OT: Caterpillar threatening to leave Illinois!

[Shock1]

"If you recall, Governor Quinn decided to tax the heck out of the trucking industry"

Can you expand on that? What tax was implemented targeting the trucking industry?

Aren't they going to hurry back to Illinois now that Rauner is elected?

[Da Coach]

Bruce Rauner will have no power to legislate, and both state house and senate are heavily democratic and under the control of Mike Madigan. Unfortunately, Rauner cannot override laws with his pen and his phone like Obama.

Recent hikes in corporate taxes have caused a lot of businesses and people to flee Illinois

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/ct-biz-illinois-companies-leaving-photogallery.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-05-13/opinion/ct-illinois-population-loss-texas-indiana-taxes-05-20140513_1_job-market-illinoisans-gallup-polls

[Shock1]

I see nothing there targeting the trucking industry.

No doubt taxes are high here, but much lower than Wisconsin (whose governor Rauner seems to want to emulate).

[Da Coach]

I see nothing there targeting the trucking industry.

No doubt taxes are high here, but much lower than Wisconsin (whose governor Rauner seems to want to emulate).

I'm not sure where you are getting your info, maybe from the Pat Quinn campaign. But Illinois has one of the top corporate income taxes in the country and much higher than in Wisconsin.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/top-state-corporate-income-tax-rates-2014

There is little doubt companies are fleeing Illinois due the the high tax structure and recent increases

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20110119/NEWS07/110119832?template=mobile

http://m.mic.com/articles/3015/high-taxes-in-illinois-pushing-out-businesses-jobs-and-residents

[Shock1]

I am talking about state tax burdens:

http://taxfoundation.org/article/annual-state-local-tax-burden-ranking-fy-2011

Still waiting for the trucking taxes...

[Shock1]

And you may find this interesting:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-06/opinion/ct-oped-0806-mccarron-20120806_1_tax-collectors-citizens-for-tax-justice-corporations

Most likely, Caterpillar pays FAR less than the published tax rates.

[Da Coach]

This discussion is about corporate taxes not some percentage of overall state revenues. It is the corporate income taxes thatare driving companies out of Illinois. Last time I checked, trucking companies were subject to this corporate income tax, and Illinois has one of the highest in the entire country. I know someone who moved his business from Illinois to Wisconsin and saved millions in taxes.
Spin things any way you want but Illinois is nearly bankrupt thanks to the cozy deals between Madigan and the Dems and the state unions. Now there isn't enough money to pay the unfunded pension commitments. The corporate taxes are among the highest in the US. It's ludicrous to suggest they are not driving businesses out of the state.

[Shock1]

People always complaining about taxes kill me. You do want schools don't you? Roads....police protection....snow plowed....parks....???

Illinois residents are certainly not overtaxed and if the increase in state income taxes expire we are going to be in even worse financial straits. Do we have ot make changes? For sure, but cutting the revenue is not the solution. I gladly pay my taxes and appreciate the services I receive.

[Da Coach]

We all pay our taxes. I am a private business owner and even with the big jump in income taxes, I happily pay the taxes (plus I don't need the tax people hunting me down ). But it just gets passed along to the customers and that hurts business. It's the faulty logic of some politicians that simply raising taxes will solve the massive debt and revenue deficiency. It's been shown many times that lowering taxes actually expands businesses and the economy, draws new businesses, employs more people, and in the end generates more tax revenue. It is the lower tax States that are seeing an economical boom right now and low unemployment.

Thanks for the debate. I doubt we'll change each other's minds. Gotta get back to the game I'm watching.

[SpfldBUAlum]

I believe it was Blago who put the biggest hit on the trucking industry in Illinois It may have been more of an increase in fee's than a tax increase that he added on.


Don't blame public employees for the mess this state is in! The problem is/was politicians that wanted to keep giving away goodies to help their reelection chances but had to use gimmicks like not paying into pension funds so that they didn't have to raise the revenue to cover what they were spending!


Not that I want to see taxes raised but in reality the overall tax burden in Illinois is actually low compared to our neighboring states. if you are interested in this political stuff go check out www.capitolfax.com for all the Illinois political info you could want!

[tornado]

What tax was implemented targeting the trucking industry? ...

It was a story that was barely covered by the media - but...along the line of telling business owners "You didn't build that"....
Quinn told the truckers that the state was subsidizing them with road repairs and needed to lay more taxes on truckers- Quinn imposed new taxes that effectively meant any big truck using diesel fuel would have to pay about $1000 more per year.....
It was taxation that the truckers could avoid by registering their trucks in other states - which the Star trucking owner sought to do -- first Oklahoma, then transferring ownership of the entire business to Arizona....now the entire business and operations are in Arizona..
notice his business is no longer even called Star Trucking or Star Transport -as that aspect of the business is now in Arizona
With >1000 vehicles registered in Illinois back in 2008, the owner of Star openly stated in the press if Quinn did this, he'd consider moving his operations out of Illinois because he simply could not afford $1 million in extra taxes - and ...quietly, gradually he made good on his promise.

When Quinn started enacting his new taxes, the state of Illinois lost MORE jobs and more businesses than any other state

http://www.businessinsider.com/illinois-loses-most-jobs-in-the-nation-following-tax-hike-2011-8

People always complaining about taxes kill me...

well people have been complaining about taxes since taxes were invented, and I haven't met anyone yet who likes paying taxes...
But... I have paid my share of taxes, so I think that qualifies me as an expert...and I am convinced that a HUGE portion of what we all pay in taxes
is wasted or ends up either in the hands of people who do not need nor deserve it or ends up in the pockets of crooked politicians and their cronies.
If I ran my business as crooked and as blatantly corruptly or inefficiently as the state runs theirs, I can guarantee people would be complaining about me, so I think the complaints are fair..

