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Not really a suprise, but glad to see he came clean and can now focus on helping the cards this season.
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"How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal, and you have to be willing to work for it." - Jim Valvano -
IMO, his first step to try to get votes for the HOF.Bradley 72 - Illini 68 Final
???It??™s awful hard,??™??™ said Illini freshman guard D.J. Richardson, the former Central High School guard who played prep school ball a few miles from here and fought back tears outside the locker room. ???It??™s a hometown thing. It??™s bragging rights.??™ -
Yeah it should be interesting with him an Palmeiro both being on the ballot next year."How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal, and you have to be willing to work for it." - Jim ValvanoComment
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mcgwire + sosa = cheater and fraud.Comment
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was it illegal when he did it?
btw -- some insiders have testified to anywhere from 50% (Caminiti) to 80%-85% (Canseco)
of major leaguers have taken steroids...and done so regularly...and likely close to 100% of all the sluggers and power hitters.
and others with expertise have said for 15 years that this is almost certainly the case looking at the body habitus
and performances of the players......
so - I guess I have to wonder just who this surprises?? and why have people been so reluctant to accept
that most of MLB is doing it instead of thinking of it as a rarity?Comment
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Illegal in baseball - noOriginally posted by tornado View Postwas it illegal when he did it?
btw -- some insiders have testified to anywhere from 50% (Caminiti) to 80%-85% (Canseco)
of major leaguers have taken steroids...and done so regularly...and likely close to 100% of all the sluggers and power hitters.
and others with expertise have said for 15 years that this is almost certainly the case looking at the body habitus
and performances of the players......
so - I guess I have to wonder just who this surprises?? and why have people been so reluctant to accept
that most of MLB is doing it instead of thinking of it as a rarity?
Illegal in the US - yes
He's not getting in the HOF. Baseball writers are 8---> heads. Just look at Jay Mariotti.
Baseball is barely a sport IMO, and I don't have a big problem with steroids in baseball.JL are not respunsible foor the string of injunrys....Comment
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Agreed, I can't decide whats more fun to do, watch grass grow, paint dry or baseball.Originally posted by unbekannt View PostComment
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illegal in the US?...well, we will get into a semantic issue, but steroids in and of themselves are NOT illegal and.......taking them is NOT illegal...
not by a long shot...but therein lies a fairly tricky issue...
that there are a lot of things about steroids that ARE illegal,
but just taking them is NOT!!
The taking of some "steroids" is not only fully legal, but actually somewhat common....if properly prescribed under medical supervision, and taken from legitimate suppliers and sources such as pharmacies.
In fact lots of women are given commonly available anabolic steroids after pregnancy just to prevent painful lactation if they have already decided they are not going to nurse..and some people with muscular and bone marrow disorders are given anabolic steroids for their conditions, and millions of men take various forms of testosterone in shots, patches, etc...for hormone replacement all quite legally!
but I do concede that the use of anabolic steroids, in a medically unsupervised fashion, purely for the result of getting bigger or improved athletic performance is quite unadvised and unethical with the medical profession, but I really doubt it is illegal most places....
............which of course explains why most guys like Bonds, Canseco, McGwire...have never been arrested nor ever been in jail..
the illegal issue here is threefold...
--if you sign an agreement or testify that you are not using them, then it's found out you lied (especially under oath), then that, of course, is illegal. (this is the issue of perjury that got Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, etc. into trouble)
--if you are engaged in the illegal and unlicensed manufacture, supply, delivery, sale, etc...of steroids, then you have likely broken some laws (the Balco people were NOT licensed to make or sell them and thus they broke plenty of laws)
--if you defraud someone in this regard by using the drugs to win competitions
Take note, that perhaps the MOST prominently punished athlete in this regard was Marion Jones...but her violation was that she lied to TWO grand juries who were investigating the illegal manufacture of the drugs...and she was NEVER prosecuted for taking them...and I doubt many ever have.
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Definitely not a surprise but as bad as this may sound, it may have been a good thing for baseball that McGwire and Sosa did use steroids because they put together a home run chase (albeit on juice) that sparked interest in baseball. For a while interest in baseball was dwindling and that home run chase created interest in baseball and sort of brought the game back to life.Originally posted by DeltaBrave03 View Post
I'm not a proponent of steroids, but they still have to hit the ball and with pitches coming at over 90 mph that is not easy to do. McGwire was a great player and he would've been a great player even if he wasn't on juice.Comment
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[QUOTE=tornado;157744]was it illegal when he did it?
Yes, it was illegal when he did it. MLB has called out steroids for years. Even if wasn't illegal, isn't it enough that he artificially enhanced his body/strength with drugs, many of which were illegally purchased? Players who cheated in the 80s and 90s destroyed the statistical continuity of baseball as we recognize that players of previous generations performed naturally.Comment
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Originally posted by DUBrave5 View Post
Couldn't agree more they saved baseball period. No matter how much they're hurting it now, if it hadn't been for '98 very few would even care that baseball was still around."How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal, and you have to be willing to work for it." - Jim ValvanoComment
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I think you'd have a very hard time showing evidence as such...Originally posted by doug shank's crossover View Post
--again..taking them was not illegal..only the manufacture, distribution, or sale when unlicensed
-basically the same laws that prohibit the making and/or selling of home made drugs or even booze....
--and baseball didn't ban the drugs McGwire admits to using until 2002, but Mac retired in 2001 - he never violated the league's drug policy, since the league was light years behind in getting something serious done.
But I have been an outspoken and vocal opponent of steroids and their use since before McGwire ever started taking them...I think they should have been banned long ago and stiff penalties in place for their use...
but unfortunately many did not take the issue seriously and maybe some didn't want to lose key players and the very sluggers the fans were paying to see.
Baseball and all sports have a dilemma.... what about all the records set in the steroid era...?
Many baseball, football, weightlifting, etc...records are on the books courtesy of drug use...and it's virtually impossible to know which ones are and are not.
Even drug testing won't help that much, as it's been shown that there are quite successful ways for the takers to beat the system.
The small percentages of players caught with testing represents only a small amount of the guys using them.
It's a dilemma...but it's ironic that it comes up only now...decades after most intellgent people knew full well that Caminiti and Canseco were telling the truth but some pretended it wasn't so because of the $$ involved.Comment
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Posts by some faithful Cardinal fans......
Big Mac - Made a fool out of a lot of faithful fans. He is a first ballot Hall of Shamer! All my memorabilia will go in the garbage just like his career! Can't Believe the Cardinals will allow a cheating liar to represent them as a hitting coach! What's that say about Tony? What's that say to the fans who have supported the Birds for generations?
I won't say surprised, just gave him the benefit of the doubt until proven. My main point is, why not admit it when it first was brought up? He wasn't talking to Congress as a person being accused. He could have come out then and made a strong case to children about the use of steroids. And the cop out of doing it because he was hurt is ... See More bull$hit! He has a right to work, how about volunteering as a public servant against steroid use? He surely doesn't need the money. Stole enough of that from fans with his big contracts!
I took my sons to the game when he broke the record. Thought we witnessed history and have had that taken away from us. My wife and I went to a game 3 years ago and when Bonds came to bat, the Cardinal fans booed profusely. Will those fans do the same when Mac walks onto the field or will they stand and cheer him?
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One of the biggest Cardinal fans you'll find here..
While I am disappointed in him if he knew he was "cheating", I frankly have never been one to care about the steroid era.Comment
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