Indiana State Gets a Verbal - 6-11 Center

[tornado]

Josh Crawford was a kid recruited to Iowa by Steve Alford, and was in way over his head at the Big Ten level, so he went to juco.
He is a California native, so not sure why he chose InSU.

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_story_126134718.html?keyword=topstory

This news story says he averaged 18 pts, 12 rebs...but other sources cite figures far lower...
like 13-14 ppg, 9 rpg and 60% from FT, 49% from the field
one more word about him is that he still weights about 190...

http://www.littlerocktrojans.com/board/board_entry.php?id=39273&page=4&category=all&order=last_answer&descasc=DESC

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2008/mar/30/stars-mens-college-basketball-team/

[Da Coach]

This sounds like they don't expect Valparaiso transfer Bryan Bouchie to come to In. State.

[SycamoreFanatic]

We still have room for Bouchie. He has to lay out a year you know. Crawford can play now.

[tornado]

I think we can definitely throw some doubt on those 18 ppg/12 rpg stats that were cited in the above article.

Here is the official stats site for the conference

http://www.coasports.org/Basketball/Men/statistics.asp

You have to select the "WESTERN STATE-NORTH DIVISION" and work your way to the stats but here is what you find.......

Leaders by Average Points Pos G FG 3FG FT Points PPG High Game
8. Josh Crawford, Oxnard (So) F 30 168 0 99 435 14.5 28

which shows that Crawford was the 8th leading scorer in the North Division of his conference.
Oxnard was 17-14 for the season and Crawford ended up with
14.5 points per game, no 3-pointers.
By the way, in each of the preceding TWO seasons, Yuba's Mareceo Rutledge led his entire conference in scoring with 22.7 and 19.2 ppg, and then when he went to UNLV this past season, he found it hard to even break into the lineup and get playing time, and scored only 3 ppg. Thus I am not blown away by a juco who averaged 14.5 ppg just yet!

[Chico]

Tornado, then you must not have been impressed by many of our Juco recruits which we were happy to get. IMO, Indiana St is in our conference so I hope they can bring in someone who can help them. Can't figure out all the negativity about other team's recruits.

[tornado]

I am impressed when I am impressed...but these numbers coming from a junior college player are about as impressive as all those numbers Billy Baptist and DeAaron Williams were putting up...and despite the "rave reviews" and glowing predictions some people gave those guys, I said all along that I was not impressed then either. In the end, who was right?

I think I have done a pretty good job showing how incredibly few junior college kids have a real impact at the D-I level, and I don't just back it up with hype. Here are the links..........

http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4250

http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1711

http://www.bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8322

http://www.bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8299

Bradley has had better luck than most schools and has gotten nice contributions from several junior college kids, and ISU & Creighton did this past year, also.
I would love for you to cite a few other examples, because they really do drop off fast from there.
Missouri State beat us out for Wade Knapp, but he's been a huge disappointment, as have Illinois' Rodney Alexander, and virtually all of the rest of the Valley jucos and jucos on other local teams (like Mantas Griskenas (Wichita) & the highly touted Matija Pocsic of DePaul).

I think I have reason to be a bit skeptical of Indiana State's Josh Crawford.
He was neither highly regarded nor highly rated, and certainly wasn't recruited very hard out of high school. Iowa's Steve Alford found himself with an extra scholarship in August of 2006 and gambled by offering Crawford who basically had no other D-I offers and was literally set to go D-II or juco.
He was only 1-Star rated (almost unheard-of for a Big Ten school to go after a 1-Star, unless he's a "sleeper"), but he quickly proved he was NO SLEEPER, as at 7-ft, 180, he had only been playing basketball for two years, that's why nobody else had offered.
In the only season at Iowa, he declined to redshirt, then only played in 11 games, netting a grand total of 6 points and 6 rebounds, for embarrassing averages of 0.5 ppg, 0.5 rpg.
Then in his only juco season, his numbers were OK, but I am simply not impressed, as every junior college in the nation has at least one and usually more players who put up 14 ppg!
Like I say......I remain skeptical that he will have an impact at this level, and if he performs impressively, then I will change my mind and be impressed.

[Chico]

Tornado, I know what you are getting at, but that's just my point. We were all happy to get Zach and Boogie because they were hyped, as all new recruits are. If I'm not mistaken, one of our Juco recruits for this coming season averaged less than 14.5 per game. But we can' wait for him to get here. If Indiana St's recruit fails, that's their problem, not ours.

[tornado]

The incoming juco recruit we have has been described as one of the most athletic recruits JL has seen.
That alone allows a little leeway in viewing the guy's stats, since once he's here, JL can use that athleticism.
But, height alone at the D-I level isn't going to help as guys like James Baptist, and SIU's 7-2 Kooby Acquah showed. A guy that big is going to easily grab 6-8 rebounds and get a few points just by standing there doing nothing while playing at the juco level against a bunch of opponents who will never see a D-I court.

[daPAWW1]

Juco Luck!

Although I'm not a big fan of JUCO recruiting vs 4 yr players, probably for all the reasons noted in 'T's' posts, I would have to admit that Bradley has been very lucky (or skilled) in our recruitment of JUCOs and obviously our only Les-NCAA year would never have happened without them! So even if only 20-25% of the JUCO kids contribute (i.e. Wilson) the risk for Bradley and other mid majors is still worth taking! As to IndSU I hope the kid works out for them - as they say you can't teach 6-11 - you know Collins was worth the risk and he may yet pan out, better luck next time!

Good post 'T'

[tornado]

But getting "lucky" means that BU has recruited the very athletic guys out of junior college, like Boogie,
Zach Andrews, Theron Wilson, etc........ Jim Les has targeted kids with tremendous athleticism, jumping ability, etc., and those are commodities that can always be used at the D-I level.
Sure, height is also a valuable commodity, but it has to be teamed with a certain degree of athleticism.

[Chico]

Tornado, my point was that you said you weren't blown away yet a Juco who averaged 14.5 ppg. I hope the kid is good enough to help Indiana St.

[tornado]

Chico-- I am pleased the Valley is getting better players, I think than ever before. All State kids like Cole Holmstrom aren't even getting the playingtime because the coaches are going wherever it takes (California jucos, Texas, etc..) to get higher caliber players.
We actually have a couple 4-star players in the Valley now and numerous 3-star player.....and just 10-15 years ago, even a single recruit of this caliber was an oddity in the Valley.
I do wish the best for Jordan Crawford, but I also think he will struggle to outplay more athletic players.