Big Mac admits to steroids

[Murph]

you decide...I doubt I think I am right any more often than you think you are right...but then that's you right

but I do note unbekannt did modify/change his statement from the original one he made...

note his first statement after I said it is not necessarily illegal to be for McGwire to take steroids was...
"Illegal in the US - yes"

but now he has amended his statement to...
"Steroids are illegal to take without a Rx"

ahhhh....now we're talking....so now we're getting somewhere....
if you could just amend the statement further to
"illegal to be in possession of without proper authorization or precription" then we will be in agreement

Do you have any real friends?

[tornado]

plenty- you need some??

[BradleyJD]

Is this appropriate for this board?

Come on Tornado.

[tornado]

I was asked a question - and answered even tho it was a little off topic...

I am not bothered when someone has an opinion that I don't share..but sure seems like others are...

[unbekannt]

you decide...I doubt I think I am right any more often than you think you are right...but then that's you right

but I do note unbekannt did modify/change his statement from the original one he made...

note his first statement after I said it is not necessarily illegal to be for McGwire to take steroids was...
"Illegal in the US - yes"

but now he has amended his statement to...
"Steroids are illegal to take without a Rx"

ahhhh....now we're talking....so now we're getting somewhere....
if you could just amend the statement further to
"illegal to be in possession of without proper authorization or precription" then we will be in agreement

I modified it because you seem to enjoy arguing a technicality. Please tell me how you can take steroids without possessing them? Once you take them, you are technically in possession of them.

Yes steroids are a controlled substance and are illegal without a Rx.

There are very few drugs that are completely illegal in the US. Steroids are completely legal in other countries without a Rx, however.

I really hope that you are a lawyer. Otherwise you missed your true calling. Unbelievable failure to admit defeat.

[Da Coach]

I modified it because you seem to enjoy arguing a technicality. Please tell me how you can take steroids without possessing them? Once you take them, you are technically in possession of them.

Yes steroids are a controlled substance and are illegal without a Rx.

There are very few drugs that are completely illegal in the US. Steroids are completely legal in other countries without a Rx, however.

I really hope that you are a lawyer. Otherwise you missed your true calling. Unbelievable failure to admit defeat.

I am not a lawyer, but I think the legal term "possession" is a different thing that if you were found to have them in your system.
It is possible to be using them without ever being in possession- doctors frequently treat people for hormonal deficiency states. Those doctors will prescribe steroid drugs, sometimes in pill form but they might inject their patients with steroids on a regular basis (yes, there are medical conditions where people are deficient in their natural steroids, and need supplementation on a regular basis). That person, though a user, would not ever be in legal possession of the steroids.

[tornado]

Oh my - at risk of people getting ticked off just by presenting facts and simple opinions....
defeat? I offered a simple challenge to anyone for a few examples of someone being prosecuted or charged with using drugs...
...still haven't seen one......I guess that makes me the victor??

it is possible to get caught possessing them and NOT take them, and it is possible to take them and NOT be caught in possession of them...so clearly those two actions are different even if you can't see the difference.

seriously...there really are cases of people being dismissed from jobs for using, losing their parole for using, or even being kicked off a D-I basketball team for simply using..(all of which are people who violate their agreements) but none of those people - NONE are charged as having broken a law...because they haven't other than to violate the agreement or contract.
...but I am still waiting for an example of someone who broke the law by using...

Maybe to some you can't "take steroids without possessing them" but we are discussing the law and as you might guess, the law cannot be vague -- it is instead very specific...

You are free to conclude that you are right and I am wrong, but since I do deal with these precise issues literally on a daily basis in my profession, and since I am required to know the facts and have even passed tests on these facts, I must disappoint you further by saying I cannot admit defeat.
all I ever said is there is no law that states you cannot take steroids...and I am right.

[tornado]

offered with no opinions...

two widely differing, mutually exclusive views on the steroid issue:

--Per Charles Barkley, Lou Pinella, etc..."McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens... should all be in HOF regardless of steroids"

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2010-01-13/charles-barkley-mcgwire-should-go-hall-fame-arenas-jokester

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/piniella-believes-mcgwire-will-make-hall-of-fame.html

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/cardinals/2010-01-07-adam-wainwright-mark-mcgwire_N.htm

--Per Ryne Sandberg, Goose Gossage, etc....NOPE -- Keep all those guys out of the Hall of Fame.......BAN them...

