ESPN: Bradley is 101st Most Prestigious BBall Program

[squirrel]

BU could've been a bit higher if not for the 1987 NCAA ban.

[Da Coach]

Also, scheduling more cupcakes to achieve 20+ win seasons and fewer losing seasons would have helped a lot, too.

Hey, moving to the Atlantic Sun Conference would probably have allowed Bradley to move into the top 50!

[georgethedog]

There is a fatal flaw, and it is obvious that they are subjective...

They have schools like UW-Green Bay, Arkansas-Little Rock, and yes, even ISU ranked right there where Bradley is.

Just what kind of post season success have those guys had??

BU Won an NCAA game in 1986, losing only to the eventual NCAA Champm and giving Louisville literally the toughest game they had,
and BU has had some consideable NCAA, NIT, and CBI success since.

Can someone rattle off for me a bit of the post-season successes of UW-Green Bay, Arkansas-Little Rock, and ISU?

If you really want a laffer...note that only 10 spots below BU is South Carolina State, a school whose RPI and SOS have been above 300 since they invented those terms, and who play in the MEAC, the worst conference of all time, that's never been rated any higher than 30th strongest conference in America!!

I know UW-Green Bay had a nice run in the late 80's with Tony Bennett & his dad Dick running the team. They squashed the Jason Kidd Cal team in the NCAA one of those years. After Dicky left they have not done much. I would rate them over the other two you mentioned.

[Da Coach]

In addition to the huge difference in RPIs between Bradley and ETSU, I thought I would look at the Strength of Schedule for the 2 schools over the past 10 seasons. And the difference is even more drastic.
Again, the ESPN article does not consider either SOS or RPI, but only the number of seasons with 20 or more wins, and the number of losing seasons, and conference titles, etc. It stands to reason that if a school has a weaker schedule or they play in a weaker conference, they will appear much more "prestigious" on the ESPN list--

NCAA-calculated Strength of Schedule
Year.....BU...ETSU
2008....75....200
2007....21....267
2006....50....305
2005....81....210
2004...156....208
2003...114....189
2002...128....169
2001...123....257
2000....50....240
1999....75....233
Avg.....87.....228

As can be seen, East Tennessee State's strength of schedule in it's best year was 169, which is still worse than Bradley's SOS in it's absolute worst year! Yet all the geniuses at ESPN count are the wins!

One more comparison--
Here are the RPI rankings for the Missouri Valley, versus the conference that ETSU played in. Thye have been in the Atlantic Sun for the past 3 years (2008, 2007, and 2006), and prior to that they were in the Southern Conference (2005 and earlier).

Year....MVC....Atlantic Sun/Southern
2008....8.........29
2007....6.........27
2006....6.........29
2005....8.........20
2004...11........19
2003...12........20
2002...14........16
2001...12........23
2000...11........22
1999....8........19

Again seen is that the MVC has been a much tougher conference every year out of the last 10 years, and I guarantee that trend would also continue if we looked farther back.

[Da Coach]

then just how does ETSU still get ranked ahead of us?

It's simply because playing in the weaker conferences with weak SOS's have allowed for them to avoid losing seasons, rack up 20+ win seasons, and conference championships.

I do not mean to offend any ETSU fans, or diss their team. They will be pretty good this year, and the game at Bradley will not be an easy one. But there is no way by comparing the tradition and history of the 2 schools that anyone would rank ETSU ahead of Bradley, except by the silly contrived manner that ESPN did it which completely ignores who the teams play, and the strengths of schedules and conferences.

[mportsch]

I find this countdown very interesting, as at least they are using objective criteria instead of just eyeballing it (which is what I'm used to seeing from ESPN). You certainly can argue that the criteria should be assigned different point values, and I do agree that the lack of schedule strength as a consideration results in some smaller programs (with consistently weak schedules) rating too high, but overall it's really interesting to see how the numbers come out.

Tornado, note that NIT bids actually count for the same amount as NCAA tournament bids. The place where an NIT doesn't make the same impact is that NIT wins don't add anything, unless you win the whole thing, whereas NCAA wins become increasingly more valuable as you advance. Honestly, I think that makes sense if you're trying to measure 'prestige' - wins in the NCAA tournament do wonders for a team's national prestige, while NIT wins don't carry the same clout. I don't think anyone was particularly impressed with Ohio State's season after they won the NIT, but a Sweet 16 run would have made more people take notice.

