that kept these behavioral issues in check. Everyone had to contribute to their well being one way or the other if it meant working on a farm or factory which kept you from obsessing from negative thoughts.
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I agree with this as well. This is a complex issue that involves the gun culture, mental health, and as stated earlier in one of these threads video games.
 
almost every one of these mass murderers and even a big percentage of the dysfunctional people in history from Hitler to Lenin came from a dysfunctional family as well - a family where there was not a stable father-mother environment throughout childhood...
Many changes over the past decades have led to the majority of kids now being raised in a setting where they no longer have both their mother & father there.

We can outlaw guns and put kids on all kinds of medicines - but regardless of whether we deny it or ignore it - we have created a serious situation for generations to come where aggressive, dysfunctional kids filled with anger and hate will dominate headlines over and over again...society is paying the price of anti-family trends...
 
yet another enraged shooter kills multiple victims in Colorado but this time with the twist that just hours before he committed these crimes -
he was in jail on domestic violaence charges and his ex-girlfriend had pleaded for the law enforcement officials NOT to release him...
but release the killer they did - who immediately went out, bought a gun & ammo and went to the ex-girlfriend's home and killed three people then himself...!
http://news.yahoo.com/gunman-released-jail-hours-killings-235718323.html
 
small amounts of alcohol just 3 or 4 days per week does not cause irreversible brain damage and loss of cognitive function or IQ
...as this study has proven that small amounts of marijuana DOES CAUSE over time...
Large amounts of alcohol does have serious risks - I agree with you - but then almost every foreign substance put into the body can have risks - I guess I am just stunned at how little many people regard what they put into their system - especially some of the stuff just to make them "feel better" or get high
 
tornado said:
small amounts of alcohol just 3 or 4 days per week does not cause irreversible brain damage and loss of cognitive function or IQ
...as this study has proven that small amounts of marijuana DOES CAUSE over time...
Large amounts of alcohol does have serious risks - I agree with you - but then almost every foreign substance put into the body can have risks - I guess I am just stunned at how little many people regard what they put into their system - especially some of the stuff just to make them "feel better" or get high
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The article says that deficits were shown among adolescents deemed "Cannabis-Dependent" at some point in their teens. Without delving into the methodology it is hard to ascertain how that is measured, but if someone is dependent, that implies a larger than 'casual' dose. As a comparison, I would not say someone that Drinks a small amount 3-4 times a week as alcohol-dependent.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just think it should be treated the same way as alcohol. Age limitation, and taxation.
 
Chewa we are on the same page on this. Also decriminalization of pot will allow law enforcement to use their limited resources on try to stop violent crimes and thieves. The tax revenue from pot could be used for positive programs in the community instead of criminals using the money for guns and other destructive means.

BTW...I believe the legalization of pot is inevitable. Wall Street is starting to create investment vehicles for the distribution and growing of marijuana. Its just a matter of time they unleash their special interest on Washington.
 
Three more major multiple shooting incidents yesterday...

and not one of them would have been prevented by more gun laws - as all three were long time, repeat criminals who had their guns illegally and would have likely had them even if 100 more laws were passed!
-- two of them were free to commit more killings because the justice system went easy on them the LAST TIME THEY KILLED SOMEONE!!!

Funny how these shootings don't get anywhere near the publicity as some do.....


New York - William Spangler lures firefighters then shoots them
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/2...ing-2-firefighters-at-scene-western-ny-blaze/

...this guy was a lifelong criminal and was even convicted once before of shooting and killing his own grandmother - so why is he out of jail??
This guy sure isn't an NRA member - could we maybe turn some attention to those who are at fault instead of demonizing those who do NOT kill?
http://www.therightscoop.com/horrib...after-responding-to-house-fire-in-webster-ny/


In Houston - this shooter was just randomly killing people - he was a down-and-out druggie - and one of his victims killed was a police officer.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/2...oter-apologizes-for-officer-bystanders-deaths


In Seattle - in an incident reminiscent of last May's cafe shootings...

