OT: Caterpillar threatening to leave Illinois!

[Bravesfan]

" On the Senate floor, Michigan Democrat Debbie Stabenow urged her colleagues to abolish the kinds of tax incentives that benefited refrigerator-maker Electrolux. They closed down a Michigan plant a few years ago then moved production to Mexico."

Gee, what a shock!

[Bravesfan]

I have no problem with taxing the wealthy -- but again -- you are targeting the most successful who generally use their income to start or expand businesses and hire more...

remember -- those taxes are on income not wealth -- the people with the most wealth...
the Kennedy's, George Soros, many Hollywood elite, etc...are all liberal and they know their huge stockpiles of $$ already in the bank won't be hurt...

Bingo! You are absolutely correct.

[Beninator]

Gee, what a shock!

A shock??? Sounds like good policy to me!

[BUFanatic]

Not to mention how it will affect charitable giving around the area. Whether it's an arts organization or local charity, CAT is usually a top donor, if not the top donor.

[Bravesfan]

A shock??? Sounds like good policy to me!

I meant what a shock that it was liberal democrat that was against this in the first place.

[SFP]

Algotrader is not all wrong. Enterprise corporations on average pay a lot less taxes then the average business due to all the loop hole their special interest groups have created both with the Feds and state level. What I do not agree with is that government has a right to your hard working dollars from businesses let alone individuals. The waste of hardworking American's income through taxes is amazing. My belief is that taxes do not need to be raised but loop holes closed and accountability of how government spends your taxes. Right now special projects are created to help elected officials raise money for re-election campaign and now with the ability for corporations to raise money we will see a sharp increase of corporate concerns monopolizing government. CAT will be fine because their leadership has the ability to buy themselves the elected official they need to keep their tax dollars. Really people look at some raw numbers and tell me who pays the majority of the taxes in this country? I'll give you a clue, it's not the uber rich or large enterprise corporations.

Even the playing field and establish a platform where the middle class can thrive again!

[Da Coach]

...CAT will be fine because their leadership has the ability to buy themselves the elected official they need to keep their tax dollars. Really people look at some raw numbers and tell me who pays the majority of the taxes in this country? I'll give you a clue, it's not the uber rich or large enterprise corporations.

Even the playing field and establish a platform where the middle class can thrive again!

Sorry, I agree with much you say, SFP, but the part about the rich not paying their share of the taxes is a totally false myth created by big-government liberals who want to take as much of their money as they can.

Here is the truth-
From TheTaxFoundation.com (a non-partisan, non-political organization)-

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

As can be seen-
The top 1% of all taxpayers pay 38% of all the income taxes.
The top 5% of all taxpayers (the uber rich) pay 58.7% of the income taxes (the majority)
And the top 10% of taxpayers pay a whopping 70% of all income taxes.
And the top 50% pay 97.3% of all income taxes....virtually all of it!

And the bottom half of all taxpayers pay a miniscule 2.7% of this country's income taxes.

It looks to me that the "uber rich" do pay the majority of income taxes in this country.

[Future Walk-On]

thanks ben

[AZ BU Fan]

Sorry, I agree with much you say, SFP, but the part about the rich not paying their share of the taxes is a totally false myth created by big-government liberals who want to take as much of their money as they can.

Here is the truth-
From TheTaxFoundation.com (a non-partisan, non-political organization)-

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

As can be seen-
The top 1% of all taxpayers pay 38% of all the income taxes.
The top 5% of all taxpayers (the uber rich) pay 58.7% of the income taxes (the majority)
And the top 10% of taxpayers pay a whopping 70% of all income taxes.
And the top 50% pay 97.3% of all income taxes....virtually all of it!

And the bottom half of all taxpayers pay a miniscule 2.7% of this country's income taxes.

It looks to me that the "uber rich" do pay the majority of income taxes in this country.

What's worrying is the 50% of the taxpayers, which is actually more than 50% of the population, who only pay 2.7% of the total tax bill, have the same voice as to what taxes they and others should pay, and, how much of the taxes collected they should get back in entitlements....This does not make for a stable democracy....

[AE Braves Fan]

What's worrying is the 50% of the taxpayers, which is actually more than 50% of the population, who only pay 2.7% of the total tax bill, have the same voice as to what taxes they and others should pay, and, how much of the taxes collected they should get back in entitlements....This does not make for a stable democracy....

I wonder what % of the population are in this bottom half or don't pay any taxes at all. I'm sure that number would make me even more sick.

