OT- how many think we need a $ multibillion $ high speed rail network?

[tornado]

President Obama promised it in his State of the Union address, and a few touristy communities such as Orlando/Disney World/Tampa etc...favor the feds spending the estimated multiple billions..

BUT just wondering if even one person actually thinks you'd ever really desire or need such a high speed railway?

Hardly anyone ever rides trains, and even in their wildest estimates, they still wouldn't get enough riders to pay even a fraction of the costs so it would need ongoing underwriting with more $billions of our taxpayer dollars way, way into the future...

I think this and the hundreds of billions spent sending machines into space just to tell us the moon and Mars are made of rocks are wasted taxpayer money..

I would like to note that a well known Bradley graduate, who is currently the Secretary of Transportation is embroiled in the middle of this and he's actually of the diametric opposite opinion as our president and feels it is a waste..

[Da Coach]

$53 billion projected-

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2047110,00.html

and we know that if this effort proceeded, that cost would multiply.

A high speed rail system would be great for this country, but it is something that our leaders should have been developing all along over the past 50 years. This is not the time to spend those kinds of amounts on something most people do not need and only a small fraction of citizens would ever use. Let the private sector develop those things if there is a demand for them.

[canadian]

President Obama promised it in his State of the Union address, and a few touristy communities such as Orlando/Disney World/Tampa etc...favor the feds spending the estimated multiple billions..

BUT just wondering if even one person actually thinks you'd ever really desire or need such a high speed railway?

Hardly anyone ever rides trains, and even in their wildest estimates, they still wouldn't get enough riders to pay even a fraction of the costs so it would need ongoing underwriting with more $billions of our taxpayer dollars way, way into the future...

I think this and the hundreds of billions spent sending machines into space just to tell us the moon and Mars are made of rocks are wasted taxpayer money..

I would like to note that a well known Bradley graduate, who is currently the Secretary of Transportation is embroiled in the middle of this and he's actually of the diametric opposite opinion as our president and feels it is a waste..

I would like high speed rail...and people do still ride trains. I was on one a couple weeks ago and I was surprised at how many people were on.

[tornado]

but I guarantee the route you rode isn't likely to ever see high speed improvements...
My own daughter rode the line from Mpls, to Milw, to Chgo, to Blomtn...and counting delays and holdovers....it took 12 hours just to get to Chicago...plus when she got to Chgo -- the last connection to Blmgtn had left so she was stuck and we had to drive up & get her!
(wasn't going to let he sleep in Union Station all night!)

So sure...I'd love to see a high speed improvement as well...but I am also aware enough to know that those routes wouldn't even be on the TOP 100 list of lines to rebuild as high speed/high cost....
all the lines for the first half century would go to NY, Wash. DC, east coast, west coast, FL, & maybe Chicago heading east...not one such route would ever likely serve me nor 50% of the nation's population.

[thefish7]

but I guarantee the route you rode isn't likely to ever see high speed improvements...
My own daughter rode the line from Mpls, to Milw, to Chgo, to Blomtn...and counting delays and holdovers....it took 12 hours just to get to Chicago...plus when she got to Chgo -- the last connection to Blmgtn had left so she was stuck and we had to drive up & get her!
(wasn't going to let he sleep in Union Station all night!)

So sure...I'd love to see a high speed improvement as well...but I am also aware enough to know that those routes wouldn't even be on the TOP 100 list of lines to rebuild as high speed/high cost....
all the lines for the first half century would go to NY, Wash. DC, east coast, west coast, FL, & maybe Chicago heading east...not one such route would ever likely serve me nor 50% of the nation's population.

This is the reason why investments are necessary. As much of a capitalist as I am... And I'm trend really far capitalist on economics, I don't believe private industry will effectively deploy rails. The biggest problem is making sure there's some competition and that the rails aren't managed by the government or one monopoly even while the government is investing. But having lived in countries that have quality rail transport I can say yes, I support rails and though we're behind it's about time to start catching up.

[tornado]

I agree only to the point where we decide whose money pays for it...

I think the days of government reaching into it's infinitely deep pockets for this stuff are over...
stop paying for the stuff like union perks, unneeded projects & pork, largely unnecessary giveaways and entitlements, bridges to nowhere, etc...and just run the government efficiently and let the people and private investors do this stuff if it's needed.

[houstontxbrave]

I agree only to the point where we decide whose money pays for it...

I think the days of government reaching into it's infinitely deep pockets for this stuff are over...
stop paying for the stuff like union perks, unneeded projects & pork, largely unnecessary giveaways and entitlements, bridges to nowhere, etc...and just run the government efficiently and let the people and private investors do this stuff if it's needed.

Eliminate special interest lobbyist and the garbage that makes decisions for elected officials stops... on top of that term limits for everyone at all levels of government.

[thefish7]

I agree only to the point where we decide whose money pays for it...

I think the days of government reaching into it's infinitely deep pockets for this stuff are over...
stop paying for the stuff like union perks, unneeded projects & pork, largely unnecessary giveaways and entitlements, bridges to nowhere, etc...and just run the government efficiently and let the people and private investors do this stuff if it's needed.

In general you'll get no disagreement from me... Except this is infrastructure, no different from a road. If things like roads were left to private industry/investors you couldn't get some places. The problem relates to how people invest. A reasonable businessman won't install an entire rail network on the bet that people will use it once its finished because the business case for that is very difficult to put together, and it WILL NOT be successful if you try to piecemeal it.