...a gunman walked into a cafe and started shooting...
this killer had also previously beaten & killed another victim just four years ago!!
So how is he on the street and how does he get guns?? Maybe this is the problem and not the laws governing guns that he obviously chose to ignore.
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Police-identify-suspect-in-Bellevue-fatal-shooting-184723491.html


Another random, gun-rage multiple shooting just two days earlier in Pennsylvania - was committed as well by an angry man on a rampage,
but the fact that he went to a church and specifically targeted a woman decorating the church for Christmas - suggests a hostility towards religion.
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/crime...in-Pa-slayings-of-3-gunman-killed-4140109.php


Another guy went wild and started shooting his gun in a barber shop in Missouri but thankfully he didn't kill anyone..
again -- same thing - just rage and anger over some horribly trivial issue - and he is not a right winger gun nut or NRA member.
BTW - this guy is ALSO A CONVICTED FELON and the laws already prohibit him from being in possession of a gun but he had one anyway!!
He said it was his wife's gun -- so I suppose we ought to start outlawing every gun that belongs to a relative of someone who shouldn't have a gun?
If we ever did go that far - maybe Adam Lanza's mom should have never had guns?
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_fad31906-a801-5819-9566-4d3129bbc114.html
http://hinterlandgazette.com/tag/lester-davis-newtown-school-shooting-massacre


Meanwhile, in Chicago, dozens are shot every week and barely get a mention even in Chicago!
Chicago already has some of the toughest gun laws in existence.
http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/12/20/in-newtowns-shadow-chicagos-bleak-gun-toll-goes-on/
 
tornado said:
more on Chicago

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/03/u...e-a-divide-in-chicago.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&
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There are two things that can help prevent these types of homicide. One is a long range plan of tearing down those communities and reshaping them and the other would be blasted by ACLU and other organizations that are supposedly there to look out for these communities. :rolleyes:

There are a ton of other communities with the same issues but not quite as large. I say if NY can make a difference why not Chicago. Oh they had a mayor that was elected because he would get tough on crime regardless. Maybe what Chicago needs is to elect a Republican who will clean the streets.
 
SFP said:
Maybe what Chicago needs is to elect a Republican who will clean the streets.
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How about someone that will actively pursue measures to improve the safety in the city and surrounding areas through their a comprehensive agenda as well as by appointing competent, rational, skilled, and passionate individuals to office that believe in the task?
 
Never been a fan of the present Chicago mayor, but why not put the blame where it belongs. On the ones committing the crimes.
 
Chico said:
Never been a fan of the present Chicago mayor, but why not put the blame where it belongs. On the ones committing the crimes.
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No one here was blaming anyone else but the criminal elements for their crimes. What we were discussing was how Chicago could possibly end this crime wave. Short of all the thugs shooting each other up there is no one answer. The long term answer would have to address the social, cultural and economic issues. The short term would cost the city a ton of money, be able to rally the vast majority of the effected community to action with protection and come up ways with policing that flirt with personal freedoms. I'm guessing unless the city calls in the feds to break up the gangs and drug traffic not much can or will be done.
 
SFP said:
No one here was blaming anyone else but the criminal elements for their crimes. What we were discussing was how Chicago could possibly end this crime wave. Short of all the thugs shooting each other up there is no one answer. The long term answer would have to address the social, cultural and economic issues. The short term would cost the city a ton of money, be able to rally the vast majority of the effected community to action with protection and come up ways with policing that flirt with personal freedoms. I'm guessing unless the city calls in the feds to break up the gangs and drug traffic not much can or will be done.
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Not much can be done. How are you going to stop the element causing the problems?
 
the problem is a general mindset among an entire generation of an entitlement - that they are miserable because of someone else (that's what the politicians are telling them - same goes here)
..and that they are entitled to better - and when they don't get what they want they go ballistic, arm themselves, and take the action they see fit to get even...
More blatant cases of mass murder happened again overnite..
I laugh when I see the gurus blame the NRA, blame the right-wing-rhetoric, or blame talk radio...not one of these killers fits any of those molds...they are all personal failures who have been coddled all their lives and told their lives are miserable because of someone else who is successful.

http://missuniverse2012streaming.blogspot.com/2013/01/ronald-bae-john-paul-suspects-in-cavite.html
http://news.yahoo.com/philippine-officials-man-fatally-shoots-7-being-killed-075201719.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/04/world/europe/swiss-gunman-was-known-to-authorities.html?_r=0
 
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