O/t e=mc?

[Beninator]

I found this story interesting. Although it needs further confirmation, scientist at the CERN believe there is a strong possibility that neutrinos move faster than the speed of light, which if correct, would force a rethink of Einstein's theory of relativity.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/23/science-light-idUSL5E7KN25Q20110923

[tornado]

There are many people who are already doubters based on what's been released...
as has happened many times before with other wild "scientific claims"...
(desktop fusion claims, alien bacteria/arsenic claims, fossil germs inside of a meteor claims, claims we're still getting warmer when tremendously overwhelming, accurate data & experts clearly show we are NOT, Geocentrism - the flat-earth being the center of the universe, and the age-old thought that lead and other base metals could be altered and changed into GOLD via alchemy, and spontaneous generation, and then, of course, spontaneous human combustion!)

....where the instant the people making the claims actually release their facts and data, the world then immediately sees the faults and debunks their claims.

I always find it intriguing that the ridiculous CLAIMS are always on the front page but when those claims are soundly debunked, it barely gets reported.

[Beninator]

But other scientists are exploring this possibility as well and further studies will be undertaken. If these scientist don't think outside the box, how can discoveries and improvements to theories be made?

"These hints were detected last year in Fermilab's MINOS experiment with neutrinos, but -- unlike those of OPERA -- were found to be within a normal margin of error."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/23/science-light-idUSL5E7KN25Q20110923

[ChewaBrave]

Particle physics is not my field of science, but I often find myself wishing it was. They really get to do some incredibly interesting things. A better understanding about the link between matter and energy would be invaluable, especially in this day and age.

Cool stuff.

[thefish7]

There are many people who are already doubters based on what's been released...
as has happened many times before with other wild "scientific claims"...
(desktop fusion claims, alien bacteria/arsenic claims, fossil germs inside of a meteor claims, claims we're still getting warmer when tremendously overwhelming, accurate data & experts clearly show we are NOT, Geocentrism - the flat-earth being the center of the universe, and the age-old thought that lead and other base metals could be altered and changed into GOLD via alchemy, and spontaneous generation, and then, of course, spontaneous human combustion!)

....where the instant the people making the claims actually release their facts and data, the world then immediately sees the faults and debunks their claims.

I always find it intriguing that the ridiculous CLAIMS are always on the front page but when those claims are soundly debunked, it barely gets reported.

Yeah, but this claim is being made by CERN. You're sort of lumping them in with a bunch of pseudoscience stuff, which is about as ridiculous as Geocentrism.

[Da Coach]

But as the articles say, even the scientists who have come to these findings are not sure they believe them because they go against longstanding accepted principles. It's just that they can't see where errors in their measurements/calculations are, if any, so they are releasing their data for other scientists to scrutinize. I suspect someone will discover some flaw, and disprove this.

[tornado]

I have always just been a skeptic and need to be convinced...

anyway -- Einstein essentially DISPROVED all of what Isaac Newton worked his entire life on and based his reputation - and so if Einstein's laws are now the accepted rules of physics, and they are disproven - does it not show that really nobody really knows the truth...and that we may be NO CLOSER to knowing all the laws of the universe and all the truth than we ever were.
Why is that?? e.g. ....What's just beyond the edge of the universe?

[ChewaBrave]

I don't really think it is possible for science to move backwards. Greater understanding, through failure or confirmation (be it tentative or otherwise) is always progress. Hopefully updates on this story are forth coming.

[SFP]

Particle physics is not my field of science, but I often find myself wishing it was. They really get to do some incredibly interesting things. A better understanding about the link between matter and energy would be invaluable, especially in this day and age.

Cool stuff.

I agree! I feel the same way.

I'd have to believe that there is something more to this. Perhaps the Neutrinos trigger a rip in the our time fabric to throw off the numbers. There have been plenty of theories on worm holes and other ways in which we can travel as if we are going faster then the speed of light.

[tornado]

..
....where the instant the people making the claims actually release their facts and data, the world then immediately sees the faults and debunks their claims.

I always find it intriguing that the ridiculous CLAIMS are always on the front page but when those claims are soundly debunked, it barely gets reported.

Only three weeks have passed and this claim appears to be getting debunked.....

Now we appear to have the explanation for the mistake the CERN researchers made...as further review of their data
shows that their neutrinos moved precisely the same speed as they were supposed to...
but don't expect to find this slightly embarrassing research on the front pages -- as it'll make those newspapers look a bit silly.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27260/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnfarrell/2011/10/14/netherland-scientist-claims-solution-to-the-ftl-neutrino-problem/

You can bet the name Ronald van Elburg will not be remembered in history but his work has debunked this faster-than-the-speed-of-light claim.

[Future Walk-On]

yeah we were discussing this last night. we all heard about it....but not about it getting debunked.

[ChewaBrave]

Hehe I love the use of the word "Debunk". Neat Stuff

[AZ BU Fan]

I have always just been a skeptic and need to be convinced...

anyway -- Einstein essentially DISPROVED all of what Isaac Newton worked his entire life on and based his reputation - and so if Einstein's laws are now the accepted rules of physics, and they are disproven - does it not show that really nobody really knows the truth...and that we may be NO CLOSER to knowing all the laws of the universe and all the truth than we ever were.
Why is that?? e.g. ....What's just beyond the edge of the universe?

UFO's!

http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/062/S62952.html

[FlyingSpaghettiMonster]

does it not show that really nobody really knows the truth...and that we may be NO CLOSER to knowing all the laws of the universe and all the truth than we ever were.
Why is that?? e.g. ....What's just beyond the edge of the universe?

I'm not sure if this is a real question. Science does not deal with what is beyond the "edge of the universe" or what came before the big bang. Humans may never be able to fully understand physics and almost certainly won't within my lifetime (unless the singularity is reached...).

[tornado]

Science does not deal with what is beyond the "edge of the universe" or what came before the big bang. ...

why do you say this? Did you not see the Stephen Hawking Discovery Channel special a few weeks ago...
That dealt extensively with what he thought happened before the big bang and how it occurred in the absence of any higher power...
but...if you are going to take that point - I do agree that science should NOT try to answer what it cannot see, observe, or measure...however they do it all the time...


They take wild guesses on how things might have happened supposedly billions of years ago and then call it science..