OT- Caterpillar considering leaving Illinois

[Da Coach]

Caterpillar is raising the possibility of leaving Illinois, thanks to the recent tax hike by Governor Quinn-

http://www.pjstar.com/business/x1315030250/Caterpillar-raises-specter-of-moving-from-Illinois

this was discussed in a previous thread-

http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17392

[SFP]

We all believe that government is wasting our tax dollars and should not be given a green light to raise our taxes until they show the citizens that they will use the extra dollars to lower the deficit and stop spending money on pork and programs that do not benefit the country as a whole.

[Beninator]

Maybe we need to move the thread over to this part of the board? It was an interesting discussion even if parts of the discussion was about voodoo economics!

[tornado]

We all believe that government is wasting our tax dollars ...

"government" does not care...as long as there's millions of $$ to be made by being a representative or senator...and as long as they are spending, wasting, and giving away someone else's money...


BTW -- Michael Moore was on Stephen Colbert last night talking his weirdo talk that the 400 richest people in American own more wealth than the bottom 150 million people...
thus his belief is that the money they hold should be considered a natural resource and should be taken by the feds and given to everyone else..
I was so relieved when Colbert immediately and properly labeled that Communism, and said those are also the people who produce the jobs in this nation and hurting them will destroy jobs..
.. and he mocked Moore for such ruinous and ignorant beliefs and that Moore himself is hypocritical since he's wealthy

[BradleyJD]

Michael Moore is an *****, but Colbert is even worse.

How do these people get TV shows?

[Beninator]

"government" does not care...as long as there's millions of $$ to be made by being a representative or senator...and as long as they are spending, wasting, and giving away someone else's money...


BTW -- Michael Moore was on Stephen Colbert last night talking his weirdo talk that the 400 richest people in American own more wealth than the bottom 150 million people...
thus his belief is that the money they hold should be considered a natural resource and should be taken by the feds and given to everyone else..
I was so relieved when Colbert immediately and properly labeled that Communism, and said those are also the people who produce the jobs in this nation and hurting them will destroy jobs..
.. and he mocked Moore for such ruinous and ignorant beliefs and that Moore himself is hypocritical since he's wealthy

Perhaps a derivative of some figures that I have seen that state that the top 300,000 people in the country earn more than the bottom 150 million. I have links on the thread on the sports forum.

And JD is correct. Michael Moore is an *****!

[AZ BU Fan]

Don't know for sure, but I would bet the top XXX of wealthy people in the US have always owned more than the bottom yyy combined.... Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Astor, Carniege, Ford, Mellon, Morgan,

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/business/..._GRAPHIC.html#

Difference is the top xxx have access to billions more capital, and people, around the world to make money from vs their predecessors....

End The Fed
Term Limits
No Defecit Budgets
No Exclusion For Politicians From Legislation They Pass

[Beninator]

This article is from 2007, but I have not seen anything that would suggest that the gap has narrowed.

"Income inequality grew significantly in 2005, with the top 1 percent of Americans ??” those with incomes that year of more than $348,000 ??” receiving their largest share of national income since 1928, analysis of newly released tax data shows."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html?_r=1

[SFP]

This article is from 2007, but I have not seen anything that would suggest that the gap has narrowed.

"Income inequality grew significantly in 2005, with the top 1 percent of Americans ??” those with incomes that year of more than $348,000 ??” receiving their largest share of national income since 1928, analysis of newly released tax data shows."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/bu...9tax.html?_r=1

What concerns me about the gap is not because these top 1% people have created any tangible assets but because they found a way to work the system.

I'm all about rewarding innovation and hard work that actually produces tangible assets but creating income from having the government create loopholes and special interest driving contracts for the benefit of the large corporations at the expense of the middle class, now I have a problem!

[Beninator]

What concerns me about the gap is not because these top 1% people have created any tangible assets but because they found a way to work the system.

I'm all about rewarding innovation and hard work that actually produces tangible assets but creating income from having the government create loopholes and special interest driving contracts for the benefit of the large corporations at the expense of the middle class, now I have a problem!

Agree SFP, but what concerns me is the supply side economic theories that help create this mess!

[Deadguy35]

Worst case scenario is the Corporate Headquarters moves to say Sioux Falls or Omaha. This would be similar to what happened when Boeing moved from Seattle to Chicago:

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004qaY

500 employees ended up relocating from Seattle to Chicago.

10 years laters, Boeing still has no major manufacturing plants in Illinois, Seattle still exists, and Boeing is still the number one private employer in Washington.

As far as all of the manufacturing plants getting shut down....it's just not cost feasible. It costs a lot of money to build these manufactuing plants elsewhere and it's not like building these plants can happen over night.

Moving its corporate headquarters to get grants, credits, etc. from a different state is possible, can be done relatively quickly, and can be done at a relatively low cost . More than likely, they're just looking for something similar to what Groupon (one of the fastest growing companies ever) got from the State of Illinois last fall:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/20/groupon-gets-35-million-f_n_769794.html

By the way, there was no mention of what impact the increase in Corporate Income Tax will have on Caterpillar because it will have no impact! A net income of 0 multiplied by 7.3% (4.8 + 2.5 Replacement Tax) is the same as 0 multilied by 9.5% (7 + 2.5). Caterpillar has twisted the state's arm for so long that it qualifies for so many enterprise zone, Replacement Tax, and Income Investment tax credits that it doesn't pay corporate income taxes to the State of Illinois.

Caterpillar is also the reason Replacement Tax exists. They took the State of Illinois to court in the 70s because they deemed it unfair for them to have to pay taxes based on the amount of property they owned. When Illinois lost the case, they created a 2.5% "Replacement" tax so that they wouldn't lose all that income. This in turn hurt other C corps in the state and gave Caterpillar another competitive advantage.

[Da Coach]

None of this seems to be effecting the financial standing of Cat.
At the time I am posting this, CAT stock is at 111.08 per share, an all-time high.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=cat&ql=1

[Chico]

They can always cut their losses by taking it out on the salaried workers and salaried retirees as usual..

[thefish7]

As far as all of the manufacturing plants getting shut down....it's just not cost feasible. It costs a lot of money to build these manufactuing plants elsewhere and it's not like building these plants can happen over night.

If you're watching the press releases a lot of the investments have already been made. Victoria and Seguin TX come to mind.

[AZ BU Fan]

They can always cut their losses by taking it out on the salaried workers and salaried retirees as usual..

Hopefully the beleagured salaried, and salried retirees, put a little of their Cat pay and profit sharing $$ into Cat stock along the way (with the Compay match) and let the dividends re-invest.....

I did, and thirty five years later, I'm pretty happy with Caterpillar!