[btbird]

People always complaining about taxes kill me. You do want schools don't you? Roads....police protection....snow plowed....parks....???

Other states have these same services yet many pay a fraction of what we do and still manage to keep the states finances in line.

Illinois residents are certainly not overtaxed and if the increase in state income taxes expire we are going to be in even worse financial straits. Do we have ot make changes? For sure, but cutting the revenue is not the solution.

I'm not sure where you live but I pay 12k a year in property taxes which is roughly 4% of the value of my home. If I moved to Indiana and bought a similar house, I would be in the 4-6k range. I'm obviously going to be sensitive to any increase in income tax since the state is structured to put a higher tax burden on the municipalities.

[Deadguy35]

"If you recall, Governor Quinn decided to tax the heck out of the trucking industry"

Can you expand on that? What tax was implemented targeting the trucking industry?

Aren't they going to hurry back to Illinois now that Rauner is elected?

The method of calculating the apportionment factor was changed, effective for all years ending on or after 12/31/2008.

Instead of apportioning by revenue ton miles (Illinois miles/Everywhere Miles), it became a much more complex factor adjusted to Gross Receipts.

I'm a CPA, and the biggest problem Trucking Companies are having is tracking the miles in order to comply with the new law. The new law doesn't change the factor (percentage of Illinois Business Income subject to tax) by much. The bigger problem is tracking ALL of the miles.

Just to give an example of how complex the law has become: Company Y picks up goods in Kansas City and drop ships it in Indianapolis. Even though they are picking up and drop shipping the items outside of Illinois, since they are using I-70 in Illinois to transport the goods, Illinois is taxing a portion of the invoice ((Illinois Miles/Everywhere Miles)X Invoice Receipts).

That in it of itself is not all that different from how other states tax transportation companies. The problem is using this application for EVERY invoice! Imagine how difficult it would be to come up with the right apportionment factor if you are a large transportation company that has thousands of invoices! Thus the real problem is the cost associated with the man hours needed to comply with the new law. That is if Transportation companies can change their internal systems to track receipts this way! It really does not generate that much more revenue for the State of Illinois, from what I have seen.

What's worse is that Illinois still has not provided a regulation for the new law. If you read the IITA, it is very difficult to determine what Illinois wants.

I would guess the frustration with trying to comply with the new law is the bigger issue with Star Transport, but I do not know all the facts in that situation.

[Deadguy35]

This discussion is about corporate taxes not some percentage of overall state revenues. It is the corporate income taxes thatare driving companies out of Illinois. Last time I checked, trucking companies were subject to this corporate income tax, and Illinois has one of the highest in the entire country. I know someone who moved his business from Illinois to Wisconsin and saved millions in taxes.
Spin things any way you want but Illinois is nearly bankrupt thanks to the cozy deals between Madigan and the Dems and the state unions. Now there isn't enough money to pay the unfunded pension commitments. The corporate taxes are among the highest in the US. It's ludicrous to suggest they are not driving businesses out of the state.

This is true. I think the 9.5% Corporate Rate, (7% IT +2.5% RT) in addition to the suspension of the Carry Forward of Illinois Net Losses is what truly hurt a lot of Corporations in Illinois. That is a much bigger problem than changing the law for the Transportation Factor.

The Factor simply provides a shift in tax burden from one state to another and would not a have huge impact on most transportation companies. If their factor increases in Illinois, it will be lower in other states.

The increase in the Corporate Rate was rather unnecessary when you consider the fact that corporate tax revenue represents only 6-8% of the revenue generated by Illinois. It is tied to the increase in the Individual rate, however.

[Da Coach]

I am talking about state tax burdens:

http://taxfoundation.org/article/annual-state-local-tax-burden-ranking-fy-2011

Still waiting for the trucking taxes...

By the way, that page Shock1 linked to was from 2011, before additional massive tax hikes took effect in Illinois.
In 2011, the Democrats used a lame duck session to raise personal income taxes 67%, and raise corporate income taxes 46%.

http://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/illinois-is-a-high-tax-state/

Those changes were promised to be temporary, but we all know that a Democratic controlled state legislature is not going to allow those huge tax hikes to expire.


Illlinois now has one of the highest income tax structures in the country-

http://www.chicagomag.com/real-estate/January-2014/Illinois-Now-Has-the-Second-Highest-Property-Taxes-in-the-Nation/

Illinois, combined with the high local sales taxes, is in the top 10 of all states in average sales taxes-

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0612/10-states-with-high-sales-taxes.aspx

Illinois also has the 2nd highest property taxes in the entire country.

http://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-has-the-2nd-highest-property-taxes-in-nation/

And, as was the original topic of this debate, Illinois had the 2nd highest corporate income tax rate in the country when the increase was passed in 2011-

http://taxfoundation.org/article/illinois-corporate-tax-hike-inches-us-closer-1-ranking-globally

It is now said that the Illinois corporate income tax is the 4th highest in the world-

http://quincyjournal.com/illinois-4th-highest-corporate-income-tax-rate-in-the-industrial-world1356100351.html

And just to stay consistent, Illinois also has the 6th highest gasoline taxes among the 50 states-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-anEIVZ9RGSk/U445ensFnJI/AAAAAAAAZ84/9WYwuhU_-GQ/s1600/gas+taxes.png

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/top-10-states-highest-gasoline-taxes/story?id=20093917#6

So it is no surprise that trucking companies are flocking out of the state.
Here is a recent article with a good example- about a trucking business that pulled up and moved to Indiana.

http://www.chicagonow.com/publius-forum/2012/08/family-of-illinois-state-senator-moves-business-out-of-illinois/