[SFP]

Da Coach there are other statistics that are not part of the picture of that nice chart you provided. I have a good friend who manages wealth for high end clients and the amount of money being transfered globally, around corporate affiliations and trusts for individuals would make your mind spin. The rich have ways to hide and move their income from Uncle Sam, that others cannot imagine. I'm not even going to go into corporate write offs that should be considered income. Now if we had a flat tax rate without the ability to write anything off, zero loop holes for corporate or individuals then I'd be happy, of course add election reform to this equation.

[Chico]

Da Coach there are other statistics that are not part of the picture of that nice chart you provided. I have a good friend who manages wealth for high end clients and the amount of money being transfered globally, around corporate affiliations and trusts for individuals would make your mind spin. The rich have ways to hide and move their income from Uncle Sam, that others cannot imagine. I'm not even going to go into corporate write offs that should be considered income. Now if we had a flat tax rate without the ability to write anything off, zero loop holes for corporate or individuals then I'd be happy, of course add election reform to this equation.

Maybe AZ fan can confirm this, but I believe the great state of Arizona is heading in that direction.

[amckillip]

Da Coach there are other statistics that are not part of the picture of that nice chart you provided. I have a good friend who manages wealth for high end clients and the amount of money being transfered globally, around corporate affiliations and trusts for individuals would make your mind spin. The rich have ways to hide and move their income from Uncle Sam, that others cannot imagine. I'm not even going to go into corporate write offs that should be considered income. Now if we had a flat tax rate without the ability to write anything off, zero loop holes for corporate or individuals then I'd be happy, of course add election reform to this equation.

Check out the special right now on 60 minutes. Explains all the loopholes companys (and very wealthy individuals) use to lower there US income and taxes.

[SFP]

What's worrying is the 50% of the taxpayers, which is actually more than 50% of the population, who only pay 2.7% of the total tax bill, have the same voice as to what taxes they and others should pay, and, how much of the taxes collected they should get back in entitlements....This does not make for a stable democracy....

AZ you are kidding about having the same voice!The top 2% have a voice the rest of us just dream or believe we have one.

[Beninator]

Sorry, I agree with much you say, SFP, but the part about the rich not paying their share of the taxes is a totally false myth created by big-government liberals who want to take as much of their money as they can.

Here is the truth-
From TheTaxFoundation.com (a non-partisan, non-political organization)-

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

As can be seen-
The top 1% of all taxpayers pay 38% of all the income taxes.
The top 5% of all taxpayers (the uber rich) pay 58.7% of the income taxes (the majority)
And the top 10% of taxpayers pay a whopping 70% of all income taxes.
And the top 50% pay 97.3% of all income taxes....virtually all of it!

And the bottom half of all taxpayers pay a miniscule 2.7% of this country's income taxes.

It looks to me that the "uber rich" do pay the majority of income taxes in this country.

First off, The Tax Foundation is an anti-tax, pro business organization, so that is the last place that I would consult for a non biased opinion. However, for argument's sake, lets just accept that chart as the top 300,000 Americans enjoyed as much income as the bottom 150 million Americans. All this has to do with a alarming trend of a widening between the ultra rich and the middle class in this country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html

However, that is just one part of the puzzle that has been left out this post. The real indicator to look at is the real income of the top 1% of wage earners in this country as opposed to the middle class. This article from the New York Times states that 80% of the net income gains since 1980 went to the top 1% of the income distribution. These levels have not been seen since the Great Depression in the 1930's.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html

Also, studies from the Congressional Budget Office further illustrate the widening income gap that exists in the US.

"Instead, the wealthiest households reaped a sharply growing share of the nation??™s income, while the share going to middle- and lower-income households shrank (see Figure 3). Between 1979 and 2007:
The top 1 percent??™s share of the nation??™s total after-tax household income more than doubled, from 7.5 percent to 17.1 percent.
The share of income going to the middle three-fifths (or 60 percent) of households shrank from 51.1 percent to 43.5 percent.
The share going to the bottom fifth of households declined from 6.8 percent to 4.9 percent.
The share going to the bottom four-fifths (80 percent) of the population declined from 58 percent to 48 percent.
In 2007, the top 1 percent received a larger share of the nation??™s after-tax income than the middle 20 percent of the population. This represents a significant change from 1979, when the middle fifth received more than twice as much of the nation??™s income as the top 1 percent (16.5 percent versus 7.5 percent)."

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3220

IMO, as a progressive, we need to change our economic thinking about supply side economics. Something that David Stockman, former OMB director under Ronald Reagan, has stated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1