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Cardinals offseason thread!

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  • Cardinals offseason thread!

    Cardinals supposedly closing in on signing Matt Holliday....

    Bradley Basketball... One Tradition; Underachievement. 2008-Current.

  • #2
    $98.5 million dollars for 5 (or 6) years?!
    That amount is about $25 million dollars more than Albert Pujols has made in his entire career! Pujols' salary last year was just $14 million, and he's the best player in baseball.
    Holliday had a really nice 63-game partial-season with the Cards last year (.353, 13, 55). But he is not going to put those kinds of numbers up for a full season. Recall that he only hit .286 with 11 HR and 54 RBI in 93 games with the Oakland A's. And he will never be confused with a Gold Glove outfielder.
    I never thought I'd see the Cards throw around money like the Yankees and Red Sox. What is Albert worth? What will the tickets cost, since the Cards don't have a lucrative TV deal like the Yanks, Red Sox, and Cubs?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Da Coach View Post
      $98.5 million dollars for 5 (or 6) years?!
      That amount is about $25 million dollars more than Albert Pujols has made in his entire career! Pujols' salary last year was just $14 million, and he's the best player in baseball.
      Holliday had a really nice 63-game partial-season with the Cards last year (.353, 13, 55). But he is not going to put those kinds of numbers up for a full season. Recall that he only hit .286 with 11 HR and 54 RBI in 93 games with the Oakland A's. And he will never be confused with a Gold Glove outfielder.
      I never thought I'd see the Cards throw around money like the Yankees and Red Sox. What is Albert worth? What will the tickets cost, since the Cards don't have a lucrative TV deal like the Yanks, Red Sox, and Cubs?
      Pujols' old contract was made 7 years ago at market price for an up and comer. His new contract will outweigh Holliday's new contract. However, it will not be an exorbitant amount. Pujols wants to stay in St. Louis, and signing Holliday will only go forward to keeping him. I guarantee he will give a hometown discount.

      And lets be honest DC...throwing around money like the Yankees or Red Sox? With Holliday's contract, our total salary will not exceed 110 million. This will still be at least 25 million less than the Cubs and will maybe put us in the top 10 highest team salaries for the first time in years.


      Edit....Also, Pujols current deal was 7 years/100 million with a team option..so technically 8 years/115 million. So I don't mean to be argumentative, but that deal is not more than Pujols has made in his lifetime.
      Walk on, Walk on
      With hope in your hearts,
      and You'll Never Walk Alone

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Fyrebyrd View Post
        our total salary will not exceed 110 million.
        exactly what i was about to say.


        Anyway, I would imagine signing Pujols for 16-19 Mil per year for probably 7 years.
        Bradley Basketball... One Tradition; Underachievement. 2008-Current.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Fyrebyrd View Post
          Edit....Also, Pujols current deal was 7 years/100 million with a team option..so technically 8 years/115 million. So I don't mean to be argumentative, but that deal is not more than Pujols has made in his lifetime.
          Here is where I got that figure-
          Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Albert Pujols. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com


          Scroll down to near the bottom where it lists his salaries for every year in MLB. This shows he has earned about $75 million total over his career.-

          SALARY
          2001 St. Louis Cardinals $200,000
          2002 St. Louis Cardinals $600,000
          2003 St. Louis Cardinals $900,000
          2004 St. Louis Cardinals $7,000,000
          2005 St. Louis Cardinals $11,000,000
          2006 St. Louis Cardinals $14,000,000
          2007 St. Louis Cardinals $12,937,813
          2008 St. Louis Cardinals $13,870,949
          2009 St. Louis Cardinals $14,427,326
          Career (may be incomplete) $74,936,088

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          • #6
            ok...ya my mistake. The 7th year was the option year, I assumed it was the 8th.
            Walk on, Walk on
            With hope in your hearts,
            and You'll Never Walk Alone

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Fyrebyrd View Post
              ok...ya my mistake. The 7th year was the option year, I assumed it was the 8th.
              Pujols signed a 7 year $100 million deal, with the club option for 2011 which would make it $111 million. So I am confused, as the numbers just dont seem to add up.
              Bradley Basketball... One Tradition; Underachievement. 2008-Current.

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              • #8
                I heard from a source over the weekend the official announcement will come Wednesday or Thursday. But nothing official yet.

                The problem with the Holliday deal is.. when you re-sign Pujols for more than Holliday.. then figure in the next year or two you have to pony up money for Wainwright and Carpenter you will have 4 guys earning 60% of your total budget. That doesn't leave a lot of cash for the other 20 guys.

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                • #9
                  cards payroll.. and interesting read

                  How the payroll puzzle comes together for the Cardinals
                  By Jeff Gordon
                  STLTODAY.COM SPORTS COLUMNIST
                  Tuesday, Jan. 05 2010
                  How could the Cardinals offer Matt Holliday top dollar while sticking to a $100
                  million budget?