[canadian]

but I guarantee the route you rode isn't likely to ever see high speed improvements...
My own daughter rode the line from Mpls, to Milw, to Chgo, to Blomtn...and counting delays and holdovers....it took 12 hours just to get to Chicago...plus when she got to Chgo -- the last connection to Blmgtn had left so she was stuck and we had to drive up & get her!
(wasn't going to let he sleep in Union Station all night!)

So sure...I'd love to see a high speed improvement as well...but I am also aware enough to know that those routes wouldn't even be on the TOP 100 list of lines to rebuild as high speed/high cost....
all the lines for the first half century would go to NY, Wash. DC, east coast, west coast, FL, & maybe Chicago heading east...not one such route would ever likely serve me nor 50% of the nation's population.

I understand tornado. I think it would be hard to do in today's climate. I would like to see it however. I personally love riding the train. But its just a preference of mine.

[FlyingSpaghettiMonster]

but I guarantee the route you rode isn't likely to ever see high speed improvements...
My own daughter rode the line from Mpls, to Milw, to Chgo, to Blomtn...and counting delays and holdovers....it took 12 hours just to get to Chicago...plus when she got to Chgo -- the last connection to Blmgtn had left so she was stuck and we had to drive up & get her!
(wasn't going to let he sleep in Union Station all night!)

So sure...I'd love to see a high speed improvement as well...but I am also aware enough to know that those routes wouldn't even be on the TOP 100 list of lines to rebuild as high speed/high cost....
all the lines for the first half century would go to NY, Wash. DC, east coast, west coast, FL, & maybe Chicago heading east...not one such route would ever likely serve me nor 50% of the nation's population.

The Amtrak trains are inefficient and unreliable. One big issue is that they do not have track priority over freight trains. This would not be an issue with a dedicated high speed train. It is possible that a St. Louis to Chicago train would stop somewhere around Peoria, and I would use it. The northeast and California are major populations bases and trains could certainly serve 50% of the population. If the trend continues with more people moving to cities, then investing in this infrastructure would be move valuable in the future. High speed rail likely won't happen in the short term, but I would love to see it.

NASA has been responsible for many useful innovations. Investing in science is valuable. It is very difficult to predict where a discovery will be made that will affect daily life. I do not understand your disdain for space exploration and scientific inquiry. I'm including the following excerpt from Neil deGrasse Tyson as well as a link to the full article:

Because people are saying "why are you researching that when you should be finding a cure for my disease?". Okay, and I don't have a problem with that. But did you know that we diagnosed your disease using an MRI? And what is the physical principle behind the magnetic resonance imager? It came from a physicist who's an expert in atomic nuclei wondering how you would detect this...in interstellar space! Do you think that physicist, when he came up with this understanding of -- it's called nuclear magnetic resonance -- do you think he was saying to himself "one day we'll have machines that will diagnose the condition of the human body without cutting it open in advance"? Do you think this is what was going on in his head? Of course not! It came out of this curiosity-driven research. Do you think Einstein, when he wrote down his equations for stimulated emission of atoms, (that) he's saying to himself, "hey, one day this will be the foundation of a laser and we'll have bar coding"? Do you think this is on his -- "one day we'll have LASIK surgery"! No! No!

http://www.pagef30.com/2011/02/neil-degrasse-tyson-on-science-should.html

[Murph]

All you cavemen keep living in the past...Seriously though, the hatred most conservatives show towards President Obama tells me no matter what he would suggest would be wrong to them.

[tornado]

All you cavemen keep living in the past...Seriously though, the hatred most conservatives show towards President Obama tells me no matter what he would suggest would be wrong to them.

I see no hatred towards Obama -- but I do see a lot of dislike for his policies...giveaways, handouts, freebies, promises, nanny state, and no way to pay for any of them...
but then I am not alone -- a recent election showed a majority of voting Americans feel like I do and voted against Obama's policies...

[FlyingSpaghettiMonster]

I see no hatred towards Obama -- but I do see a lot of dislike for his policies...giveaways, handouts, freebies, promises, nanny state, and no way to pay for any of them...
but then I am not alone -- a recent election showed a majority of voting Americans feel like I do and voted against Obama's policies...

There is plenty to dislike about Obama's policies. LaHood has been involved with many policies that I disagree with as well. I am unaware of any politician with whom I completely agree. I don't agree with your statement that voters voted against Obama's policies. That statement may be true with the next Presidential election, but no strong Rep. candidate has emerged as of yet. Clinton was not popular at several points during his first term but won re-election fairly easily. Reagan also similarly had a 35% approval rating in 82 and very easily won re-election.

You got an answer to your original question. I do know quite a few people that have used trains on a semi-regular basis as well. Megabus is often a better alternative if available. Science and space exploration are important. NASA's 2010 budget was $18.7B. The defense budget was $663.7B.

If you want something to cut, eliminate the TSA. Zero terrorist caught. Millions of shoes inspected! Think of all of the lost money in time due to TSA delays beyond their own operating expenses.

[ChewaBrave]

Count me as a fan of high speed trains, and integrated public transportation in general.

[Murph]

Count me as a fan of high speed trains, and integrated public transportation in general.

If people had something decent to use maybe they would be more popular with travelers, I once used Amtrak to go to Denver and it sucks.