A postseason ban is weighted enough to totally negate three NCAA tournament bids, so it's not insignificant.

[ETSUfan1]

LOL you guys are riled up. I love it! As far as the strength of schedule goes, its not our fault that teams in our league suck. We just can line up and win a game on a given day. It's not easy to win 20 games no matter what league you are in. Now here's something I have never understood. Why is the MVC ranked so freaking high every year? I've always thought it was a bit overkill to put them in the top 5 leagues in America. Just my opinion...

[MacabreMob]

Why is the MVC ranked so freaking high every year? I've always thought it was a bit overkill to put them in the top 5 leagues in America. Just my opinion...

Who ranked the MVC in the top 5 leagues in America?

[ETSUfan1]

I remember seeing it in the RPI one year. Maybe it was 6th, but I was baffled.

[Da Coach]

In 2007 the MVC ended up the 6th highest rated conference, but was 5th for most of the year. They ended just barely behind the Big 12 for 5th.

http://kenpom.com/confrank.php?y=2007

The reason is not simple. Some people accuse the MVC of some sinister plot to "beat the system" or "crack the code" of the RPI. But it mainly relates to playing strong out-of-conference schedules, even if the schools have to play an inordinate number of those games on the road, and winning a share of those games.

[thefish7]

LOL you guys are riled up. I love it! As far as the strength of schedule goes, its not our fault that teams in our league suck. We just can line up and win a game on a given day. It's not easy to win 20 games no matter what league you are in. Now here's something I have never understood. Why is the MVC ranked so freaking high every year? I've always thought it was a bit overkill to put them in the top 5 leagues in America. Just my opinion...

I'm just glad we have something to be riled up about during the summer. Makes it pass a bit quicker. Anyway, I've enjoyed the back and forth ETSUfan1... And you're right not to back down. A lot of the fans on this board have a big chip on their shoulder about the "power/BCS conferences" and bristle whenever fans from one of those teams "talk down" at us (which, btw, is certainly some of what we've been doing on here to ETSU).

I expect BU to destroy ETSU when they come to town, but anything can happen in a given game, and I'm not one to tempt the basketball gods with a whole bunch of hubris. Direct comparisons between the history, league, roster, whatever between BU and ETSU would give an "edge" to BU, but who cares? We should all love and root for our teams... And if I was an ETSU guy and read some of what's been said here, I'd stick up for my own too. So for what it's worth, I hope you: enjoy the game, have a nice stay in Peoria if you come up, and end up sorely disappointed after a major defeat.

[Gwright]

I was going to blow this whole ETSU thing off on account of them being another MD-ES or FA-GC and ignore them. But, I noticed that ya'll went into Georgia and threw them a beating last year. I was impressed, then I realized we were talking about basketball and not football.

You ask why the MVC is rated so highly? I've a hunch you find out when your boys come to play on a Valley team's home floor in non-conference. Here's a hint, we've lost 2 games in the non-conference schedule playing at home... in 5 years.

[Stryker]

And the MVC almost always has at least one, sometimes two teams that ranked throughout or at one point in every season, at least one team sometimes two at least getting to the sweet 16, and an extremely tough non-conference schedule. The MVC isn't a pushover when it comes to basketball. Our conference tournament is also a major deal in St. Louis every year, outstripping many BCS conferences in attendance figures, including the Big 10 and the ACC two years ago.

[Bradleyguy10]

I was going to blow this whole ETSU thing off on account of them being another MD-ES or FA-GC and ignore them. But, I noticed that ya'll went into Georgia and threw them a beating last year. I was impressed, then I realized we were talking about basketball and not football.

You ask why the MVC is rated so highly? I've a hunch you find out when your boys come to play on a Valley team's home floor in non-conference. Here's a hint, we've lost 2 games in the non-conference schedule playing at home... in 5 years.

Both of those loses were last year against VCU and Mich. St.

if you go back 1 more season to the 02-03 season then it goes up to 5 loses..

going back to 2000 the number increases to 8

8 home losses against nonconf. opponents in the last 8 seasons...

[TheAsianSensation]

ETSU is a low major.

Now - they are probably one of the better low-major programs out there, to be fair. I don't think it's fair to bash them too hard on their status. They hold their own. I don't think you can put them in the same category as most of the rest of the low majors.

FYI - The Valley is a perennial Top 8 league now. In any given year, we should never be worse than 9th (if the A-10 or MWC has a better year, so be it). But we're at the point that anything worse than that is a really bad year.