                  There are three reasons: The elimination of dead payroll money (finally!), the
                  healthy supply of young (cheap) players and the presence of freebie Julio Lugo.
                  Better money management and player development created this opportunity.

                  A year ago, the Cards had almost a quarter of their season-starting payroll
                  sunk into the Ghost of Troy Glaus (useless after shoulder surgery), poor Khalil
                  Greene (victim of anxiety disorder) and Adam Kennedy (paid to play elsewhere).

                  Those financial commitments are long gone now, to owner Bill DeWitt??™s
                  considerable relief. Shedding that burden gave general manager John Mozeliak
                  the ability to ride out the Holliday sweepstakes.

                  Equally helpful was the organization??™s large supply of young players in their
                  pre-arbitration stage. These guys can fill key lineup spots and offer bench
                  support, bullpen depth and starting pitching protection at minimal pay.

                  Center fielder Colby Rasmus should be an impact player this season. So should
                  shortstop Brendan Ryan and late-inning reliever Jason Motte.

                  Blake Hawksworth could help again. So could Tyler Greene, Mitchell Boggs, David
                  Freese and Jaime Garcia. None would cost much.

                  Although Tony La Russa wasn??™t thrilled to have so much inexperience at one time
                  last season, the growth of younger players made it easier for Mozeliak to stick
                  with the Holliday bid.

                  The Lugo acquisition factors in, too. He is a $9.25 million player working on
                  the Red Sox dime. He added an offensive spark last season while playing
                  multiple positions.

                  La Russa likes versatile veterans and Lugo provides that at almost no cost.
                  Sweet!

                  All these factors would allow Mozeliak to afford Holliday while making
                  additional moves to round out his roster. Look at how the puzzle is coming
                  together:


                  STARTING POSITION PLAYERS

                  Albert Pujols, $16 million. The Cards will exercise his option for 2011. And
                  the franchise will try to extend his contract long before then -??“ even if it
                  costs them some up front money. Mozeliak has been careful not to offer too many
                  players too much long-term money.

                  Ryan Ludwick, arbitration eligible (made $3.7 million last season). He is
                  hitting the crossroads of his career. He is due for another nice raise -??“ and a
                  long-term deal, either from the Cards or his next team. This future earning
                  power could also make him a trade target, if other players progress.

                  Yadier Molina, $4.3 million. His money rises next season, too, then he heads
                  toward free agency. Look for the Cards to extend him before he gets that far.
                  He is in that handful of players DeWitt and Co. are willing to commit to.

                  Skip Schumaker, arbitration eligible (made $430,000 last year). His shift to
                  second base greatly increases his value to the Cards -??“ and his potential
                  earning power.

                  Rasmus, minimum range. Coming off a solid rookie season, he figures to add
                  decent productivity at a modest price for years to come. He is a big key to
                  balancing the ???10 budget.

                  Ryan, minimum range. His brilliant defensive play makes him the everyday choice
                  to defend the left side. He may never become a ???plus??? offensive player at his
                  position, but he could hit for average and add some speed.

                  Freese, minimum range. Off-field problems threaten to derail his Cards career
                  before it really starts. That is a shame, because he figured to offer solid
                  production at low money for years to come, a la Schumaker.


                  STARTING ROTATION

                  Chris Carpenter, $14.5 million. The Cards have him signed through 2011, when he
                  will make $15 million. If he stays healthy -??“ and remains a Cy Young candidate
                  -- it could take bigger money to extend him past that. Cards management would
                  be delighted to face that dilemma in two years.

                  Kyle Lohse, $9.2 million. Dave Duncan needs to get him back on track. Lohse??™s
                  pay jumps past $12 million in 2011 and 2012 and the Cards would hate to see him
                  fall into the dreaded ???dead money??? category.

                  Brad Penny, $7.5 million. He could make another $1.5 million if he can manage
                  to pitch 204 innings. That will be a bargain if he stays healthy and seizes the
                  No. 3 slot. This was a classic one-year pitching bet. Penny hopes to turn a
                  bounce-back season into big long-term money on his next deal.

                  Adam Wainwright, $4.84 million. His money soars after this year. The club holds
                  options on him in 2012 and '13 for a total of $21 million. Buying into Adam??™s
                  free agency was a smart investment, as we saw last season. He is positioned to
                  succeed Carpenter as the franchise ace.

                  Garcia, minimum range. Duncan remains to be sold on him. Remember all the
                  Anthony Reyes hubbub? That kid just couldn??™t stay healthy. And Reyes couldn??™t
                  stay healthy in Cleveland, either. If Garcia holds up, he could give the
                  rotation a badly needed lefty presence. Or he could add a lefty middle reliever
                  to the 'pen.


                  BULLPEN

                  Ryan Franklin, $3 million. He will get another shot at closing. His deal
                  (which pays him $3.5 million in 2011) isn??™t so large that the Cards will HAVE
                  to keep him in the closing role if he struggles. Given his earlier success as a
                  set-up guy, this was a solid investment.