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=350322

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2010776462_base13.html

[ChewaBrave]

This board is brutal. Between this, and the ridiculousness of someone purposely ruining a meaningless forum poll, people would think there is absolutely nothing to do in the midwest... ohh wait.

[BuB]

Tornado,

It does sound like you are arguing a technicality. Under that reasoning has anybody who has taken say meth, or codeine, or marijuana over the past decade without getting caught in the act, broken the law? I think it is still against the law even though their is no witness or informant.

McGwire did not have a legal reason or right to take steroids. He gained an unfair advantage over players who played by the rules. Just because he did not fail a blood test or urine test does not mean he was innocent. I think part of the reason he wanted immunity from the hearings was because he knew he had no legal right to take steroids.

To me this sounds like Clinton and the definition of "is."

[ChewaBrave]

Hombres, Tornado is just arguing that there is no crime "under the influence of steroids". And too my knowledge he is correct. For instance, being heavily intoxicated in public even when not holding any alcohol is a crime, generally. But walking around 'under the influence' of steroids is not a crime. Sure, obtaining them illegally, and having them in your coat pocket is a crime, but having the junk in your veins isn't actually a crime. This is also true for most drugs. However, some states have put in place tricky laws to attack a lot of opiates, for instance, operating heavy machinery or an automobile while under the influence of an opiate is illegal. On that note, driving while on steroids is not. There are a whole host of laws that could affect him in certain situations thou: for instance, if he ever transported steroids, especially across state lines, or if he paid for them, and if he did, he more than likely didn't pay taxes on the illegally acquired steroids, etc etc. The fact is, the crimes aren't worth the effort to convict really, and it would be difficult to prove anyway.

What is abundantly clear if that he broke baseball law, and that is about it. There might be some possibility to arguing a civil matter due to contract infringement but i doubt it and it would depend a lot on exactly what it is they sign when they enter the major league.

At the end of the day, a guy just wanted to feel normal..... so he took horse steroids.

[tornado]

What is abundantly clear if that he broke baseball law,....

look, I know this is already a near-dead horse...but....

Mark McGwire retired and was completely done playing before major league baseball ever had a rule against anything he appears to have done...

In other words...no, he did not break any baseball rules, and even if some believe he broke the spirit of some yet-to-be-written rule, what is "baseball" going to do?
Remove his records? It might happen, but where do you draw the line...do you also remove the records of everyone else who is suspect....that could literally lead to the removal of almost all the baseball records over the past 2 decades...

This board is brutal. Between this, and.....

let's see, a disagreement over steroids, and a poll that got sabotaged by someone whose agenda was to make the site look bad...yup - those are a couple of huge landmark issues...
maybe some take discussion boards a bit too seriously...move away from the ledge....

[Braves4Life]

I do not blame McGuire, Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, or any of the others who used or may have used steroids. I blame The Commissioner and the owners. These guys knew what was going on and they looked the other way..... and as a result they ruined the game of baseball and the integrity of the record book.

[Beninator]

I do not blame McGuire, Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, or any of the others who used or may have used steroids. I blame The Commissioner and the owners. These guys knew what was going on and they looked the other way..... and as a result they ruined the game of baseball and the integrity of the record book.

But imo, baseball has always had a culture of cheating to get an edge over someone. Gaylord Perry with the spitball. etc etc I read an entry in the Bill James historical abstract about the Hillerich and Bradsby Company tour around the major league cities in the early1980's that showcased game- used bats from different players. When the tour was in Seattle, a couple of Mariner players discovered that the Babe Ruth bat was corked! I understand that steroids are a more serious concern than corked bats and spitballs, but the culture of owners etc looking the other way has existed in baseball for quite some time.

[ChewaBrave]

Fair enough, he didn't break baseball law. And I was just making a joke about the grittiness of this board.

Its all fine.