                  Trever Miller, $2 million. The Cards scaled him back to a one-year deal in 2009
                  after becoming concerned about his shoulder. Miller held up fine and earned
                  that second year back. That was a sound investment for the team.

                  Dennys Reyes, $2 million. He disappointed last season, but durable lefties are
                  hard to find. Duncan will find a way to get a better pay-off this year.

                  Josh Kinney, arbitration eligible (made $405,000 last year). He needs to pitch
                  his way back into the team??™s plans. Coming back from surgical repairs have
                  proven to be an arduous process. He must relocate his command to earn a job.

                  Kyle McClellan, minimum range. He has proven durable the last two years. But
                  can he become more of a shutdown reliever? He is still early in his career, so
                  there is time for him to sharpen his stuff.

                  Motte, minimum range. He is still working to improve his command and secondary
                  pitches. For a shade over $400,000 next season, the Cards can remain patient
                  with this project.

                  Hawksworth, minimum range. The perennial prospect finally paid off as a middle
                  reliever. He even moved closer to a set-up role, based on his reliability. But
                  he is just a low-cost depth guy until he proves otherwise.

                  Boggs, minimum range. He, too, will need better command to hang in the majors
                  this season. But he is just low-cost depth for middle relief or the rotation.

                  Eduardo Sanchez, minimum range: The loss of Chris Perez in the Mark DeRosa
                  rental created a long-range opening in short relief. This hard thrower rose
                  fast last summer to move to the front burner.

                  BENCH

                  Lugo. Maybe he won??™t help as much as he did during the latter stages of last
                  season, but he costs nothing. He has to be a plus, right?

                  Jason LaRue, $950,000. He re-signed to back up Molina. Given his improved
                  offense and proven ability to work with this staff, this was money well spent.

                  Allen Craig, minimum range. He can (sort of) play the corner infield and
                  outfield spots and he can really, REALLY hit minor league pitching. He is
                  overdue to get his shot at big league pitching. He could become a nice asset.

                  Tyler Greene, minimum range. He might still be the shortstop of the future. He
                  is a great athlete, a versatility defender (even playing center field in an
                  emergency) and offers both speed and power potential. In the near term, he can
                  fill in as a utility guy.

                  Nick Stavinoha, minimum range. He proved he can pinch hit. He is willing to get
                  behind the plate in emergencies. He is a handy extra player.

                  Jon Jay, minimum range. He offers some center field defensive protection. He
                  has a decent bat, gap power potential and a little speed.

                  According to our favorite Internet databank, Cot??™s Baseball Contracts, the
                  Cards have about $64.3 million committed for 2010, sans Holliday.

                  That figure also excluded Ludwick and Schumaker, two players who will score
                  bigger money -??“ either through arbitration or new negotiated deals. Nor did it
                  include Penny??™s incentive money.

                  That also excluded all the minimum-wage Cards competing for jobs in the lineup,
                  bench, rotation and bullpen. Those guys will average about $425,000 a pop when
                  they make the team.

                  So . . . even if Mozeliak closes the Holliday deal, the Cards will have a few
                  million left over to spend on another starting pitcher, a lefty hitter,
                  third-base protection (old friend Felipe Lopez?) and/or a veteran reliever.

                  Many bargains remain in the marketplace. Mozeliak should find enough odds and
                  ends to please his coaching staff. He has some leverage to make some minor
                  deals, too.

                  La Russa would have to lean on some younger players again in 2010, but the
                  tradeoff -??“ getting Holliday back in the clean-up spot -??“ would make that
                  adventure worthwhile.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Simply put the Cards need someone to protect Pujols and there is only one guy out there as a FA that is worth it.
                    "Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...they are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
                    ??” Thomas Jefferson
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                    • #11
                      Holliday, the FA few thought the Cards had a chance to resign is back. Rumor I am hearing now however is that the yankees want Pujols as the DH. I would assume the cardinals will for all practical purposes give pujols a blank check, and will be done well before Pujols hits anything close to the open market.
                      Bradley Basketball... One Tradition; Underachievement. 2008-Current.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BU_EMT128 View Post
                        signing Pujols for 16-19 Mil per year for probably 7 years.
                        errr, i will correct that to 22-24mil for 7 years
                        Bradley Basketball... One Tradition; Underachievement. 2008-Current.

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                        • #13
                          The only uniform Albert should ever wear should be one with birds on the bat. I'm all about giving him a blank check and maybe he can lead us to another title while the Northsiders cry in their Old Style.

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                          • #14
                            All of these moves in the last 6 months show me one thing. The cardinals are serious about winning. No more "we will see if we can squeeze the extraordinary out of the average". Gone are the days of the cheap-ass cardinals, and I like where we are headed.
                            Bradley Basketball... One Tradition; Underachievement. 2008-Current.

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                            • #15
                              Cards sign Skip to a two year extension worth a guaranteed 4.7 mil. I love this kid and he is worth every penny of what we're paying him.
                              "How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal, and you have to be willing to work for it." - Jim Valvano

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